what Proof would convince the entire world that Aliens are visiting this planet ?

Originally posted by easynow
now your comparing apples to oranges wich isn't the same thing , nice try

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Your argument applies to both fairies and UFOs - and, in fact, to everything we don't yet have proof for. Aliens and fairies are, of course, different. But in each case your argument can be used in exactly the same way. Whether or not aliens exist, your argument was absurd.

Originally posted by easynow
sure you could put a Zero in the equation but it would not be realistic.

What equation? First, you said it was mathematically impossible that all sightings of aliens could be hoaxes, delusions or mistakes. Now you're talking about equations. And then begging the question. It is perfectly possible that no sighting is genuine; any suggestion that this would be unrealistic is just your baseless opinion. Where did the mathematical certainty disappear to?

Originally posted by easynow
most of the 7 billion people on this planet are not going to believe until there is a mass landing or an Alien body to display for everyone to see.

what part of that don't you understand ?

Huh? I said I wanted evidence for which the existence of aliens was the best explanation. That would include a verified alien body or a mass landing, wouldn't it? It might also include widespread acknowledgements from existing officials.

However, I also think the evidence could be substantially less than that and still raise (certainly my) interest. The key is for the evidence to be best explained by aliens.

It is actually the same standard of evidence that people - even you - expect for pretty much everything else they believe in.

[edit on 23-12-2008 by damagedoor]

reply to post by damagedoor


no you are wrong.

humans exist....it's a fact we are intelligent beings and when we look for life in outer space are we going to look for fairies ?

no , that argument is absurd.

and as absurd as it is i will admit that nobody will believe in fairies unless there was one to examine or a mass landing of their fairy ships

so yea i will agree with you that it is the same point but it is still comparing apples to oranges.


and yes you need an equation to shows the mathematical impossibility that all reports are false so whats your point ?


i am glad you agree the Alien body (alive or dead) or a mass landing will be what it takes. however the things you mentioned in your first post such as photos and goverment officials making statements may convince you but it will not convince everyone. that is the whole point here.





[edit on 23-12-2008 by easynow]

Originally posted by easynow
no you are wrong.

humans exist....it's a fact we are intelligent beings and when we look for life in outer space are we going to look for fairies ?

no , that argument is absurd.

and as absurd as it is i will admit that nobody will believe in fairies unless there was one to examine or a mass landing of their fairy ships

so yea i will agree with you that it is the same point but it is still comparing apples to oranges.

It's a fairly simple logical point that if you substitute equally true, identically-phrased premises into an argument and the conclusion is false then the original argument isn't valid. It is what it is, however, and there's no need for us to continue.

and yes you need an equation to shows the mathematical impossibility that all reports are false so whats your point ?

My point is you said it was a mathematical impossibility, and now you say you need an equation to prove that. So: please provide the equation that you have. Back up your assertion.

reply to post by damagedoor


no there is no need to continue because you want to change the subject to Oranges when we were talking about Apples. it's not the same thing and you know it and i am not going to keep replying to that nonsense.

and no i have not worked out an equation to post, but if you believe that every single UFO/Alien report is a false alarm then there is definitely no reason to continue and that further proves my point about skeptics.



[edit on 23-12-2008 by easynow]

Nothing will convince someone that does not want to see. Thousands of reports, thousands of pictures, thousands of videos, thousands of books (not all of them credible or truthful) and yet there are people that negate the existence of intelligent life outside our planet.

Nothing will ever be enough.

And for those that think that proof enough is to see a craft land on the White House lawn, you will be waiting for the rest of your life, it will never happen.

reply to post by easynow


"The President elect Obama, shaking hands with one of them while sharing a kosher meal with white Zinfendel........ Oh!! And a little bit of "POOH" for DNA testing."

Had to say it, once it crosses this mind, and it makes me laugh, well, "You just got to share Man!!!

Originally posted by damagedoor
I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Your argument applies to both fairies and UFOs - and, in fact, to everything we don't yet have proof for. Aliens and fairies are, of course, different. But in each case your argument can be used in exactly the same way. Whether or not aliens exist, your argument was absurd.

How do you know aliens and fairies are different? Can you show us solid proof to back up your claims or are you simply rellying on popular verdict?

