what's the most powerful Fighter in the world F-22 or the Su 27(35m)

well it would be smart wouldnt it ?
also i think that it would be great in a canyon or low level flying u can stop and fly behind an object or somein

Originally posted by COOL HAND
"For rapid deceleration, the nozzles can actually be rotated past the vertical position to about 98�. "

www.globalsecurity.org...

There you go.

Thanks, I already knew that from friends who fly it. I was just asking the question of why would anyone want to fly backwards????

Maybe you overshot your landing spot slightly and want to save a little time by backing up. Or to show off at an airshow. However, flying backwards is a bit dumb and pointless in a combat situation. I think if you read my previous posts, you'll see that I said something to that effect.

>EDIT<

Oh, well, so I didn't.

[Edited on 14-4-2004 by Lampyridae]

Originally posted by devilwasp
well it would be smart wouldnt it ?
also i think that it would be great in a canyon or low level flying u can stop and fly behind an object or somein

Yup, that's what attack choppers are for! However, for a fighter aircraft, speed is life. You don't ever want to be going slow.

"Raptor picks up bogey on radar, bogey doesn't"

This is a ssuming the bogey doesnt have AWACS support, or ground based air search, which would allow thew bogey to see they Raptor before the Raptor could see the bogey. The raptor maybe stealth, but many countires have the ability to track stealth aircraft (although not target them), and if the air is humid or it is raining the stealth would be degraded to a degree to which a modern fighter could detect the Raptor without support.


"Raptor fires AMRAAM missle, still bogey doesn't know raptor is there."

The AMRAAM would give away the position of the raptor, and allow the bogey to exectute counter measures to the missile. From a long range, missiles such as AMRAAM lose their energy over long distances giving the bogey a very good chance of evading the AMRAAM.

"AMRAAM goes to end game and "locks on" to bogey. Bogey realizes he is about to die and ejects."

This is a ssuming the bogey isnt a highly agile or high speed aircraft capable of out flying the AMRAAM with the use of counter measures.

"If I were the UK, I'd be kissing Washingtons (c) to try to get this bad boy - maybe it could be made cheaper in greater numbers."

Or maybe they could just threaten to kill the electoral compaign of the candidate that doesnt promise us 200 free fighter jets!

Britiain currently has a good enough fighter plane, and eurofighter will improve this further...raptor isnt needed here, like it isnt needed in the USA!

Tornado F3 is superior to the F15 C/D/I/S in BVR, but is inferior in WVR combat (dogfighting)! The only F15 radar to better this is the new phased array radar for the F15K.

Originally posted by devilwasp
u still dont get my point u americans are not the best at aircraft building all u do is step on giants shoulders i mean u guys wouldnt have a jet programe if it wasnt for the germans
any how our pilots would just dodge the missile and we would just use sight

[Edited on 05/03/2004 by devilwasp]

Heh, I could say this...

Without Americas invention of the NUKE, you wouldn't have nukes.

Without Americas invention of the AIRPLANE, no one would be flying.


So Devilwasp, rethink your answer and please respond with a more inteligent responce.

True but you will have to agree with devilwasp too

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
True but you will have to agree with devilwasp too

How do I have to agree?

with out the british invention of the engine then u wouldnt be able to power ur stupid planes

And again, As I state,

Without Americas invention of the NUKE, you wouldn't have nukes.

Without Americas invention of the AIRPLANE, no one would be flying.

Yes, at long distances, the bogey might be able to evade one AAMRAM with maneuvering and contermeasures.

What happens then?

Well, another's coming.

And all along the Raptor is approaching at >1 Mach without using fuel-guzzling afterburners. And no lock on thanks to pretty damn good stealth.

Bogey used up lots of fuel doing the maneuvering.

Bogey has to go home and can't threaten friendly assets.

Raptor wins air superiority, splashing bogey or not.
That's what matters.

But, How can you not have air domiance when you got a ABL(hopefully) for A2A missles instead of Nukes. The JSF with it, and the f22.

"Raptor picks up bogey on radar, bogey doesn't"

This is a ssuming the bogey doesnt have AWACS support, or ground based air search, which would allow thew bogey to see they Raptor before the Raptor could see the bogey. The raptor maybe stealth, but many countires have the ability to track stealth aircraft (although not target them), and if the air is humid or it is raining the stealth would be degraded to a degree to which a modern fighter could detect the Raptor without support.

Your right - I do assume it doesn't because the AWACS would already be shot down. US AWACS are the best - there for the US knows you are there before you know the US is there. Hence, enemy AWACS is shot down, enemy aircraft don't know Raptor is there.
"Raptor fires AMRAAM missle, still bogey doesn't know raptor is there."

The AMRAAM would give away the position of the raptor, and allow the bogey to exectute counter measures to the missile. From a long range, missiles such as AMRAAM lose their energy over long distances giving the bogey a very good chance of evading the AMRAAM.

