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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 06:14 AM by IsaacKoi
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Section 8.1 : Google searches for government documents
I’ll give an outline below (in Section 8.2) of some sources of government 9/11 documents. However, the specific links change fairly frequently so I
think it is probably more useful to start by referring to a couple of useful Google searches.
There are a few tricks that can be used when using Google. Instead of simply searching all websites for a particular term, it is possible to limit
the try to limit the search to websites operated by Government agencies. Most websites operated by Government agencies in the USA include “.gov”
or “.mil” in their url. A Google search can be limited to such websites by including “inurl:mil” or “inurl:gov” within a Google search,
e.g. searching for “inurl:gov 911” or
“inurl:mil 911”.
More keywords can be added if you are looking for documents referring to a particular individual or location etc.
However, a glance at the Google search results above will show that they include non-government websites that include “gov” or “mil” in their
descriptions.
Slightly better is a Google search which seeks results which end with “.gov” or “.mil”. Such a search can be performed by limiting the
search to results from websites with any address ending in “.mil” or “.gov”. This can be done by including “site:*.mil” or
“site:*.gov” within the Google search, e.g. searching for “site:*.gov
9/11” or “ site:*.mil 9/11”.
The same method can be adapted to search for 9/11 documents generated by government agencies outside the USA.
This webpage provides a helpful list of the Internet domain suffix for a long list of
different countries. This helps if you want to do a search for 9/11 documents from an individual country. For example, for material from British
military agencies (including the British Ministry of Defence) do a Google
search for “site:*.mod.uk”, but most of the results found in this way relate to discussion of the political and security implications of
9/11 rather than the events of that day itself.
If you are only interested in documents originating from Government agencies in the USA, a more efficient and effective method is to use
the Google “Government Sites” search function at this webpage. I haven’t seen anyone discuss this
Google search function, but it is quite useful. See, for example, the results for a search for “9/11” performed using the “Search Government
Sites” button on that webpage for
“9/11”.
[edit on 19-12-2008 by IsaacKoi]
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 06:15 AM by IsaacKoi
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Section 8.2 : Some sources for government 9/11 documents
While UFO websites fairly frequently cite, or exhibit, numerous Government documents it is relatively rare for 9/11 conspiracy theory websites to do
the same.
Similarly, while the FOIA (Freedom Of Information Act) websites of quite a few Government agencies include sections relating to UFO documents (due to
the number of requests made in relation to such documents), it is relatively rare for government FOIA websites to have separate sections for 9/11
documents.
However, there are a few websites that include interesting collections of documents. I’ll briefly highlight below some of the relevant webpages:
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 06:15 AM by IsaacKoi
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Section 8.3 : Some specific frequently discussed 9/11 documents
I realize that there is a considerable amount of documentation at the above links. Furthermore, the collections of documents at those websites are far
from complete. It may therefore be helpful if I highlight some of the particularly interesting documents and reports generated by, or funded by,
various Government agencies in relation to 9/11.
I will include below details of a few of the documents:
(a) most frequently discussed on “truther” websites and in 9/11 conspiracy books, and
(b) most frequently discussed in mainstream books about the 9/11 attacks.
There is surprisingly limited overlap between the document in categories (a) and (b) above. This cannot be explained merely on the basis of any
alleged reluctance of mainstream authors and the mainstream media to address facts inconsistent with the official story. While some documents heavily
relied upon by conspiracy theorists are largely ignored in mainstream books (e.g. the Operation Northwoods document referred to below), conspiracy
theorists appear to ignore many documents that mainstream books place considerable emphasis upon (e.g. the Presidential Daily Briefs referred to
below).
- 1962 – Operation Northwoods documents
Various documents were produced in 1962 relating to the possibility of staging various incidents “to give genuine appearance of being done by
hostile Cuban forces” as a pretext for military intervention by the USA (commonly referred to as “Operation Northwoods” or “Northwoods”).
There is a useful Wikipedia page in relation to Operation Northwoods.
The documents themselves can be found can downloaded from this page on the National Security Archive
website, specifically from this link. Particularly significant are page 5
of 15 and pages 13-14 of 15 (being pages 2 and 10-11 of a memorandum for the secretary of defense dated 13 March 1962).
The Operation Northwoods documents are almost certainly the documents most frequently discussed on truther/conspiracy websites in relation to 9/11.
They are discussed far more often than, say, the 1st August 2001 Presidential Daily Brief discussed below. Indeed, they are probably discussed more
often than the 9/11 Commission Report itself. However, these documents are very rarely 9/11 in mainstream books on the subject, apparently being
considered obviously irrelevant.
