If homosexuality is such a terrible sin, why is it not in the ten commandments?

Originally posted by Simplynoone
The word Fornication covers the sin of homosexuality ...and lesbianism .etc .

1) illicit sexual intercourse

a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.

b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18

c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

2) metaph. the worship of idols

a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols
www.blueletterbible.org...

Good info...

So why would an all knowing-all-powerful-all-present being create a creature (man/woman) that was CAPABLE of such acts -- but yet tell them that they are "sin"?

Was it a test?

If so, God in that context would seem to me as a sick, sick bastard. "Oh yeah, lets watch my little creation fight against it's making with my rules and see what turns out!"

No, it does not make logical sense.

But if your end goal is heaven... well why would any christian care. Your salvation does not hinge on ANYTHING a homo sexual does. Can you tell me in the bible where
it says if a homosexual doing anything will effect you in anyway?

If your goal is heaven let the sinners sin as they have always done even you sin) I assume homosexuals go to hell, regardless. The point of Christianity is that YOU form a relationship with JC, completely dependent from others actions. If we go deeper I think it safe to safe that divine powers decide the fate of the immortal soul.

So if you are not effected and your salvation has nothing to do with another's behavior
why bother giving half a hoot about someone else's business? It seems to me a whole lot of people want to mini gods.

Where in the bible does it say "you" have any business judging anyone. If christians are truly faithful they would Know to leave it up to god.

[edit on 24-12-2008 by The Bald Champion]

reply to post by MystikMushroom


Jam 1:12 Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God:
for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jam 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

Leviticus 13: If there is a man lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surly be put to death. their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

Originally posted by rcwj75 gays CANNOT reproduce...so gays CANNOT keep life going on earth.

So the reason GOD never put the rule on the 10 Commandments is because not even he saw this kind of behavior coming!

hmm I've been thinking about this one ..

and man.. i think you're wrong.

gather up a healthy group of gay and lesbians with multiple Phd.s in genetic biology, a multi-million dollar lab, and given a few years, I'm sure they could reproduce themselves quite efficiently.

you forgot that your abrahamic god gave us "brains" as well as "penises and vaginers"


I bet he didn't see THAT one comin'!!!

because he only "see"s a "certain amount".. right? not "EVERYTHING" ??

come on man..

-

[edit on 24-12-2008 by prevenge]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
reply to post by MystikMushroom

 

Jam 1:12 Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God:
for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jam 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

I appreciate the verses you have quoted here. However, if you are attempting to sum up homosexuality as being nothing more than sexual temptation that would be a gross underestimation of what we feel for each other in reality.

Hello

In my opinion, there are huge questions about the 10 commandements. Although i consider my self as a christian, i do have questions about the "authenticity" of them. No body can denny that since no one else was on the mountain with Moses, we could presume that he curved them himself. After all, he had all the time to do it. I think he stayed there for 7 full days but i'm not sure.
Second, i don't think that homosexuality is a "sin". It's just a choice. Choice that people make because they like it, or choice that nature gives through hormons etc. Since we have the brains and the right to use those brains, i don't think that homosexuality (if it's a choice by humans and not by nature) has nothing to do with religion.
After all, let us find a solution about all the other SERIOUS problems we have as human race and when those problems are solved, we can easilly think how to find a solution about homosexuallity.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
reply to post by MystikMushroom

 

Jam 1:12 Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God:
for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jam 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

So basically you agree that God is testing homosexuals, he created these human beings who find themselves attracted to the same sex so that they can resist the temptation to be gay and pretty much hide in the closet all their life, miserable in their non-flamboyant and butt loving ways.

Same goes for lesbians.
That makes PERFECT sense.

To put it bluntly, while I agree that homosexuality is not condoned in the Bible, I know that my God accepts and loves each and every one, because they are His children, and if God truly creates every being then He created them, and that my friend would mean that as a fellow human being, I will love and respect them.

Why don't people just get that?

Originally posted by t0ken
First of all we are humans not animals.We have enough intelligence to know where a penis is meant to go and what its purpose i.e reproduce.

I think you'll find that Humans ARE animals. We're not plants, are we?

I think you'll find that most animals know what they're supposed to do with their wangs as well.

In animals, especially my rabbits, the "homosexual" behaviour displayed is most likely to establish dominance as neither has been spayed making them somewhat aggressive and territorial. When they fight, one will get the upper hand and shag the crap out of the other one.

Animals the world over do it.

I notice you completely ignored my statement about the Humpbacks. They're very intelligent animals, yet they still engage in group homosexuality at certain times of the year.

Originally posted by t0ken
Second theres no SOLID scientific evidence to prove homosexuality is 'natural' in humans.

The fact it has been recorded since the dawn of recorded time is a good piece of evidence. The fact that whomsoever wrote the Bible felt it necessary to "ban" it shows that it was occuring in humanity prior to the Bible being written. Another example of "Government" (for want of a better word) trying to legislate morality.

There are two fairly solid pieces of evidence.

Originally posted by t0ken
Neither is there any evidence to prove that humans evolved from chimpz.Juz a loda bull crap theories.

No, there isn't. Do you know why? Because we didn't evolve from chimps. Anyone with even the most basic understanding of science and evolution knows this. You obviously don't. Another example of religious fools having an opinion on a matter they know feck all about.

Originally posted by t0ken
I rather stick to the God option.

You do that, if it makes you happy. I feel sorry for you though, being blinkered by religious nonsense. Even the Pope acknowledges evolution, only wacky American pseudo-churches preach against it and promote that the earth is only 6,000 years old and made by a schizophrenic God who doesn't know what he's doing from one verse to the next.