According to the Krill Papers earth is being visited by many alien species from different planes of existance. That means extra-terrestial(outside earth), ultra-terrestial(within earth such as reptillians) and inter-dimensional. The "faires" you seem to ridicule(aka ghosts) imply inter-dimensional existance.

Originally posted by damagedoor
What equation? First, you said it was mathematically impossible that all sightings of aliens could be hoaxes, delusions or mistakes. Now you're talking about equations. And then begging the question. It is perfectly possible that no sighting is genuine; any suggestion that this would be unrealistic is just your baseless opinion. Where did the mathematical certainty disappear to?

So if the odds of aliens existing to not existing are 10 million to 1 could we not say for all practical purposes that aliens do exist and are visiting us in ufos?

Originally posted by damagedoor
Huh? I said I wanted evidence for which the existence of aliens was the best explanation. That would include a verified alien body or a mass landing, wouldn't it? It might also include widespread acknowledgements from existing officials.

Officials HAVE SPOKEN! Just visit the disclosure project website.

As for aliens bodies I would take a trip to wright-patterson afb in ohio but unfortunately I doubt you will see anything unless you have the proper clearance.

Originally posted by damagedoor
However, I also think the evidence could be substantially less than that and still raise (certainly my) interest. The key is for the evidence to be best explained by aliens.

It is actually the same standard of evidence that people - even you - expect for pretty much everything else they believe in.
[edit on 23-12-2008 by damagedoor]

You want the aliens to disclose everything? Haha thats funny!

Hey, I'm a reasonable person. I don't necessarily have to see something to be convinced that it exists. I've never personally seen the Eiffel Tower, but I'm pretty sure it exists.

So all anybody has to do is present the same degree of evidence to me of the existence of aliens that they would to convince me that the Eiffel Tower exists. How simple is that?

* Multiple photos/videos of the same thing from different people, none of whom are anonymous.
* An "alien" artifact (or alien) proven to be directly associated with those photographed events.
* Public confirmation that the artifact/alien is actually alien by multiple, credible, unbiased experts, and civic leaders like the President.
* The chance, if I really wanted to, to touch the thing itself. I don't need to touch it, but I need to be able to touch it, and not to have vanished into thin air like a magician's trick, or Jesus.

This isn't a court of law, where we can all stipulate that something like a murder or a gun exists. We need a bit better evidence than you need in court. Is that too much to ask to confirm the reality of something that's existence is in dispute?

I don't think so.

reply to post by Nohup


Very interesting,

the Eiffel Tower exists.

That gave me an great idea.
We should wish for the Aliens to land by, near the Eiffel Tower.
The French would not hurt them.
What proof would convince the entire world that Aliens are visiting this planet ?
That would be communication at the Tower in France.

Only because Nohup gave me the idea.
Otherwise I'm looking for someone to take a bet within a time
frame before I see Jesus.
Who lived on Earth and is not in another dimension but lets not
get into that but let me say merry Xmas to all ATS and any Alien
out there.

But like I say I feel direction should be concentrated in the direction
of the Illuminati cause what are the odds abductions and landing will
stop and a meeting occurs when just as good evidence says the
Illuminati hold the cards without the slightest intention of training bugs
to fly a craft to France.

So we have Tower people, at least one me, and non Tower people.

reply to post by easynow


There is a web site that "add's up" when all claims are checked to the others, and gives examples of what the aliens are, some of what they are doing here, and what they are about. Sounds real as it claims to be, and fact is stranger than fiction. I think no one wants to relate to it because it brings religion and science back to the same path.
You may delete this paragraph is you want to. It is at www.majormarvels.com

reply to post by Nohup


thanks Nohup for your input but i am afraid taking pictures of the Eiffel Tower and catching a car accident on camera are two different things.

from what we know so far UFO's don't usually stick around for celebrity pictures so you may be disappointed in the long run, sorry

Alien artifacts will not convince the entire world no matter who confirms it or announces it. sorry

on a brighter side...the Aliens could land and you would be able to touch one ? or at least have the opportunity ?

Hello EasyNow!!
Sorry for my burst of what I thought was funny earlier, was battling people on religion!!
"But now I am back to properly address your thread."

