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Occultism is not Satanism

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posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by missvicky
reply to post by saint4God
 

[...]Besides, King Samuel consulted a soceress who rsised up Daniel's spirit who in turn busted King Samuel for seeking her out!
Not to pick on you personally, but I've noticed that in these types of discussions, anytime a Christian enters in, the tone becomes argumentative rather than explorative. [...]

It was King Saul that asked the witch (from Endor I think) to raise the Prophet Samuel's spirit!
I should know,

BB,
Samuel




posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by missvicky
Oh, I thought the instruction against socercery came from God to the people. Sort of like "Thou shall not kill". If htere were no murderers, there would be no reason for the commandment.


It did, and exactly.


Originally posted by missvicky
Yes, I did stop there. Evidence that yes, people were doing it.


Doh, you missed the best part...and, there was a moral to the story.


Originally posted by missvicky
Yes, I am serious, I have read that and thought it an interesting observation. The older equal armed cross is a symbol of balance. The Christian cross is not in balance with the souhtern end being longer than the other three.


And therefore means war? You'll read about what's wrong with a Christian symbol but not the second half of what happened to King Saul? Mkay, we all have the right to selectively read, just don't expect the whole picture when doing so.

[edit on 22-12-2008 by saint4God]



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I do appologize, I did not see that you had already answered that.



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


He still strikes me a very arrogant man, even beyond his curtain, which I do not think is conducive to attaining enlightenment.



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by Aldolas
It was King Saul that asked the witch (from Endor I think) to raise the Prophet Samuel's spirit!
I should know,

BB,
Samuel


Yes yes! Tell the rest ^_^, sounds like people haven't heard this one before.



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by asmeone2


He still strikes me a very arrogant man, even beyond his curtain, which I do not think is conducive to attaining enlightenment.


Oh yeah. I dismissed his work a long time ago. But again, not because its "evil"...



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


Thanks Ravenshadow13. I don't usually participate in religous arguments. In my opinion none of it is proveable anyway, it's personal belief and experience. so it's ridiculous to argue. But to have a discussion of what's possible, or what are others experiencing, or trying new ideas or practices in order to grow as aperson, hey I'm your gal!



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by saint4God
 


Yes, you are right. I stand corrected. Thank you!



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 11:42 AM
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I always thought the christian cross came from the ankh. Somehting about newbirth or something??
The original Christian symbol was the fish and Jesus wasn't nailed to a cross, nor did he actually carry a cross, he carried one long log where he was nailed to and then the log was hung up(onto a wooden frame). and they didn't nail thruogh his hands (the nails would have ripped out) they nailed through his wrists.
All above knowledge was acquired during my time in a christian church and has not been researched by me!
If it's wrong, links not bullets please! xD xD xD

Sam



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 11:47 AM
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A good example of modern sorcery is Carlos Castaneda. Although decried as a "hoax" several times, the techniques taught have nothing whatsoever to do with worshipping deities, summoning demons or practicing divination or fortune telling.

Instead they teach of a way to relate to Infinity.



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by saint4God
 





Originally posted by missvicky
Yes, I did stop there. Evidence that yes, people were doing it.



Doh, you missed the best part...and, there was a moral to the story.



Originally posted by missvicky
Yes, I am serious, I have read that and thought it an interesting observation. The older equal armed cross is a symbol of balance. The Christian cross is not in balance with the souhtern end being longer than the other three.



And therefore means war? You'll read about what's wrong with a Christian symbol but not the second half of what happened to King Saul? Mkay, we all have the right to selectively read, just don't expect the whole picture when doing so.

--------------------

The subject at hand is not the moral to the story.

It means an expression of it's warlike nature.(Have you not heard of soldiers for christ? Have you not sung the songs?) It was not offered as a critisim of the symbol, as an observation of the symbol and compared the the symbol of the equal armed cross.



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by missvicky
 


Sorry that was meant t be a reply to Aldolas!



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by missvicky
 

There are 'soldiers for Christ' Soldiers for Islam and I'm sure if the occultists would be more organised I could point at 'soldiers for the Godess' (or similar!). Christianity itself is not a warlike religion!
I grew up a fundamentalist christian and although christians can be downright stubborn, they are (if practicing their religion correctly) the most loving people on earth!
And using occult techniques of symbolism on a christian symbol, is questionable to say the least!