For example, threads simply on the ATS discussion forum relating to the Operation Northwoods documents include the following:
- The Northwoods Government Terrorism Plan Included Blaming Foreign Enemies for Space
Disasters. , started on 2 February 2003.
- Islamic Jihad or another Operation Northwoods, started on 10 July 2003.
- The Northwoods Documents, started on 8 September 2003.
Operation Northwoods: Creating the Pretext for War, started on 14 November 2003.
- Proof US Government Could Harm Americans, started on 2 April 2004.
Operation Northwoods, started on 18 June 2004.
- Operation Northwoods= Operation Iraqi Freedom?????, started on 15 August 2004.
- 1960's: Military planned attacks in US to create support for Cuba war (from
ATSNN), started on 4 March 2005.
- ATS: Project Northwoods. America's plan to attack America., started on 8 January
2006.
- ATS.C: 2 out of 3 Amigos: Operation Northwood, started on 14 January 2006.
JFK planned 9/11? , started on 17 June 2006.
No Killing of American Citizens in Northwoods Documents, started on 11 November
2006.
ABC news uncovers "operation northwoods" and why IMO, started on 29 May 2007.
- Operation Northwoods: US Planned Fake Terror Attacks On Citizens To Create Support For
Cuban War, started on 13 June 2008.
The Operation Northwoods documents are discussed on the websites of several skeptics, including
here and here. They are
also discussed by Mark Roberts in “9-11 Loose Change Second Edition Viewer Guide” (in his comments upon a transcript of the Loose Change video) at
this link.
- September 2000 - PNAC’s Rebuilding America’s Defenses
Almost as frequently discussed on truther/conspiracy websites is the publication “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” by the Project for a New
American Century (PNAC). As with the Operation Northwoods documents, it is extremely rare for this publication to be mentioned in mainstream books
about 9/11.
PNAC’s “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” can be found on numerous websites, including
here.
- 25 January 2001 - Richard Clarke Memo
Frequently discussed in mainstream material relating to 9/11, but raised relatively rarely in truther/conspiracy discussions, are various memos by
senior counter-terrorism official Richard Clarke, including his memo dated 25 January 2001
in which he stated “We urgently need . . . a Principals level review on the al Qida network”.
An image of relevant document is available online on this page of the National
Security Archive website. That website also includes a webpage which is a
useful source in relation to that document.
- 10 July 2001 - The Phoenix memo
A memo (commonly referred to as “the Phoenix memo”) written by an FBI agent in Phoenix on 10 July 2001 raising serious concerns about Middle
Eastern men attending U.S. flight schools.
Images of the complete Phoenix memo can be found online on various websites, including on the
useful Memory Hole website. This document is briefly discussed in the 9/11 Commission’s Report and is also discussed in
a discussion thread on ATS.
- 1 August 2001 - Presidential Daily Briefing for George W. Bush
There are few documents which are more frequently discussed in mainstream books about 9/11 than the Presidential Daily Briefs (“PDBs”) which
provided written summaries of intelligence matters for the President on a daily basis. These documents have been considered by mainstream researchers
and investigators to learning lessons from the events of 9/11. Mainstream books dwell on the difficulties that the 9/11 Commission faced in obtaining
relevant PDBs and issues raised by the release of PDBs.
However, these documents are discussed relatively rarely on truther/conspiracy websites or in truther books about 9/11. The relatively rare
discussions of these documents in such books are often highly inaccurate.
The most famous (or infamous) example of such PDBs is one dated 1 August 2001, which can be found on
this page of the National Security Archive website. That PDB contained a
section entitled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US” and is discussed on the National Security Archive website
on this page.
- 11 September 2001 - Air-Ground Transcripts of hijacked flight recordings from 9/11/2001 and other National Transportation Safety Board
(NTSB) transcripts and reports relating to 9/11 can be found on this page of the National
Security Archive website. That website also contains a webpage giving links to
various FAA documents relating to 9/11
[edit on 19-12-2008 by IsaacKoi]
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 06:16 AM by IsaacKoi
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- 26 October 2001 : The Patriot Act
The controversial Patriot Act was signed into law by President George W Bush on 26 October 2001. The
full text of the Patriot Act can be found
online here.
The Act is discussed in an entry on Wikipedia. The USA PATRIOT Act, commonly known as the
“Patriot” act, is an Act of Congress that United States President George W. Bush signed into law on October 26, 2001. The acronym stands for
"Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001" (Public Law Pub.L.
107-56).
- May 2002 - FEMA Report
The report by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) into various issues relating to 9/11 (entitled “World Trade Center Building Performance
Study : Data Collection, Preliminary observations, and recommendations”) can be found online
here.
