Poverty and culture. That's it. Skin tone is a moot point. White America aids in keeping black people poor, which leads to crime.

p.s. I'd like to see the "statistics" for the dollar amount of crimes committed by blacks vs. whites. A handful of caucasian crooks on Wall Street do more damage than the entire population of East St. Louis or inner city Chicago.


I'm white.

Originally posted by whitl103
p.s. I'd like to see the "statistics" for the dollar amount of crimes committed by blacks vs. whites. A handful of caucasian crooks on Wall Street do more damage than the entire population of East St. Louis or inner city Chicago.


I'm white.

I'd have to agree with that comment.

White collar criminals commit huge crimes based on dollar amounts.

I'm sure that many go undetected.

Originally posted by whitl103
Poverty and culture. That's it. Skin tone is a moot point. White America aids in keeping black people poor, which leads to crime.

How does white America keep black people poor?

I am curious.

I know that I've never been assigned a person of color to keep down.

Perhaps that's because I'm working too hard to keep my head about water.

Originally posted by groingrinder

Originally posted by rizla
I think the root cause is poverty.

I also am poor. I do not collect welfare, food stamps, or other aid. I also do not pimp, deal drugs, steal cars, or burglarize homes. Poverty is not an excuse.

I believe the root cause is the idolization of the "gangsta" lifestyle.

[edit on 12-4-2008 by groingrinder]

I think there are different interpretations of 'poverty' being used here. On the one hand, as you say, many people are poor, and do not resort to crime. Many people find that they can't afford the basics every week, but still make do with what they have and can survive.

However, there are also the poor who's poverty is entrenched. Generations of children growing up without anything, who grow up to resent the world for what they see as inequality around them, who then have children and instill this trait, and the cycle grows and continues.

These would, in my opinion, be the poor who resort to crime, not because they lack something they need, but because they lack something they want and see others with things that they consider easy targets.

It certainly is not an excuse, but I do see it a lot where I live, from both White Australians and Aborigines. Sadly, much more in the cases with Aborigines. A lot of the time, their parents are so entrenched in the cycle of welfare, poverty, substance abuse, that the children grow up in such an environment where rules and regulations are a mere hindrance to getting what they want, when they want it..

Apathy, ignorance to the facts and fear of discussing these issues in case the speaker is hounded into submission by the zealots who cry and scream racists at every opportunity, is something that needs to be eradicated WELL before anything can be done to resolve these situations.

At the very least.

I havent read the whole thread, but:

I live in norway, and a HUGE % of the crimes committed are by foreigners.

Not alot of afro americans, but african natives... Like people from Somalia and such..

And im no racist, i got alot of friends from the mideast and africa...

Here are just some thoughts.....not arguments for or against why blacks are/are not whatever.

The real question is regardless of the crime, why are Blacks are prosecuted more often? I mean the disparity with crack related crimes versus cocaine is one of those things...also if you look at statistics blacks are given harsher sentences than whites on average for the same crimes.

Do poor whites have better public defenders or is the justice system somehow inherently racist?

Thoughts anyone?

Originally posted by tac109
I think the root cause is the rap influence and the "gangsta" influence, Rap has a major influence on young blacks, All the rap videos I see are all about guns, drugs, pimping, fighting, running from the cops, etc, Well if snoop dog carries a gun, then I better carry one too, Its this hole image that is portrayed in these rap videos, " Im black, im tough, Im a gansta." and gansters dress a certain way, act a certain way so I should act like that too.

But you do know what record labels those rappers are signed to, right? Universal Music, Warner Music, Sony Music...

Originally posted by rizla
I think the root cause is poverty.

In a majority of cases you are correct. Poverty is a semi-vicious cycle. Once a person is in a rut, it is exceptionally difficult to escape from. I want to make this perfectly clear, I am not condoning or excusing deviant behavior, in fact I firmly believe every sane person understands what the social expectation is by age 14. Anyway, when you live from payday to payday and can barely afford to put food on the table, how do you save money to get your family into an environment that is more conducive to raising good children? You will most likely need a month's advanced rent and the resources necessary to move. In the work environment, these people often have small children and no support group to rely on, so when the kid gets sick, they have to miss work. Not only does this cost many people their employment; but, those that keep their jobs are rarely if ever selected for promotions because they are perceived to be undependable.

After living this life for years it does take it's tolls. Many people chose alcohol or drugs as a means for mental separation from their problems, this, although providing a temporary escape, tends to multiply the problem exponentially, and they later turn to violence. Some folks try to break free of the bond of poverty by selling drugs. The neighborhoods become increasingly violent and in most (definitely not all) cases gangs are used as a means to increase strength through numbers. This quickly gets out of hand and turns into severe social deviance and manifests itself in numerous ways up to and including murder, rape, and a host of other violent crimes.