I respect you're right to religion, but if you're going to engage me in a scientific debate, I will rip your religious views apart with sound reasoning and logic. I know more about religion and science than you obviously do about science and religion.

reply to post by rcwj75

Actually, scientists has already created embryos from two female eggs.

reply to post by Simplynoone


This is a lie perpetuated by some Christian groups.

The original meaning of the word (in a sexual aspect) is voluntary sex between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman.In the Bible that was stretched to include adultery.

It wasn't until modern times that it was stretched even further to include homosexuality etc.

People have changed the meanings of words to suit their own ignorance and bigotry.



[edit on 24-12-2008 by DantesLost]

reply to post by asmeone2




the ten commandments cover this very well

The 10 commandments is not a list of the 10 most important coomandments. Keeping the Sabbath and respecting ones parents are listed in th10 commandments, and they are important, but there are 603 additional commandments in the Old testament as well. And homosexuality is listed as a sin.

Be happy it isn´t in the ten commandments..just look at the punishments!:

1st. Commandment, Exodus 20:3 “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”. Old Testament punishment - Deuteronomy 17:1-5 “And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heavens, which I have not commanded. Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing and shalt stone them with stones, till they die”. Deuteronomy 13:6-10, “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is of thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. Thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God." Exodus 22:20 “He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed”. New Testament punishment - Mark 16:16 “He that believeth not, shall be damned”.

2nd. Commandment, Exodus 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water below.” Old Testament punishment- Deuteronomy 27: 1 5 “Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image.”

3rd. Commandment, Exodus 20:7 “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain”. Old Testament punishment - Leviticus 24:16 “And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death”, New Testament punishment - Matthew 12:32 “Whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come”. Mark 3:29 - “He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgivness, but is in danger of eternal damnation”.

4th. Commandment, Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy”. Old Testament punishment - Exodus 31:15 “Whosoever shall work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death”. Numbers 15:32. “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath day…And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”

5th. Commandment, Exodus 20:12 “Honour thy father and thy mother”. Old Testament punishment - Exodus 21:15-17 “And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death”. More punishment - Exodus 21:17 “And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death”.

and here is the kicker!:

6th. Commandment, Exodus 20:13 “Thou shalt not kill”. Strangely enough this is a commandment despite all the punishments that require death in the New Testament and the Old Testament. How can thou not kill when thou is commanded to kill at the same time?


And to those who like to say that they dont follow the old testament:
Romans 1 :29-32 “Those filled with unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, hate for god, despite, proud, boasters, inventions of evil things, disobedience to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, unnatural affection, implacable or unmerciful nature: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death”.

So each christian debating here is worthy of death! and stop whispering too while you are at it!

[edit on 24-12-2008 by 152710914]

Excellent - Religious arguments about christianity on Christmas eve.

Lets see what happens during ramadan next...

Originally posted by asmeone2
If homosexuality is such a terrible sin, why is it not in the ten commandments?

Because the 10 Commandments were written by Moses who stole them from the Egyptian Book of the Dead almost word for word (except the keep holy the sabbath - the Egyptians didn't have that rule). The Egyptians didn't have that law in their Book of the Dead and therefore it didn't get pulled forward into the 10 Commandments.

Moses was a prince of Egypt and well schooled. He would have known the Egyptian Book of the Dead very well. THAT is where the 10 Commandments came from.

That 'no homosexual' stuff came from Romans for the Christians.

reply to post by NATIVO


Firstly I think you need to read this post.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Secondly, the bible says a lot of things. It describes homosexual acts as an abomination against nature. Homosexuality is found in nature because it is produced by nature, so it is natural by definition. The bible has it wrong on this count, incontrovertibly. It's known to happen with around 1500 species of animal "ranging from chimps to gut worms" (wikipedia) and that's just the ones we know of. The other thing is that it's not a fruitless act; there are many purposes of sex in nature and reproduction is just one of them, most of the rest are social functions.

It's natural, it's not uncommon, and it's not pointless. Why does the bible accuse it of being wrong when it isn't?!

I could sit here and respond over and over and over, just like many of you could but my mind isn't going to change, and neither is any of yours. So with that I will just leave this thread with this.

If you are living the homosexual lifestyle, thats your business, your choice, and I WILL NOT judge you for it. I do not agree with it, never will, but I would never put myself above you as if I know better, but I, just like you are intitled to my beliefs. So at the very least I hope all of you who are homosexuals do find love and happiness during your time on earth.

BUT....until two men can lay together and have a natural avenue to reproduce (i.e. putting a penis IN a vagina) I cannot accept that it is natural. Same way as two women cannot lay together and do ANYTHING to create life by themselves. Yes we can debate the work labs, science, etc can do to HELP them create life...yes we can talk about infirtle people not being able to reproduce, etc...but the bottom line for me is simple....whether you believe in GOD or science...you just CAN'T lay with the same sex and create life...thats fact.

Until the day comes where 2 men or 2 women can do something in the form of sex that allows them to knock each other up... I'm stayin right were I'm at...

MERRY X-MAS everyone....

[edit on 12/24/2008 by rcwj75]

thats a good question, im not GOD so i cant answer that
i know GOD dont like it cuz
well, HE said so and HE nuked a city cuz of it

reply to post by GRANDWORLDDRAMA


You mean S and G? Weren't they destroyed for adultery, rape and general wickedness?