- December 2002 - Congressional Report: Joint Inquiry
The various sections of the lengthy and controversial Congressional Report into various issues relating to 9/11 (i.e. the “Joint Inquiry into
Intelligence Community Activities before and after the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001”) can be viewed online on various websites, including
the official GPO website and several independent websites (e.g.
this one.
The full report can also be downloaded in PDF format as a single file from vaious websites, including from
this page on the official GPO website and
from this link on The Memory Hole website.
- January 2003 - The Pentagon Building Performance Report
The report of the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) entitled The Pentagon Building
Performance Report can be found online here. It includes details of “the
response of the structure to the crash”.
This report was clearly thought to be of considerable significance in addressing 9/11 conspiracy theories by the editors of Populars Mechanics’ book
“Debunking 9/11 Myths” (2006), since there are relatively lengthy extracts of the report at pages 135-153 (in Appendix C) of the Hearst Books, New
York softcover edition.
- 2004 - The 911 Commission Report
The controversial 9/11 Commission Report (i.e. the final report of the “National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States”
represents the most in-depth and wide ranging official investigation to date into the events of 9/11. The full report can be found online free on
various websites in various formats, including from the official 9/11 Commission website.
The official 9/11 Commission website also includes a section devoted to various documents prepared by members of the Commission’s staff to assist
the Commissioners, i.e. the “staff statements”. These documents received
(in general) extremely complimentary comments in the media at the time of the release and they provide a very useful resource. Some of them address
certain 9/11 conspiracy theories in more detail than the final report, e.g. the 911 Commission Monograph on 911 and Terrorist Travel includes a
relatively lengthy section entitled “The Saudi Flights” (at Appendix
B, pages 26 to 44 of 63).
The Commission’s website also contains a wealth of further material, including
video and transcripts of the Commission’s hearing.
- 2005 (various dates) – State Department “counter-misinformation” statements
The State Department has issued various statements online (apparently no longer maintained on its own website) in relation to “misinformation”.
It is still possible to access some of the relevant statements by using internet archive websites such as the Wayback
Machine.
The relevant statements appear to have been authored by the U.S. Department of State's “counter-misinformation” team, headed by
Todd Leventhal.
Relevant statements issued by the State Department include:
- June 2005 : NIST Report into the collapses of the Twin Towers
The National Institute of Standards and Technology (“NIST”) report on the collapse of the World Trade Towers is available on
this NIST website.
- July 2006 - Zacarias Moussaoui trial exhibits released
During July 2006, the exhibits put forward as evidence in the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui
(i.e. United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui, Criminal No. 01-455-A - U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia) were released.
The relevant exhibits include various photographs and other material which have since appeared on numerous websites.
Both the prosecution exhibits and the
defence exhibits can be found online on
the Court website
- Combatant tribunals
Some material relating to the enemy combatant tribunal hearings of certain individuals relevant to consideration of 9/11 conspiracy theories is
available online.
For example, in relation to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed it is currently possible to find
details of relevant allegations and
a transcript of a relevant hearing.
Similarly, in relation to Ramzi Binalshibh it is currently possible to find
details of relevant allegations and
a transcript of a relevant hearings.
- Documents relating to other legal proceedings
Documentation relating to various other legal proceedings relevant to 9/11 conspiracy theories can also be found online, including:
[edit on 19-12-2008 by IsaacKoi]
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 06:16 AM by IsaacKoi
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Section 9 : Useful free books and articles online
Some budding 9/11 researchers may be surprised by the useful free books and articles that can be found online. I’ll give some helpful links
below.
- 9.1 Free 9/11 Books
- 9.2 Other significant publications available free online
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 06:17 AM by IsaacKoi
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Section 9.1 Free 9/11 books online
Various lists of recommended books relating to 9/11 conspiracy theories can be found online, particularly on “truther” websites. Many of these
are rather biased and/or uncritical about the contents of the relevant books (e.g. see the list on the
“War on Freedom” website).
Relatively few of these books are available free online. The position can be contrasted with the position in relation to UFO books, where (as noted
in my “Free UFO Researcher Starter Pack”), complete editions of several of the
most influential and popular UFO books are now available for free online. The relatively smaller number of 9/11 books online may be due to the fact
that they were written relatively recently and are still in print (and therefore copyright is more of an issue than it is with many forty-year-old UFO
books that are no longer in print).
However, it is possible to find a relatively small number of complete 9/11 books online, either on the websites of the author (or the website of a
truther organization related to the author) or on certain third party websites. In relation to the latter, many of the relevant complete books can be
found on the “scribd.com” website. Since that website is well-established and since many of the relevant books have been on there for a
significant period, I presume that the books are on that website with the permission of the relevant authors. Relevant books include the
following:
- The full 9/11 Commission Report.