Once a person has given up hope there is no psychological need to conform to social expectations and thus deviance runs rampant. Perhaps if more people would offer some of these people decent employment opportunities, some of them could have a chance; unfortunately, most people living in this environment have long given up hope and the deviant behavior is so well embedded in their persona it is extremely difficult to change.

Again I would like to express that I am in no way condoning or excusing this behavior, I am merely trying to offer an explanation as to the root causes in many not all of the cases.

Sometimes deviance is a choice due to peer influence, caregiver influence, and/or simply a deviant nature. In these cases most of the assessments these people receive are well earned. The problem is that these people in turn influence others into adapting their behavioral patterns. And this is how impoverished neighborhoods turn into the hell holes we so despise.

[edit on 12/4/2008 by DarrylGalasso]

There are many reasons. I just wanted put this out here...


Again coming from South Carolina which had plantations that you can still see from time to time in ruins here and there. I swear I get along with most people, it is how you approach others.

M. Blanton 89 years old at the time of this conversation:

One of my neighbors whom was very old told me this in our discussion of race relations. When she was young her family owned a plantation. Her family also owned slaves to do the work. From my understanding the people in the community didn't consider blacks as humans rather they were treated as cattle. This aspect was taught even in the Southern Baptist Churches that blacks had no souls and it was proper to own slaves because they were nothing more than animals of burden. Educating a slave was forbidden because it brought moral implications that they were really human.

In such they were influenced by selective breeding. If a black was seen with a book or even touching a book he or she was killed immediately. They wanted someone to pull a plow, pick vegetables, cotton, pull stumps from the ground etc. Her understanding of the time was that her father and others of the community wanted to breed intellect out of the slaves. An educated black was of no use to them. If a white intervened and tried to teach a slave anything they could be hanged themselves as that was akin to stealing a horse in other words you are affecting livestock.

They wanted someone that was strong and stupid and did their best to breed that into the people that were slaves. She also claimed that her father would send four to five women in with the slave that was the best worker (which was big and strong but, not very intelligent). His job was to impregnate all of them because he (the owner) could make extra money selling the offspring of perfect slaves. Many times this also entailed selective breeding between other owners.

It is interesting though that this elderly white lady didn't begrudge black crime. She was adamant that white people made them like this on purpose. She also claimed that history books were light on the atrocities committed during those times.

I'm not trying to assume blacks are stupid at all as I know some very bright people that I love to death but, the story is interesting in the context of the subject. I'm just conveying a story I heard back when I was merely a teenager from someone that was alive during slavery days. I never used her interview because I feared I would be kicked from school for being racist which wasn't true.


B. Houey

This story also corresponds to the stories from an elderly black friend that spoke tales of her ancestors hiding books and learning to read in secret and they pretended to be act stupid in order to fool their owners. She even let me read letters where a slave was sent to another house on assignment would pass letters from family members in secret.


Please don't attack the messenger...I was hoping to hear some correspondence on this.






[edit on 4/12/2008 by toochaos4u]

[edit on 4/12/2008 by toochaos4u]

Several hundred years ago in a country far away, some men had their own kingdoms. If the price was right they raided their neighbors kingdom and captured his subjects. They then sold the captured subjects into slavery. The kingdoms staked out their turf by way of landmarks, like rivers, ridges, and anyone not in their kingdom caught trespassing would be speared to death. But they committed crimes on each other and sold each other into slayery and servitude.
They made lots of money doing this.
Today the turf is defined as sections of town and streets and avenues. They "mark" (LIKE a DOG) their turf with different colors. They sell their own people into the slavery of drug addiction and prostitution. They raid each others turf and territority, not with spears and arrows, but with mac-10 and shotguns. They kill for revenge and retaliation, and follow no rule of higher law than the dictates of the street.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Several hundred years ago in a country far away, some men had their own kingdoms. If the price was right they raided their neighbors kingdom and captured his subjects. They then sold the captured subjects into slavery. The kingdoms staked out their turf by way of landmarks, like rivers, ridges, and anyone not in their kingdom caught trespassing would be speared to death. But they committed crimes on each other and sold each other into slayery and servitude.
They made lots of money doing this.
Today the turf is defined as sections of town and streets and avenues. They "mark" (LIKE a DOG) their turf with different colors. They sell their own people into the slavery of drug addiction and prostitution. They raid each others turf and territority, not with spears and arrows, but with mac-10 and shotguns. They kill for revenge and retaliation, and follow no rule of higher law than the dictates of the street.

Do streets like "Wall Street" count? Because that sounds like Black people's versions of rich white corporate bailouts excepts the colors and symbols are corporate and these corporations kill and or enslave people in one way or another. Does that make it better? Maybe its not money that is the difference. Maybe it's just that all people are evil?



