Occultism is not Satanism

Originally posted by Skyfloating
...and for some of us there is no "beginning" and no "end"...

In that case too then, nothing would have existed before.

reply to post by Skyfloating


"Think about this: Why do some Christians more often talk about Satan and Evil than about Christ and God? Why do they talk much more about blame, shame, punishment, restriction, penalty, doom, anti-christ than about inspiration, hope, love, joy?"

This is such a generalization. There are a growing number of us Christians who have broken the bonds of judgemental religions than damn the non members of their own groups and focus on God and Christ and love for all humanity to the point of serving those who hate you.
And contrary to your apparent belief, I am not at all afraid of anything. I choose not to practice something that goes against my beliefs. That does not mean not to look into it. Only a fool would argue something that they have not looked int othemselves at least somewhat.

Now, as much as I would like to continue this, I have to go build a snow fort with my daughter. I'll check back later...

"Occult" simply means "Hidden"...but that isnt necessarily mutually exclusive from Satanic worship and practice which is also "hidden".

reply to post by tallcool1


Thats why I said some Christians. The word some being important here.

However...if I read how scared some people are of these supposedly "evil" practices, I really do have to wonder...

[edit on 28-12-2008 by Skyfloating]

This brings up a good point tallcool1. If the thread were named "We wish you a merry Christmas!" then I'd come on here and say "Merry Christmas!" but as it is, it's not an invitation to sit around wishing each other well. Rather, there's an authoritive (and ambigous) statement made as if it were absolute fact. That's asking for some exchange to Deny Ignorance according to ATS and am more than willing to help by presenting what I know. I do always wish everyone here the very best and believe this is the greatest community in which to discuss so many different topics. That being said, may love, hope and joy be with you all certainly.

Here's a good look at a Christian's heart

[edit on 22-12-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


Im one who was told, many times, by various people, of the evils lurking behind the curtain. "Do not go there!" I was warned. "Thats dangerous!" "Thats satanic!". It took a lot of courage to go there. To inspect closely.
And to find...nothing but a mild breeze.

Repeatedly making this experience, I recognize that Ive been lied to about the evils and dangers of various things.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Meh - occultism may not be "evil", but it's not exactly real either. If people want to run around worshiping elves and fairies, I suppose that's their right but that doesn't make it any less stupid.

reply to post by Skyfloating


"Think about this: Why do some Christians more often talk about Satan and Evil than about Christ and God? Why do they talk much more about blame, shame, punishment, restriction, penalty, doom, anti-christ than about inspiration, hope, love, joy? "

I dont know. none of the "christians" I talk with are doom and gloom- they are mostly positive and do have warning, and some mention of satan, but we talk more about the hope, and the promise of Christ. I completely agree with you, how some are like that, but I choose no religion, I choose to be "Christ Like" as much as possible, for we all fall short. I also choose not to judge and to be open minded, that is why I would like to try some meditation maybe you can U2U me some info I can start with.

Nice Thread.

Though I do agree with you SkyFloating on your realization that Occultism doesn't have to mean Satanism, Occultism still can be (As others have pointed out) and because of this, practicing Occult "things" which don't have the word "Satan" on it, doesn't mean its not part of the dark side. Meditation and Yoga sounds good, but it CAN be a very evil force. I have meditated for years and know just about every yoga that is given to the public as well as those Yogas that are "Occult." (Asanas can also lead to dark forces, though in the western mind, Asanas are everything in "Yoga", they are actually the very base and not as important in Yoga as Charlatans claim.) Besides this, I have gone very far into the "Occult," from studying works from Blavatsky, Crowley, LEVI, and even some modern works from Dion, as well as many random other works. These were great mind openers, but sometimes an open mind can lead to the dark side.

I can't stress it enough that Yoga and Meditation or reaching higher levels of your self, which can actually be lower parts of your self through such practices(Yoga, Meditation), CAN very well lead to the dark side. For one, you don't know the agenda of higher forces. Second, Your Karma dictates how you go through these practices and if you have Bad Karma, Meditation will open your mind to a dark past that can twist your soul. Though I am a Luciferian (I don't worship Lucifer, I worship Light), I have to agree with some of the Christians here who are warning you or any others who view the Occult as something to practice. Unless your willing to Martyr your soul, I would stay away.

Think about this. What does Yoga do? What does meditation do? It improves YOU. It gives YOU personal GAIN. Being so, What do Satanists worship? Things that give them Personal GAIN. Modern Satanists have twisted this ideology into the belief that one should do Whatever it takes for personal gain.(Anton's Bible is not True Satanism), from what it use to be when Blavatsky and Levi preached Satanism in "Secret." The Satanism of old led to true Modern Satanic cults like Wicca and Thelma, which are not evil. "Do as you wish but harm none." Do What Thou Will, Shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law." It is personal gain. You may be practicing Satanism, but under a different name.

On the other "HAND", The Path is that of sacrifice. Humility is name of the game. Meditation may clear your mind and open pathways, but Humility does this much better. Humility is the ultimate occult practice. You may disagree, but experience speaks louder than words. This is why Christ or Lucifer is the highest spiritual being. Fearless. Full of Humility. Father of Understanding. UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.