- “New Pearl
Harbour” by David Ray Griffin.
- “9/11 Synthetic Terror” by Webster Griffin Tarpley.
- “War on
Freedom” by Ahmed.
- “Painful Questions” by Eric Hufschmid.
- “America’s War on Terrorism” by Michael Chossoudsky.
- “911 Descent into Tyranny” by Alex Jones.
- The entire text of the book "Welcome to Terrorland: Mohamed Atta and the 9-11 Cover-Up in Florida" can be read online
on this website (which may require you to register if you have not
previously done so).
Limited portions of various books have also been made available online (presumably by the relevant authors to increase awareness of their books) ,
e.g. chapter 19 (entitled “Wargames and High Tech: Paralyzing the system to
pull off the attacks”) of “Crossing the Rubicon” by Michael Ruppert.
The Google Books service also makes available limited previews of various relevant books, including:
Several websites include collections of links to free books online about terrorism. While few of these directly relate to 9/11 conspiracy theories,
quite a few are indirectly relevant. See, for example, this webpage.
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 06:17 AM by IsaacKoi
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Section 9.2 Other significant publications available free online
While not precisely books, there are various important articles printed in mainstream media publications relating to 9/11 conspiracy theories
available online. I’ll briefly mention several of them:
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 06:18 AM by IsaacKoi
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Section 10 : “Truther” websites and resources
I’ll avoid trying to provide a list of all the 9/11 websites on the Internet. Any such list would be extremely long. However, I’ll provide
a few useful links.
A summary of some of the more influential “truther” websites and groups can be found in a
Wikipedia entry on Truth Movement organizations.
There are numerous websites that contains long lists of links to groups and webpages around the world. Those lists tend not to be grouped by (or even
indicate) which country each group is active within. Some of the more useful lists include:
In terms of the most influential and/or useful truther research groups and websites, I’ll quickly give links to the following websites in
alphabetical order:
- The 911 Blogger – one of the most active truther blogs.
- The 911 Citizens Watch website still appears on various short-lists online of the best truther
websites, but it has been largely inactive for a considerable period and is no longer a very useful resource.
- The 911docs.net website includes long lists of 9/11 videos online, with some useful rudimentary grouping of
videos (e.g. one list for documentaries and another list entitled “9/11 Lectures / Panels / Conferences”), but you need to click on each
individual title to get any details.
- The 911proof website covers a large number of conspiracy theories relatively concisely and organized into
various categories, with links to numerous other websites (usually other truther websites) for further reading on each point. On this website,
relevant skeptical material is rarely, if ever, acknowledged or linked to.
- The 911 Reading Room website contains a considerable number of articles from the mainstream media which
are relied upon by truthers. This website includes considerably more categorisation than most websites, but so far I have found the
9/11 Terror Timeline created by Paul Thompson and others to be a more
useful truther guide to relevant press reports, since that website has more material and can be searched in more ways.
- The 911research website contains material contributed by Jim Hoffman and others. It is one of the more
concise, organized and better referenced truther websites. A very useful resource for truther material (although relevant skeptical material is
largely, if not entirely, ignored).
- The 911review.com website is concise and well-organized, but not as well referenced as several other truther
websites, e.g. the 911 Research website.
- The 911review.org website contains one of the most extensive 9/11 wikis by a truther. Quite a few entries
within that wiki are heavily biased. Supporting references are generally lacking. One fairly extreme example of such bias can be found in the
911review entry relating to Flight 77, which states: “Flight 77 is said to have crashed in the
Pentagon Attack, but we know that it did not”. This website also contains the 911 Review customized search
engine, which searches a large number of 9/11 websites (generally “truther” websites rather than “skeptic” websites) – but can produce
many results from rather poor websites.
- The 911Scholars website is rather confusing to navigate, but contains some interesting and relatively
in-depth truther items.
- The 911summary webpage contains a useful summary of statements by various categories of individuals (e.g.
“911 Commissioners”, “Intelligence Professionals”,
“Legal Scholars”) relied upon as indicating that the relevant individuals support the 9/11 truth
movement and/or question the US government’s account of 9/11.
- The 911truth website is one of the best organized truther websites, with relatively well structured sections for
beginners as well as for research and activism. The links page on 911truth.org, which contains a very
long list of truther websites with brief comments on each website. Few, if any, of the comments are critical of anything about the websites
mentioned.
- The ae911truth.org website (“Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth”) is associated with Richard Gage. It
contains a 9/11 petition signed by purported architects and engineers as well as various related
articles and resources, focused on the collapses of the twin towers and WTC7.