As I had said in other similar posts, the fact that I have had a "Personal" experience, and have seen thing's beyond explanation in the skies, I therefore can acknowledge that there "IS" something to the "Alien/UFO" sightings and events, but then again, I can only "OWN" the sighting for self acknowledgement purposes. Then again, if I find someone with the same incident of seeing something other worldly, it tends that person and myself to be able to communicate on a "LEVEL" playing field of explanations and experience. Err go the ability t be Philosophical, theoretical and metaphysical on the same consciousness of acceptance.
Where as, if I were to try and give an explanation of my experience to an individual that sees these events as a form of some kind "Delusional" concept, for lack of a better word, my intentions and my meaning of the explanation becomes distorted and soon becomes a product of ridicule and rejection from societal expectations as a liar or a "Hoaxer" of the event even taking place. There for, it becomes redundant and somewhat hard for me to convect such events openly and freely without the thought of the possibility being judged as I had said above "Liar/ Hoaxer, or Delusional". And could be all of the above combined as one analogy, depending on the open mindedness capabilities of the "Skeptical" listener.

WE, as a society world wide, have had evidences brought forth and and conceivably authenticated as a "Verifiable" UFO encounter/ Photo or video" of such events, even the military, from around the world have testified to that, and that, by all means towards the "Skepticism's" of the naysayers, should be enough to at least accept that the UFO phenomenon is anything but "Delusional and unrealistic" which is where the line gets blurred between what our life's reality is and what the Skeptics reality is for themselves. IF we could of been born with the abilities to produced a UFO on command, it would probably be the only slap in the face that would allow them to see "For themselves" that these events are valid and have happened for literally compounded millenium.

For some of the rebuttals and kind of "Half-hearted" arguments of this taking place in our world of "Reality" it is somewhat harder to fathom than , lets say, "Return of Christ" which is a likely scenario if you put the two up against each other for debate.

Philosophy, Theology are a form of a state of Metaphysical acceptance, they are by all means used to interpret one another, but the one thing that Metaphysical conclusions have on the other two is "Perception and definition of something being a tree or an Unreality." The people can touch, smell and conclude the tree is a tree, but if the tree had been cut down and explained by an older generation to a much younger audience, the explanation would be futile for the basis of the tree no longer existing and therefore allowing doubt that the tree ever existed, and as time goes by with more and more tales of the no longer existing tree, it becomes Myth. Suddenly someone of the relatives of the past who had seen the tree discovers the picture of the tree, then the argument turns to the tree being of a different area all together. And thus , people of such skepticism's are in denial the tree ever existed, no matter how much is put out there for being factual and evident to the past with it being correspondent to the philosophies past down about the tree, and the theology becomes the arguing point of it ever being there and thus the loss of the Metaphysical standards that the tree did in fact truly and undeniably exist, at one point.

I hope you guy's understood my points typed above, especially the UFO buffs and believers, it is kind of a vicious cycle of both accepted and unacceptable probabilities of such thing's being "Real" and very important to talk about. We as a species will eventually realise that all we really have in our true futures is ourselves, with the likeliness of there being visitors from other worlds and Galaxies that could be as interested in finding us as much as we are interested in our way of thinking "Beyond the Stars of visual sight."

Great thread easynow, Starred and flagged.

PS.
Sometimes this particular topic gets very old, and all one that has an experience of such thing's of personal reality is to share the fantastically unbelievable to the not so estranged and not so unbelievable realms of thought. Guess you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink hypothesis is rather relevant and exists when it comes to the out of ordinary explanations of such "Great" and "Wonderful" experiences, "Why so adamant on my part?" Because , once an event happens to you that is so profound and earth shattering it remains imprinted on your every day thoughts, you never need evidence or question such things ever again.

Thanks all, and "Happy Holidays!!"

