what's the most powerful Fighter in the world F-22 or the Su 27(35m)

from Milan

Su 27(35m) is the most manoeuvrable fighter in the warld but it hasn't a good long range radar .in the otherhand F 22 has the most powerful long range radar in the warld .so what will be the winner

[Edited on 13-4-2004 by Milan]

[Edited on 19-4-2004 by John bull 1]

I must say that the F-22 holds all of the cards. Lockheed just keeps on out-doing themselves.

the su-27 was designed to fight the f-15, the f-22 was designed to fight the su-27, who do you think will win

Don't forget the Harrier.

It may be slow, but it is the most manouverable fighter currently in use.

is this a joke?

OK, well here it goes - the F/A-22 is hands down the most dominate A2A combat aircraft in the world. It's stealth is unmatched, it has supercruise (able to sustain Mach 1 cruise speeds), 2 (I believe) supercomputers, better radar, thrust vectoring, and first look - first shot - first kill capability. There is a missle defense laser in the works (as there also is for the F-35 JSF, which by the way with be doing most of the fighting).

No fighter in the world comes close to matching the F/A-22. By every measure, the Raptor represents extraordinary breakthroughs in maneuverability, stealth, sensor fusion � a wealth of parameters that define a new era in fighter capability.

The F/A-22 is capable of flying and fighting against the most advanced integrated radar networks and dense surface-to-air missile environments in the world � now and in the future. A new generation of fighters is under development in several countries around the world today. The advent of these new fighters, as well as the continuing export of current air defense and adversary advanced fighter technology to the Third World, put the United States� ability to gain and maintain air superiority, much less air dominance, at increasing risk. The F/A-22 will retain the competitive edge through innovations and technologies no one can match.

Lockheed

"In 1980, the USAF initiated the Pave Pillar program. The Pave Pillar program had the goal of developing an advanced avionics architecture that could be built out of standard modules containing next generation digital integrated circuits. This approach would allow navigation, communications, sensors, weapons systems and management subsystems to interact with each other over a local area network (LAN). This would allow processed information to be presented to the crew upon request. Instead of managing complex sensors which can overload the pilot with data, the pilot could concentrate on flying the plane and achieving the mission. Pilot workload can be dramatically reduced in this fashion. Luckily, the F-22 will be the first aircraft to benefit from the Pave Pillar program and increase computer processing power in leaps and bounds. In fact, the F-22's common internal CIP's (Common Internal processors) will be as much as 100 times faster than the most modern avionics suite on the F-15 E Strike Eagle.

Amazingly, the F-22 will come equipped with two Hughes CIP's, with additional space for a third if necessary. Accommodating the CIP's will be an increased data bus bandwidth. The DBB will be able to transfer 50MB per second, in comparison to the meager 1MB max transfer rate on the F-15 Strike Eagle. Unlike previous generations of fighter aircraft radar, the F-22's APG-77 radar is not a stand alone system. The radar antenna will be one of many sensor arrays, including the threat warning system and the electronic warfare equipment. The information from these sensors will be processed by the CIP's, and relayed to the pilot via fused, flat, color LCD Multi Function displays. The F-22 will contain no less than six of the color LCD's, with only 3 backup analog displays for emergencies. The color MFD's will give the pilot a "God's eye" view of the battle situation unlike any modern fighter jet.

Mentioned in the above paragraph, the APG-77 radar is unlike any other fighter radar in the skies. It cannot be rivaled. The radar antenna is a elliptical, fixed active array which contains 1,500 transmit & receive (TR) modules. A individual TR module is essentially a mini radar in its own right. In comparison to an object, each TR module is about the size of an adult finger. A remarkable feature of the APG-77 radar is that it contains no mechanical linkages. Anotherwards, the actual antenna does not move. This does not have any effect on the performance be warned! It is able to sweep 120 degrees of airspace maximum, at 6 bar levels (change in altitude) instantaneously! In comparison to the F-15 Strike Eagle's APG-70 radar, it takes 14 seconds to scan that amount of airspace. The APG-77 is capable of performing this feat by forming multiple radar beams to rapidly search the airspace.