- The American Free Press website is a highly controversial website. It is used as a source of material
for several 9/11 conspiracy documentaries and articles on many “truther” websites.
- The extensive 9/11 Terror Timeline created by Paul Thompson and
others provides relatively easily accessible summaries of information from various media reports (and a few other sources) on individuals and
events leading up to the terrorist attacks and America's response. Some of this material was compiled into a book by Paul Thompson, “The Terror
Timeline”, which is discussed in this Wikipedia entry. Not all the comments Terror
Timeline have been entirely complimentary. For example, one of the (largely skeptical) members of the JREF forum commented
in one thread on that forum that: “[Paul Thompson] is frankly an idiot and a
charlatan. His Timeline is worse than useless, he does not even the most basic research, and seems incapable of applying simple logic to determine
which news article is true and which is false. Instead he puts two conflicting ones together, plays some spooky music, and goes ‘oooh, something
doesn't add up’.” Personally, I think that website is a useful tool when looking for summaries of media coverage of certain issues. However,
the content of the Timeline should be regarded simply as one tool, or one starting point, rather than taken as gospel.
- The Fire Fighters For 911 Truth website contains a mish-mash of material. It states that it “will
also be listing all firefighters who publicly support a REAL investigation”.
- The Info Wars website is one of several websites connected with radio personality Alex Jones. Contains
numerous articles relating to 9/11.
- The Journal Of 911 Studies claims to be a “a peer-reviewed, open-access, electronic-only journal,
covering the whole of research related to the events of 11 September, 2001”. The co-editors are Steven Jones, Kevin Ryan, and Frank Legge. The
website contains numerous articles which are far longer and more detailed than the content of most truther (or skeptic) websites.
- The Justice for 9/11 contains a petition, purportedly signed by over 16,000 individuals, that contends
(amongst other things) that there is “ample evidence and probable cause to believe that many grave and still unresolved crimes were committed by US
officials prior to, during and after the events of 9/11”.
- The website operated by “Killtown” contains a mass of material, including Killtown’s
“250+ Smoking Guns”.
- The Lawyers For 911 Truth website contains a petition purportedly signed by “legal scholars,
judges and attorneys” demanding “an end to the 9/11 cover-up, a new, full and unbiased investigation, and punishment of all guilty parties”
[edit on 19-12-2008 by IsaacKoi]
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 06:19 AM by IsaacKoi
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- The Oilempire.us website looks rather garish and is not always entirely coherent, but it contains a lot
of material and links relating to 9/11 and “peak oil”.
- The Patriots Question 9/11 website contains quotations attributed to numerous individuals purportedly
indicating that the relevant individuals support the 9/11 truth movement and/or question the US government’s account of 9/11. The relevant
individuals are separated into several categories, e.g. “Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law
Enforcement, and Government Officials”, “Engineers and Architects”,
“Pilots and Aviation Professionals” and
“Artists, Entertainers, and Media Professional”. The “Patriots Question 9/11” website
has been discussed in some detail by skeptics in this thread on the JREF forum.
- The Physics911 website claims to represent a “scientific panel investigating 9/11”, comprising Steven
Jones, Kevin Ryan and others.
- The Pilots for 9/11 Truth claims to be an organization of “aviation professionals and pilots”
asking for “a true, new independent investigation into the events of 9/11”. Focuses on the four flights that were crashed on 9/11. Includes
a forum.
- The Prison Planet website is one of several conspiracy websites connected with radio personality Alex Jones.
The forum associated with this website is discussed in Section 12 below.
- The Septembereleventh website still appears on various short-lists online of the best truther
websites, but it has been inactive since 2006 and is no longer a very useful resource.
- The stj911.org (Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice) website claims to represent “a group of scholars and
supporters endeavoring to address the unanswered questions of the September 11, 2001 attack through scientific research and public education”.
Relatively clear and concise, but not as comprehensive or well-referenced as some of the other truther websites included in this list.
- The Visibility 9/11 website includes a collection of podcasts in which numerous members of the
“truth movement” express their views in individual podcasts.
- The WTC7.net website was created by Jim Hoffman and focuses on the collapse of World Trade Center building 7.
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 06:19 AM by IsaacKoi
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Section 11 : “Skeptic” websites and resources
For a lengthy list of links to skeptic resources, see this webpage by Mark Roberts, particularly the
section entitled Notable 9/11 Conspiracy Debunking Websites
I have covered the significant issue of skeptical videos above, in Section 6.4. If you have a 9/11 “truther” documentary and want to watch a video
addressing 9/11 conspiracy theories produced by the mainstream media or by skeptics, see Section 6.4 above.