No, it does not give away the Raptors position. The AMRAAM uses the Raptors radar to target the enemy. This means that the enemy will have no idea the missle is coming. The bogey does not have a very good chance at escape - AMRAAM hits over 90% - I'd say that is a bad chance.

"AMRAAM goes to end game and "locks on" to bogey. Bogey realizes he is about to die and ejects."

This is a ssuming the bogey isnt a highly agile or high speed aircraft capable of out flying the AMRAAM with the use of counter measures.

The AMRAAM locks on at the very last moment, giving single digit seconds for evasion. Basically, you eject or die.

"If I were the UK, I'd be kissing Washingtons (c) to try to get this bad boy - maybe it could be made cheaper in greater numbers."

Or maybe they could just threaten to kill the electoral compaign of the candidate that doesnt promise us 200 free fighter jets!

Britiain currently has a good enough fighter plane, and eurofighter will improve this further...raptor isnt needed here, like it isnt needed in the USA!

Tornado F3 is superior to the F15 C/D/I/S in BVR, but is inferior in WVR combat (dogfighting)! The only F15 radar to better this is the new phased array radar for the F15K.

I'll put my money on the Yankee tech - the RAF is very good. But no AF compares to the US.

Originally posted by devilwasp
with out the british invention of the engine then u wouldnt be able to power ur stupid planes

Not true - the Germans had developed jet engines as well. So, the US could do without your engine.

Might I add to this lively discussion the idea that it doesn't matter WHO invented the blasted technology, it's about who has the MONEY to implement it.

And I don't care how good the F-22 is, unless they can fix its unbelievably buggy software, all this talk about the F-22 ruling the skies is moot.

Delivery is down to just over 200 aircraft at $300 mil apiece, as I've said before. For that price you can buy FIVE Eurofighter Typhoons. The stats say the F-22 has a kill ratio of 10 to 1 against Su-35, while the EF 2000 has a 4.5 to 1 ratio. The maths is a lot more complex than this, but I would take it to mean an F-22 taking on two to three -maybe even four, I'll be generous -Eurofighters. That still leaves one extra for the price (approx. $60 mil each). In a peacekeeping / UN mandate situation, this means you can secure effective air dominance over a tinpot dictator country for a lot less and fly a LOT more sorties.

I disagree. The US wants the 22 because tech improves only when it is used. Thus, though we have little need for the Raptor, at the very least it should be used to test and prove/disprove technology in combat. And remember this - it's not like the US is ever starving for money - if there were a war and a lot of aircraft were needed, then we would put the budget up to 1.2 TRILLION plus, like we did in the 80's.

'Changes over the basic Su-27 are numerous. Canard foreplanes were added while power is from two upgraded Saturn AL-35F (or AL-31 MF) turbofans. Flight control is provided by a digital fly-by-wire system with quadruplex redundancy (the Su-27's fly-by-wire system is analog). The reprofiled nose houses a multimode Phazotron N011 Zhuk 27 radar (with a larger diameter, flat plate antenna) which has a search range of 100km (55nm), can track 24 targets simultaneously and has terrain following/avoidance. The tailcone houses a rearwards facing Ryazan radar. A new IRST set has been repositioned on the nose. The EFIS cockpit features three color CRTs and a HUD. Other features are a retractable in-flight refuelling probe, taller squared off fins each containing an auxiliary fuel tank and twin nosewheels. Some have been noted with large ECM wingtip pods.' taken from: www.aeronautics.ru...

i know that the initial question was what the performance relationship between th su-27 an the f22 is. as most people concluded, the f22 is superior. ok. but what about the su-37? i mean, that plane has a far greater maneuvabilty than any other european plane (except for the harrier versions) and as stated a greater radar range than the su-27.

the Su-37 is indeed a fine air craft. The thing is that in a head to head, 1v1 fight, the Raptor still has the edge in BVR. That is what seperates the F/A-22 from other aircraft. It still gets the first look, first shot, first kill. With the accuracy of US missles, it seems that evading a missle like this, and then locating, targeting and shooting the super stealthy F/A-22 is too difficult.

ok. supposedly the f22 has BVR. but it is impossible to find the predicted exact radar range of raptors. secondly, ok. it might have the first look on the target, but the su-37 still has a radar range of 100km (60miles) and herewith not necessarily the first shoot. thirdly and mainly, a machine can only be as good as its pilot.

theres 1 thing i dont get about the usa military budget hear me oout before u rip my carcuss apart
where the hell does all ur money go ?
i mean come on u guys used to have lots of projects on but now uv only got a few on.whats up with that?

Originally posted by devilwasp
theres 1 thing i dont get about the usa military budget hear me oout before u rip my carcuss apart
where the hell does all ur money go ?
i mean come on u guys used to have lots of projects on but now uv only got a few on.whats up with that?

All the good stuff that we do is classified. There is no reason to publicly discuss the things that will ensure our dominance of any future battlefield.

BTW we still have lots of projects, we just don't talk about them.