The Low Probability of Intercept (LPI) capability is without a doubt the most impressive feature of the APG-77 radar. With conventional RWR/ESM systems, it is extremely difficult to detect LPI pulses. This translates into a advantage for the F-22. The F-22 will be capable of performing an active radar search on equipped RWR/ESM equipped fighter aircraft without the target knowing he is being illuminated. The APG-77 does not emit high energy pulses in a narrow frequency band like conventional radars. Instead, it emits low energy pulses over a wide frequency band. This is called spread spectrum transmission. The way it works is, when multiple echoes are sent back to the radar, the radar's signal processor converts the signals together instead of individual pulses. The amount of energy reflected back to the target is about the same as a HPI radar, but because each LPI pulse has considerably less amount of energy and does not necessarily fit the normal frequency pattern, the target will have a difficult time detecting the F-22. This becomes more evident in a BVR engagement. In fact, the F-22 can launch an AMRAAM missile without even establishing a lock-on. The unfortunate target won't even receive a missile inbound warning until the missile has activated its own radar and is on final intercept. By this period, it is almost impossible to evade the missile. The pilot will have no other choice but to eject.

The F-22 and its APG-77 radar will also be able to employ better Non-Cooperative Target Recognition (NCTR). This is accomplished by forming incredibly fine beams and by generating a high resolution image of the target by using Inverse Synthetic Aperture radar (ISAR) processing. ISAR uses Doppler shifts caused by rotational changes in the targets position to create a 3D map of the target. The target provides the Doppler shift and not the aircraft illuminating the target. SAR is when the aircraft provides the Doppler shift. Thus, the pilot can compare the target with an actual picture radar image stored in the F-22's data base. This ingenuitive process is possible courtesy of the F22's CIP's.

And just when you thought it couldn't get any better, listen up. The F-22 will have the first integrated avionics suite ever flown on a combat aircraft. The Northrop/Grumman-Texas Instruments APG-77 radar, Lockheed Martin electronic warfare suite and the TRW communications/navigation/IFF subsystems are all included. Over one million lines of computer code will comprise the system. The electronics will be liquid cooled, an much lighter than the old electronics found in fighter a/c such as the F-14, F-15 & F-16. The F-22's CIP's will process 700 million operations per second, which is roughly equivalent to four Cray supercomputers. An integrated countermeasures set will be controlled by the CIP's. Rapid systems programming and upgradeability are available in the time of a crisis. The onboard jammer, communication, navigation, & IFF antennas, in addition to the RWR is contained on smart skins on the wings.

Included in the Communications/Navigation/Identification system is an Inter/Intra-Flight Data Link (IFDL) that allows all F-22s in a flight to share target and system data automatically and without radio calls. One of the original objectives for the F-22 was to increase the percentage of fighter pilots who make 'kills'.With the IFDL, each pilot is free to operate more autonomously because, for example, the leader can tell at a glance what his wing man's fuel state is, his weapons remaining, and even the enemy aircraft has targeted. Classical tactics based on visual 'tally' (visual identification) and violent formation maneuvers that reduce the wing man to 'hanging on' may have to be rethought in light of such capabilities. This link also allows additional F-22 flights to be added to the net for multi-flight coordinated attack."

f22rap.virtualave.net...

So here's how the raptor works: It sneeks up on you, without you seeing it. It fires, still unknown to it's target. At the last moment, it's missle turns locks on to the enemy aircraft, and the targets pilot must either eject or die.

In short, it's not even close. If you want a fair fight maybe that experimental Mig 1.42 or whatever it was that had that famed Russian plasma stealth generator.

The thing is that there aren't many countries out there that can spend the cash on R&D and whatnot to make a rival. Russia claims to have a rival out in 2007 for the Raptor, we shall see. link

Check out this article about F/A-22 first combat unit at Langley

www.globalsecurity.org...