If you have watched the “Loose Change” video and found it persuasive, the views of sceptics directly addressing the content of that video can be
found in the following sources (described in more detail above in Section 5, which is devoted to the Loose Change video):
If you have not read any sceptical material about 9/11 then:
For more general and detailed sceptical resources, see:
- 911myths – One of the most accessible and comprehensive skeptical websites. It covers a lot of ground. Much
of the content is in relatively short discrete sections, in a format that briefly explains the relevant conspiracy theory and then provides comments
on the relevant theory. Well written and referenced.
- Debunk 9/11 Myths – Not quite as comprehensive as 911myths.com nor are the connections between the content
and relevant conspiracy theories always made entirely clear. However, once you are fairly familiar with the basic conspiracy theories and issues
arising, this website contains a lot of useful material in a concise format with relevant links to further information.
- 911 Guide – Provides very brief and concise summaries of numerous 9/11 conspiracy theories with links
to further reading (usually on websites of other skeptics). An extremely useful resource and often a worth a look when starting to examine a specific
9/11 conspiracy theory or topic.
- Prominent 9/11 skeptic Mark Roberts has a website that contains many, many links. That website is
not necessarily the place to visit for quick answers, but it does lead to some interesting and detailed material. That website is often a starting
point, rather than a place at which answers are conveniently packaged. While not immediately apparent, quite a few of the more useful links are to
content tucked away on that website itself, e.g. sections linking to resources relevant to
the NIST report and structural engineering issues, on
World Trade Center Building 7, on Flight
93 and on the Pentagon attack. This website includes a notable
entitled Laughing to Keep from Crying: The Lighter Side of 9/11
Stupidity.
- Mark Iradian’s “Frequently Stupid Theories” document. This relatively lengthy
document (about 78 pages long) lacks a clear structure and is sometimes a bit rambling, but it covers a lot of ground and the content is detailed,
well referenced and illuminating.
- Screw Loose Change Blog - While some of the blog posts are well-referenced and well-argued, as
with many blogs it is difficult to find the best material merely by browsing. Many of the posts on the
Screw Loose Change Blog have a rather impatient tone…
- 911 Debunker – Focuses on addressing conspiracy theories relating to Flight 93 and relating to the
Pentagon attack.
- Debunking911 – Detailed treatment of a limited number of 9/11 conspiracy theories, particularly relating
to the collapse of the Twin Towers and WTC7.
- Journal of Debunking 911 Conspiracy Theories – Rather limited number of articles, but those articles are more
in-depth than the content of most other websites.
- AE911Truth.info – Describes itself as dedicated to exposing the lies and mistakes of
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth. Useful if you are examining the claims made on the website of the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth and/or
by Richard Gage, but the websites listed above are probably more accessible.
Various discussion forums relating to 9/11 are summarized in Section 12 below. However, it is worth mentioning in this section that there is one
skeptical forum that is often the source of the most detailed discussion of 9/11 conspiracy theories – the
the 9/11 section of the JREF forums. Another skeptical forum which focuses on 9/11
conspiracy theories is Screw Loose Change forum, but the Screw Loose Change forum is considerably less
active than the JREF 9/11 forum.
[edit on 19-12-2008 by IsaacKoi]
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 06:20 AM by IsaacKoi
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Section 12 : 9/11 discussion forums online
There is a large forum relating to 9/11 conspiracy theories on ATS. Given the huge number of posts on ATS, a helpful index was created entitled
"Forum Reference Index AND Thread for Discussing anything related to 9/11, Pentagon,
etc.". While that index is rather out of date, it does contain links to some of the largest relevant threads in the 9/11 discussion forum on
ATS. It may be useful if I include a link to an updated list of top 9/11 threads on ATS as
sorted by number of views (with the most viewed thread listed first).
The discussion forum on ATS is notable for the fact that it attracts involvement by a considerable number of both “truthers” and skeptics. Most
discussion forum relating to discussion of 9/11 conspiracy theories are heavily dominated by either truthers or skeptics. Most of the leading
researchers from one camp tend to participate in forums dominated with others from the same camp. (The degree of polarization is even worse than that
which exists in relation to ufological forums). Indeed, some truther discussion forums go as far as to have rules requiring skeptics only to
participate in relatively small sub-forums or even explicitly excluding skeptics altogether. I am not aware of any skeptic site that has any express
rules excluding truthers, but truthers can encounter a considerable amount of ridicule on some skeptic forums which may discourage participation by
truthers.