Denying Ignorance is Sooooo fun!!!LOL

reply to post by Allred5923


thank you Allred5923

great post my friend, you and i definitely have things in common that other people cannot even imagine.i am sure you will agree that it's quite interesting to be on the outside of the fishtank looking in and seeing the the skeptical circus being played out on a daily basis when it comes to this subject.

funny that you mentioned sharing your explanations of your experience with non believers in your post because i was just thinking about the very same thing a little while ago. i was going to say something in another thread about my experience and i didn't do it because of the very same reasons you acknowledged , it will be distorted and become a product of ridicule and then you are percieved as a crazy person who just imagined something and thinks it's real.

so in a way it's kinda of a blessing to have the knowledge we both share but it can also be sorta of a burden not to be able to talk about it. i am sure you know what i mean. sometimes it can get frustrating because you want other people to understand what happened to you in an effort to help them understand or to somehow move ufology to the next step by educating others, but there is still too big of a wall to break down it seems.

"Why so adamant on my part?" Because , once an event happens to you that is so profound and earth shattering it remains imprinted on your every day thoughts, you never need evidence or question such things ever again.

well said my friend, well said...



thank you for sharing your tree analogy story with me i really enjoyed it and it makes perfect sense to me. it might be something like...absence of evidence is not evidence of absence ?

thanks again and you have a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year !

reply to post by easynow


I am just glad, that you as the OP of the thread, understands what the "Mental" is as well.
I got a bit winded and over explanation with my analogy of "Why I don't need such evidences" to be more accredited for what I was trying to get across to the readers of this thread, it is important and it is necessary to have someone to talk of these thing's, just seems more beneficial for one to speak of things of this nature to someone who has had similar and coexisting emotions to the same peculiar events, even if they are far from one another.

As you had said, "UFOs Exist." and that is cut and dry as far as I am concerned, but to have skeptics and naysayers to make the event even more troublesome to speak of? Well, that's just not good for anyone with such experiences. Not only that, it is relatively easy to eventually catch a hoaxer in a tall tale, but ones who have had there "Mental Realities" shaken to the core, those are the ones I like sharing with, err go my communication to your thread and you.

And by the way, "You can U2U me anytime with your story of events for your sighting, would be nice though if "ALL" of us become visible together."
After I had shared my story, there were a couple of taunters, but for the most part, it was either read over and ignored, or was appreciated and compared.

In America you dont need proof, it simply has to come out of the television from one of the major news stations and 95% of the people will believe it.

sad but true.

Originally posted by easynow
what would be absolute undeniable proof that would convince the almost seven billion people on this planet that Aliens are visiting us ?

Simple

A full scale REAL invasion...

I guarantee you even the most remotest Pygmy in the Amazon jungle would get the message



I am pretty confident nothing short of that would do it.

Even then... I should allow 1% in my theory for some here at ATS


.

[edit on 23-12-2008 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon


Hey Zorgon,
Your post holds water as far as I am concerned, but this part:

Even then... I should allow 1% in my theory for some here at ATS

That was just too easy for you!!!
You definitely know your margins, don't you!!

And by the way, "Happy ---fill in the blank---!!" I want to be so politically and socially correct, it stinks!!!

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by easynow
what would be absolute undeniable proof that would convince the almost seven billion people on this planet that Aliens are visiting us ?

Simple

A full scale REAL invasion...

I guarantee you even the most remotest Pygmy in the Amazon jungle would get the message

I am pretty confident nothing short of that would do it.

Even then... I should allow 1% in my theory for some here at ATS

.

[edit on 23-12-2008 by zorgon]

thank you Zorgon

great minds think alike i see but are you trying to tell me that a Pygmy in the Amazon jungle is smarter than the 1% of some here on ATS ?

well i guess time will tell for the mass invasion and until then we can keep discussing the evidence and prepare for that eventuality. can you imagine the look on some of these people faces if it did happen ?

you have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year Zorgon

There may be aliens out there, even among us, but you wouldn't know it by weighing the evidence that's accumulated over the better part of a century.

I wouldn't mind an explanation why with thousands of sightings, close encounters, people being whisked away, people being visited and given implants, and on and on, and on - why we have nothing solid and unquestionable.

The fact that thousands of alien contact experiences have only produced endless amounts of sizzle - but no steak, must mean something.

It's possible aliens are visiting us. It's also possible, and it seems infinitely more likely, that they aren't.

reply to post by mmiichael



thanks for your input but Aliens are not just gonna sling evidence all over the place for you to examine sorry

i think your steak will be served up when their is a mass landing so how do you want that rare, medium or well done ?