Worrying the article states that the decision to got to full production has yet to be made ... (Comache!)

The Langley projects are on track, an Air Force spokeswoman said, even despite a report last month from the General Accounting Office that said the military can now afford only 218 of the F/A-22 planes within a $36.8 billion spending cap.

The Air Force originally planned to buy 750 but since has reduced the number to 277.

The first combat-ready planes are supposed to hit the skies next year, and the military is supposed to decide by December whether to continue with full production of the plane. The GAO report called on the Pentagon to submit to Congress a detailed justification of the program before that decision.

The plane has had problems with its tail fins, canopy and computer software, the report noted. Its avionics computer processors are obsolete, and changing to new ones necessary for the plane's expanded role will take years and cost hundreds of millions of dollars, the report said.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Here are some good post on the Joint strike fighter, raptor.

hahaha

everytime I think the raptor posts have played themselves out, a new one pops up

Originally posted by American Mad Man
hahaha

everytime I think the raptor posts have played themselves out, a new one pops up

I know its funny isnt it.

the best A2A fighter has to be the F23 its actually desgined just for A2A combat

the best A2A fighter has to be the F23 its actually desgined just for A2A combat

the YF-23 BlackWidow was indeed one hell of an aircraft. I actually started a thread about how I thought the 23 was the better aircraft
If you wunna check it out goHERE

Ok lets settle this heres the info on the Su-27:

Specifications
Country of Origin CIS (formerly USSR)
Similar Aircraft F-15 Eagle
F-14 Tomcat
MiG-29 Fulcrum

Crew one
Role interceptor
air superiority

Length 69 ft (21 m)
Span 47 ft, 6 in (14.5 m)
Armament One 30 mm GSh-301cannon
up to 6,000 kg payload of missiles and bombs including
AA-10 (Alamo) air-to-air missiles
AA-11 (Archer) air-to-air missiles
FAB-100

In-Flight Refueling No
Internal Fuel 6350 kg
Drop Tanks Drop tank with 1600kg for 126nm range
Payload 6000kg
Sensors Flash Dance radar, IRST and TV sensors, RWR, Balistic bombsight
Maximum speed Mach 2.35
Maximum weight 30,000 kg
Ceiling 15240-18,000 m
Range 1,500 km combat radius [typical]
1,800 km cruise radius
4,000 km maximum range
PROPULSION Two 12,550 kg thrust Lyulka AL-31F
User Countries Belarus
CIS
People's Republic of China
Ukraine


Now To The F-22:

Function Air superiority fighter
Contractors Lockheed Martin Aeronautical Systems: F-22 program management, the integrated forebody (nose section) and forward fuselage (including the cockpit and inlets), leading edges of the wings, the fins and stabilators, flaps, ailerons, landing gear and final assembly of the aircraft.
Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems: Center fuselage, stores management, integrated navigation and electronic warfare systems (INEWS), the communications, navigation, and identification (CNI) system, and the weapon support system.
Boeing: wings, aft fuselage (including the structures necessary for engine and nozzle installation), radar system development and testing, avionics integration, the training system, and flight-test development and management.
Pratt & Whitney: F119-PW-100 engines that power the Raptor.

Major Subcontractors (partial list): Northrop Grumman, Texas Instruments, Kidde-Graviner Ltd., Allied-Signal Aerospace, Hughes Radar Systems, Harris, Fairchild Defense, GEC Avionics, Lockheed Sanders, Kaiser Electronics, Digital Equipment Corp., Rosemount Aerospace, Curtiss-Wright Flight Systems, Dowty Decoto, EDO Corp., Lear Astronics Corp., Parker-Hannifin Corp., Simmonds Precision, Sterer Engineering, TRW, XAR, Motorola, Hamilton Standard, Sanders/GE Joint Venture, Menasco Aerospace.
Propulsion two Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 engines
Thrust 35,000 lbst
Length 62.08 feet, 18.90 meters
Height 16.67 feet, 5.08 meters
Wingspan 44.5 feet, 13.56 meters
Wing Area 840 square feet
Horizontal Tailspan 29 feet, 8.84 meters
Maximum Takeoff Weight
Ceiling
Speed Mach 1.8 (supercruise: Mach 1.5)
Crew one
Armament Two AIM-9 Sidewinders
six AIM-120C Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM)
one 20mm Gatling gun
two 1,000-pound Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM)