There are many, many truther forums. Some of the most significant are:
- The Loose Change Forums - One of the most active truther forums. The
forum rules state that a limited number of listed arguments by skeptics will be
“either ignored or erased, as they have no merit”, e.g. "too many people would be involved, so your conspiracy is bogus", "all the people
involved must be paid off, so your conspiracy is bogus", "you guys are still alive, so your conspiracy is bogus", "our government is too dumb to
pull this off, so your conspiracy is bogus". The forum rules also state that “Certain theories perceived as extreme and divisive will be moderated
at the discretion of the administration” and that “NPT [No Planes Theory] theories, and support of movies like September Clues, is not allowed in
any way. Planes hit the WTC. We refuse to allow that to be disputed on this forum”.
- The 911movement.org Forum- One of the most active truther forums. The forum rules state “Members who
support the official 9/11 story will only be allowed to post in the OCT section.”
- The 9/11 section of the Prison Planet forums – Connected with Alex Jones. Much of the
content of the Prison Planet forums relate to discussion of the “New World Order” and related conspiracy theories.
- The UK Truth Forum A UK truther forum which (in contrast to most truther forums) extends to
various other conspiracy, social and UFO topics (e.g. exopolitics). Many other truther forums studiously avoid discussion of UFOs, or relegate any
discussion of them to a relatively small and sub-forum (e.g. Prison Planet has a sub-forum entitled
“Off Topic / Faux Controversies / Whining Threads / UFO's”).
- The Lets Roll forum- Slightly less active truther forum than those above, but with a relatively
extensive archive.
- The Breaking News forum - Slightly less active truther forum
As for 9/11 skeptic forums:
- There is one forum which stands out - the 9/11 section of the JREF forums. This forum is
often the source of the most detailed skeptical discussion of 9/11 conspiracy theories.
- Another skeptical forum which focuses on 9/11 conspiracy theories is Screw Loose Change forum, but
the Screw Loose Change forum is considerably less active than the JREF 9/11 forum.
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 06:43 AM by tezzajw
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Isaac = Cool.
A couple of minor suggestions for the Glossary.
ONA = Over Naval Annex.
NOC = North of Citgo.
SOC = South of Citgo.
Citgo = The petrol station, blah blah...
NWO = New World Order, not NOW.
ANC = Arlington National Cemetary.
RADES = Radar...
E4B = The plane...
VENUS 77 = The plane...
VDOT = Virginia Dept...
(Just suggestions from me late at night now trying to avoid bed)
I'll read the rest in the morning. Too tired to digest all those posts at once. Thanks.
[edit on 19-12-2008 by tezzajw]
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 09:45 AM by Skyfloating
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*Outstanding Work*
...for anyone who has gotten confused, overwhelmed and tired of the topic getting this type of overview is certainly a motivator to look at it with
new zest.
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 10:04 AM by hILB3rT
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While I haven't gotten through all of your information I did want to stop and take a moment to give you a S&F for your efforts. Great work. Going to
head over the UFO starter kit when I finish here.
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 10:49 AM by Vega80
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S&F!!!
Great job on organizing information on a topic of such proportions! Thanks for your hard work!
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 06:21 PM by thedman
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Your catalog seems to be almost exclusively composed of tin foil wearing
loons - case in point Eric Hufschmidt. Now why would want to include
anything from a jew hating Neo nazi fruit cake - unless one wants to
discredit everything they do
How about this site?
Covers all aspects of 9/11 without the conpiracy loons
wtc7lies.googlepages.com...
That is if you are serious about doing real research, not feeding some
paranoid fantasties....
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 07:03 PM by IsaacKoi
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Originally posted by thedman
Your catalog seems to be almost exclusively composed of tin foil wearing
loons - case in point Eric Hufschmidt.
If you consider most 9/11 "truthers" to be "tin foil wearing loons", then the sections of my article about the most significant "truther" books
and videos will obviously mainly refer to individuals that you consider to be "tin foil wearing loons".
A summary of 9/11 resources and material which did not contain many links to such "truther" websites would not exactly be comprehensive.
One of the reasons for my posting this article is that most truther websites do not give links to many skeptical websites, and vice versa. This
article was intended to give links to the most influential and significant material on both sides of the debate.
As for Eric Hufschmid, are you suggesting that Eric Hufschmid (his name doesn't have a "t" at the end) has not been a significant part of the
history of the "truth" movement? If so, I think many skeptics and quite a few truthers would disagree. I assume you are familiar with the (skeptic)
Screw Loose Change blog referred to repeatedly in my article and the following comments about him in
this article on that blog:
Eric Hufschmid was the first American to publish a book about 9-11 Troof, called Painful Questions, which was released in 2002. Eric might be called
the godfather of the American 9-11 Truth Movement. And Eric is a Holocaust Denier. ... Eric Hufschmid's work was cited by David Ray Griffin in the
New Pearl Harbor, and by Sofia Shafquat and Brad Waddell in 9-11 Mysteries.