There are no races except for the labels that we put on ourselves. We are the human race.

Poverty causes crime?
What a joke.
Get me the crime statistics from the 1930's in America.

Crime is CAUSED by people CHOOSING to solve their problems illegally.

I hear all the time from convicts that this or that caused they to commit crimes, or do drugs, or whatever antisocial vice they enjoy at the time.

In spite of overwhelming social and family pressure the criminal chooses to solve their problem with illegal activity.

A convict tells me he is the way he is because of (insert favorite excuse here) and I ask him what his sisters and brothers are doing today and he replies, one owns a dry cleaning business, one is a nurse, one is a sheriff officer, one is a mailman. So the next question is what does your mom or dad, or grandmothers or grandfathers think of you being in this prison. They reply invariably that if they would have only listened to their parental authority they would not be here. They consistently say they are the black sheep of the family, and in reality they are the one child who did NOT follow the families rules, citys rules, states rules or societies rules.

Addicts, criminals love social workers that place the blame on society or on mommy not sitting them on the potty correctly, to help them avoid dealing with their own irresponsibility and incorrect choices.

Criminals choose to solve problems by breaking the law.

Poverty causes crime is social worker mentality. Not in touch with the reality of choice and exercize of free will.

I haven't seen where the question the op was racist. It is a legitimate question. What it does come down to is pressure. African American people in general really are pressured to match what everyone else can get. I'm not talking about sports either. This country still is a racist country, but it is getting better. Electing Obama is a sign to show that whites are not so racist any more. I used to be racist. It wasn't just blacks, it was everyone not white. After watching MLK's speaches, I had a huge change of heart. It truly does break my heart that African Americans are still the first to go to jail before anyone else. What it comes down to is bias in the courtroom. Yes, alot of rap does exploit gangsta lifestyle. If you want to be in a real gang, join the military. They truly do have you back. But you have to seriously look at where most of them are forced to live because of that bias. Sounds kind of like our Native American brothers and sisters doesn't it?

Originally posted by rizla
I think the root cause is poverty.

Tried, tested, and fails every time.

There are many times more poor whites in America than blacks. Their crime rate is not anywhere near as high.

The next tried tested and poor excuse is education, that blacks don't receive good education. Again, simply not true, our schools haven't been segregated for more than 60 years. Blacks children receive the SAME exact education as white children but continuously lag behind.

The simple and scientific answer is all races are not equal. It might not be politically correct, you might say it's "racist" to talk about the truth, but it's the scientific truth after all. For instance black's brains are 30% smaller on average than white's brains. It's just flat out physically impossible for their brains to be larger because the cranial sutures end much more abuptly on their skulls than white's, which does not allow the brain as much room to expand over our years of evolution.

Smaller brain (to size of organism) = less intelligent. Nothing racist about it at all, it's simple elementary-level science that you learn about animals in the classroom.

And simple logic dictactes that less intelligent will = less civilized, and less civilized will = higher "crime".

Of course in the name of political correctness, supposedly our brains and bodies are magical and don't operate the same way as other mammals do! Hehehe.. Yeah right.



Simple scientific solution to this. Simple logics.

Of course it's wrong to talk about this, because it "offends" people.

So the actual solution will never be found, no conclusion why black crime rate is higher will ever be reached, because the answer which is right in front of our eyes is censored as not to offend anyone.



Here's a simple diagram that a scientist made comparing the brain size of a black male to a white male.

The one on top is the white male's brain, the one on the bottom is the black male's brain.





It's just flat out physically impossible for a black male to be as intelligent as a white male, when all other factors are equal. Brain size is just a physical, limiting factor that you cannot deny or argue, and cannot change.

And I'm not even trying to preach white superiority here because I'm Jewish myself, not white and Ashekenazi jew's brains are on average even bigger than white's brains, so are east asians, hence why they are more intelligent than whites.




Intelligence, brain size, and race is the correct answer and no scientist or professional in this field will disagree with me, though they will not openly talk about it either (don't want to lose our jobs).

The simply reason why blacks have the highest crime rate is because they have the smallest brains and lowest amount of collective intelligence. Nothing more. It's the same reason why east asians have the lowest crime rate and highest amount of intelligence of all races.

It does not take a genius to figure out that lower intelligence = higher crime, since crime is after all acts that are uncivilized. Rape, murder, etc, are all barbaric animal-like practices.



Connect the dots.

And don't dare cry racism, it get's old. It's not like I'm lying to you here, go to the morgue and have them split open the skull of a deceased white or asian male and then a deceased black male and then compare brain sizes. The former are much, much larger that you would actually be quite surprised at the difference. ~30% is a large amount.

No bias here, no racism. It's simple science that can be measured and tested.

[edit on 4-12-2008 by ProfessorGoldstein]