First flight: September 7, 1997
Date Deployed deliveries beginning in 2002
operational by 2004
Unit Costs
DOD's Projected Unit
Prices Before and After Restructuring
Production
--------------------------
Low-rate Full-rate
------------ ------------
Units Unit Units Unit
Estimates cost cost
-------------------------- ---- ------ ---- ------
Before restructuring 76 $142.6 362 $102.8
Restructured without 70 $200.3 368 $128.2
initiatives
Restructured with 70 $200.8 368 $ 92.4
initiatives
------------------------------------------------------

My money would go on the F-22 not cause it has more specs just because its hard to explain i cant say new but my opinion would be the F-22.

Su-27 Site: www.fas.org...

F-22 Site: www.fas.org...



[Edited on 5-4-2004 by ShadowMan]

i still say the f-23 black widow is the best !!
(thanks for giving me the full name can never rem it mad man!)
the su -27 would be a nice support aircraft though u no think?

Well and truly the F-23 was beaten by the 22 and the latter was chosen as the replacement for the F-15 after careful evaluation. That is self explanatory in settling which is better.

The Su-27 and variants although somewhat better than the F-15 stands no chance against the raptor.It may be more menuverable but the raptor's stealth provides the decisive advantage.

BTW : Its almost foolery comparing the Su-27 with the raptor. comparision with the F-15 is more justified

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Well and truly the F-23 was beaten by the 22 and the latter was chosen as the replacement for the F-15 after careful evaluation. That is self explanatory in settling which is better.

The Su-27 and variants although somewhat better than the F-15 stands no chance against the raptor.It may be more menuverable but the raptor's stealth provides the decisive advantage.

BTW : Its almost foolery comparing the Su-27 with the raptor. comparision with the F-15 is more justified

The 23 vs 23 debate is far from simply "the 22 won so it was better." It was deemed more affordable and agile while the 23 was faster and had better stealth. The choice was made based more on dollar amounts and lockheeds track record with keeping costs down then anything else. Again, I refer to the thread I mentioned.

I would also argue that the F-15 is better. over a hundred kills with no losses speaks volumes. Also, MUCH better avionics.

You are right on the comparison though - F-15 vs Su-27

both are nice aircraft i would say though that if pitted against 1 another then the f15 would win but dont take my stement as a fact as im only an amatuer at knowing aircraft so i only go on my knowlodge and i think the f15 but it would be a close fight, really close

Originally posted by Humpy
Don't forget the Harrier.

It may be slow, but it is the most manouverable fighter currently in use.

Apparently you are about 15 years behind current times, the Harrier is not the most manueverable aircraft, the YF-22, YF-23, and the F-35 JSF are.

And agreed the YF-23 is a great aircraft, but this thread is not on the YF-23 now is it? There are way too many posts on both the Blackwidow and the Raptor, can we please keep these posts in within those threads?

Shattered OUT...

It may be slow, but it is the most manouverable fighter currently in use.
Apparently you are about 15 years behind current times, the Harrier is not the most manueverable aircraft, the YF-22, YF-23, and the F-35 JSF are.
Shattered OUT...

Ever hear of VIFFing?

I'd like to see the F-22 or 23 do that.

whats vffing?
some kinda fancy manovour

Originally posted by devilwasp
whats vffing?
some kinda fancy manovour

VIFFing = Vectoring In Forward Flight

Something the Brits developed years ago that you can only do with a harrier.