Also, the website run by Mark Roberts referred to in your post contains details of
a poll of truthers which suggests that Eric Hufschmid's video and
book would be included in a short-list of the material best known to truthers.
Mmm. Sounds like most skeptics would consider Hufschmid worth mentioning.
Um, I don't know if you noticed but I have already included quite a few links to that website run by Mark Roberts - e.g. near the start of Section 4
(a link to a glossary on his website), in Section 7.1 (a link to a webpage on his website relevant to consideration of the NORAD tapes), in Section
7.2 (a link to a webpage on his website containing information about 9/11 photographs), a link to his website is the first link in Section 11
(Skeptics websites and resources) and there quite a few further links to his website in that section.
I also included:
(1) numerous links to relevant threads on the JREF forum (e.g. in relation to many of the individual "truther" videos),
(2) numerous links tg quite a few other skeptical websites (particularly in Section 5 and Section 11) and skeptical videos (particularly in
Section 6.4), plus a couple of links to a customised search engine that I
created which can be used to search several skeptic websites at the same time.
Kind Regards,
Isaac
[edit on 19-12-2008 by IsaacKoi]
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 07:43 PM by yardman
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Though, summarily dismissed as anti-semitic by those inclined to see any criticism of Israel as being thus, I find the video 'Missing Links' to be
most informative.
The plausible consideration of an Israeli/Zionist connection to any false flag explanation of the events of 9/11 cannot be intelligently denied. Even
Alex Jones has of late focused on such a possible scenario.
Indeed, barring those hopelessly naive folks who cling desperately to the belief that we live in a conspiracy free world, is it not readily admitted
by most 'conspiracists' that disinformation and deflecting blame from the true masterminds of any devious plot are standard practices?
www.911missinglinks.com...
[edit on 19-12-2008 by yardman]
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 08:36 PM by EvilAxis
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Many thanks, IsaacKoi, for the considerable work you have put into compiling this resource.
A few questions and observations:
Where do you stand on the 9/11 question? Having researched it in some depth I take it you have arrived at a position. Do you believe it would
compromise your credibility as an objective compiler of reliable research sources to declare that position?
You state that “interest in 9/11 conspiracy theories... appears to be decreasing.” I was under the opposite impression but my evidence for this
is anecdotal and subjective. Did you base your statement on the number of new 9/11 topics at ATS, a poll, or something more substantial?
I have to challenge you on your use of the term “9/11 conspiracy theories” in reference exclusively to theories that challenge the American
Government's theory about the 9/11 attacks. As a student of 9/11 you must know it has been pointed out ad nauseam that the official theory is in
every sense a conspiracy theory. The definition of “conspiracy theory” as “only pertaining to suspected wrong-doing by the government and
intelligence agencies against the electorate but not pertaining to suspected wrong-doing by outside agencies” serves a propagandist agenda. I'm
surprised therefore that you adopt this contentious terminology.
The limp-sounding, made-up word, “truther” is also non-neutral, implying that nobody else is interested in the truth, but I guess we're stuck
with this one.
I'm not sure why you gave credence to the largely ad hominem JREF attack on the Paul Thompson 9/11 Terror Timeline. The only substantial criticism it
contains is the complaint that Thompson “seems incapable of applying simple logic to determine which news article is true and which is false.”
That misses entirely the point of the timeline, which consists of multiple verbatim media reports from diverse sources, many of which evidently
misrepresent the facts because they contradict each other. It is left for the reader to judge which these are.
I'm a little surprised also that you encourage researchers to download and install the Google Toolbar. Personally I would advise anyone who values
their privacy and security, whether researching 9/11 or their favourite pop star, to steer well clear of it. I won't derail with information on
Google privacy issues in general or the toolbar in particular but urge readers to research it themselves. Or read a few posts hence where someone
declares “nonsense – he's just spreading paranoia.”
Again, thanks for your efforts in creating this thread. I have a number of other important resources I shall try to post later.
[edit on 19-12-2008 by EvilAxis]
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reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 11:49 PM by shortywarn
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good work,,, applaud the time and effort you put into this,,,,
don't want to derail thread so ignore me if need be but
what was the final answer or result----concerning the car that was melted, totally burnt that was miles away from ground zero?????
i remember seeing pics,,, and some saying lasers or exotics weaponry had caused this,,,,granted i'm not sure about all that,,,,, but i was always
intrigued as to why or how this could have occured
anyway great work
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