BB,
Samuel



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 


oh and one more thing: I agree that Satanism is a by-product of Christianity and Occultism not.



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Cythraul
 
oh and one more thing: I agree that Satanism is a by-product of Christianity and Occultism not.
Sry for quoting entire qpost, this threads moving to fast:

Satnism as opposed to demonology. I Agree!



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by Aldolas
I always thought the christian cross came from the ankh. Somehting about newbirth or something??


The ankh was Egyptian, a symbol of life. The Christian cross did not come from the Ankh unless the Romans got the idea of crucifixion by looking at egyptian symbols.


Originally posted by Aldolas
The original Christian symbol was the fish


First Christian symbol was the cross. The fish came later when Christians were being persecuted since it was less known by the Roman authorities.

Icthus history


Originally posted by Aldolas
and Jesus wasn't nailed to a cross,


Yes he was.

"This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross." - Acts 2:23


Originally posted by Aldolas
nor did he actually carry a cross,


Yes he did.

"As they were going out, they met a man from Cyrene, named Simon, and they forced him to carry the cross." - Matthew 27:32

"So the soldiers took charge of Jesus. Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha)." - John 19:17

It does not say "beam" but beam is mentioned a few times elsewhere in the Bible when it doesn't have to do with the crucifixion.


Originally posted by Aldolas
and they didn't nail thruogh his hands (the nails would have ripped out) they nailed through his wrists.


Although this makes sense we don't have any definitive proof or texts. This only says:

"So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it." - John 20:25

Doesn't say hands or wrists.


Originally posted by Aldolas
All above knowledge was acquired during my time in a christian church and has not been researched by me!
If it's wrong, links not bullets please! xD xD xD

Sam


Sure thing.



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 12:05 PM
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Okay, for all concerned: I was sharing something I read about the Christian cross. The observation is not using occult practices on the symbol. It was someone's intertpretation of that symbol and I thought it was an interesting observation.
It was not an effort to derail this thread. It was not offered as critisim of the Christian cross. My apologies the the OP and to any who have misunderstood and taken offence.
The reply meant for Aldeross was where I was corrected in that it was King Saul etc.
Peace out.



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by missvicky
My apologies the the OP and to any who have misunderstood and taken offence.


no offense taken. In fact, this thread was moving so fast, I havent even had time to read it yet.



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by missvicky
The subject at hand is not the moral to the story.


It is, you were saying Christians themselves perform occult practices. I was demonstrating via your example that indeed when someone did so they paid a heavy price and were wrong in doing so.


Originally posted by missvicky
It means an expression of it's warlike nature.(Have you not heard of soldiers for christ? Have you not sung the songs?)


Well, let's see what the General orders then:

"But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you," - Matthew 5:44

"But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. " - Luke 6:35

"He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation." - Mark 16:15

I'll I can say to that is "Sir yes sir!"


Originally posted by missvicky
It was not offered as a critisim of the symbol, as an observation of the symbol and compared the the symbol of the equal armed cross.


"The Greek Cross appears on the national flag of Greece reflecting the country's long historical connection with Christianity. This cross has all fours members the same shape and form (crux quadrata) and was popular with Greek Christians who favoured symmetrical art." www.seiyaku.com...



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by saint4God
 

I know those texts, but it is (according to the argument) impossible for ANY human to actually carry a full size cross due to the sheer weight of the thing! If you've ever carried wood, you'll know what I mean! even a wooden log 6 inch in diameter and 7 foot long has got to be near impossible to carry.
But as I said, I haven't done the research. And yes I know that the Bible calls the construction a cross.
I heard that the cross only became a christian symbol after it became 'in' to be a christian. (Round about the same time as the Jewish-christian Sabbath mysteriously changed to sunday. Several hundred years a.D. And I won't budge on that one! I even held a well researched sermon on that subject many a year ago.) Because the early-christians were basically persecuted from day one.

But thereagain, I'm dragging the subject offtopic again!


Sam






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