The Bible is full of Occult meanings. If you can't understand this, its because you aren't too deep (OOBE is beginning occult experience, it can go very far) into the Occult to see them. They are hidden and the Bible is a treasure for Occultists. I can give you only one example because occultists have to find out for their selves, not just read what others have written. (This is why Crowley wrote in code).

"Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." John 7:38

Possibly the most important thing in the bible to understand. What is Eternal Life. LIVING Water WITHIN. Crowley spoke of this water many times in metaphor. The Hindus spoke of this water many times as fire. Some call it Liquid Fire. Some call it Electric Fire. But Throughout history, its mainly known as the Serpent(s). Jesus Christ Lord of Serpents, Lord Voldemort , Lord Krishna, Lord Buddha, Lord Thoth. Serpents that Travel up your spine and through your body. How are they awoken? Dark side of Sex. Christ, the greatest Satyr alive, But I trully mean Krishna, which Trully means King of Babylon. His Serpent Bride, The Scarlet Woman.

The Lightest Being is the Darkest. Right In two... POLARIZING.

The Lord is Cuming! SO BE IT!

Originally posted by AKARonco
I would like to try some meditation maybe you can U2U me some info I can start with.

There are plenty of Meditation threads here on ATS. Check them out.

This threasd is so death metal.

Originally posted by saint4God
There's no evidence that it did not exist beyond 40,000, yet we have something to say that it did. Sorry, neither occultism nor any other religion began before in the beginning.

Earlier you asked for my source on Occultism being older than the Bible. Now I'm asking for your source on the Bible existing for 40,000 years. To say "there's no evidence it didn't" would be acceptable, except that you would not have accepted such an answer from me. So, for the sake of consistency, would you care to provide your source?

For the record, I actually believe that the Bible is based on earlier Pagan traditions, myths and wisdoms so in that sense it can be said that the information contained within the Bible has existed in some form for longer than Judaism has.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
...and for some of us there is no "beginning" and no "end"...

Absolutely!

I wear an ancient, universal symbol of cyclicality around my neck:

Open question: if we can agree that Occultism does not necessarily equal Satanism, we can define Occult as Hidden, we can also agree that Occultism isn't for everyone; then what is Satanism?

reply to post by Cythraul


The "Ouroboros" or however its spelled. I was almost going to post one here but then I thought the serpent may offend some

Originally posted by missvicky
what is Satanism?

In what sense? The most serious Luciferian currents I know of would absolutely oppose the activities of the NWO, for example. There are as many varying takes on Satanism as there are takes on the Bible, if not more.

Satanism can be Occultic, but not necessarily. So some Satanism is Occultic, but not all Occultism is Satanic.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
The "Ouroboros" or however its spelled. I was almost going to post one here but then I thought the serpent may offend some

Haha, yes. Or Jormungandr - the Midgard Serpent, or World Serpent, or Rainbow Serpent. As you well know Skyfloating, it's perhaps the most universal symbol we know of and that's why I choose to wear it.

Originally posted by crmanager
You seek higher power.
You seek to become one with the Universe.
You seek passage to a higher plane.
You seek peace through meditation.

Sounds like any Sunday at a Christian church.

Except that churches never actually accomplish those things, they just promise things like them. Unless churches where you live are so much different than the ones here?

For example, how do you "become one with the Universe" at church? Or what does church give you, that allows you to do this? An ill-defined word like "grace"? I never got anything out of any of it anyway, but I have definitely gotten a lot out of more illumined teachings and philosophies that are completely non-religious.

Originally posted by missvicky
Open question: if we can agree that Occultism does not necessarily equal Satanism, we can define Occult as Hidden, we can also agree that Occultism isn't for everyone; then what is Satanism?

Opinion:

Primarily its the antithesis of Christianity, which takes many, many forms.

Unfortunately some kids have BECOME the evil image created by Christianity.

Then some use it to mask crime.

Then there's others like LaVeys "Church of Satan" which is nothing more than one mans ego-trip/philosophy.

And the list goes on...

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Skyfloating
...and for some of us there is no "beginning" and no "end"...

In that case too then, nothing would have existed before.

There is no "before."

That image of the infinity symbol is another example. Where does it begin, and where does it end?

You can arbitrarily claim a beginning or end but really it all runs together and supports itself in a beautiful yet simple form. Those kinds of forms happen to be very common in physics. Go figure.

Seems to me at least, that the occult and satanism are pretty much whatever the the whole god/jesus based religion system leaders deem that they don't like.

Its akin to how we might tell a small child 'no, that's bad' as a generic admonishment.

The phrasing itself lends to interpretation. I'm sure there's passages in the bible about it. Now, consider for a moment what the words mean when taken literally. If occult means hidden, shrouded, etc etc, can it be a general warning about hidden agendas, closed door meetings, or just in general not being open about things?

One other view if talking religious versions of occult practices, could also become "Do not lock yourself away and worship in private". In general, it seems a lot of this god worship stuff is a religion 'of the people' and seems to promote or encourage a group effort, mentality, etc. "The Flock" as it were. Could it be an ancient version of saying "Hey, don't be a stranger, eh?"

Just throwing that out there as some food for thought.