African Americans and Crime Rates in USA, WHY???, page 9
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reply posted on 5-12-2008 @ 02:40 AM by uberdave223
Originally posted by DarrylGalasso
reply to post by uberdave223


Are you really using wikipedia as a credible reference for anything other than how to make a peanut butter sandwich? This is a user based definition site, it is notoriously un-credible. I will be most happy to listen to anything you have to say, if you can provide some credible evidence not something I wouldn't allow a 4th grader to use as citation.

Better yet why not just take a little field trip to your local coroner's office and either ask him to see a pair of cadavers, one black male and one white male that has had head trauma and an autopsy, or ask him directly if he has witnessed this himself. Then come back and let us know what you have found.

I personally do not know as I have never studied or witnessed either cadaver's brain. So I will refrain from just voicing an opinion that has no basis in fact, or evidence. I would imagine though a coroner would gladly provide the information to you if he would not allow you to see for yourself.

[edit on 12/5/2008 by DarrylGalasso] to add another thought

[edit on 12/5/2008 by DarrylGalasso]


I used wikipedia for one out of quite a few references. My evidence for brain size differences not being proven did not come from wikipedia, it was actually among the last places I went to. And how are other " reputable sources" not user-generated? Are not all sources generated by people? Or am I falling into a straw-man argument? But I'll accept your desire to not use Wikipedia as this is not the place to debate it. So you may ignore the fact I used it if you would like.

About the coroner: He told me to go look at one, I told him to go look at one and now you are telling me to go look at one... So i guess I will if for some reason the burden of proof is now up to me! But please reference the scientific abstract I linked that showed no evidence of difference in brain size in the meantime, or provide evidence (if not you then somebody) of differences in brain size. Also, it is important to the statistics of brain size coming from a coroner if we look at one black, one white as compared to say, a large sampling, is it not? So what will seeing a very small sample, and assuming we find two physically identical black/white bodies really show? Isn't that a bit like flipping a coin, getting heads twice and claiming it will always be heads?


reply posted on 5-12-2008 @ 02:41 AM by uberdave223
Originally posted by DarrylGalasso
reply to post by ProfessorGoldstein


If this is the same Professor Goldstein I had 4 or 5 terms ago, I could not argue with her as she was without question the most intelligent person I have ever met and had the privilege to study under. One may feel free to disagree with her, but I can assure you, if in fact this is the same person, her information is well documented and easily proven.


Awesome, I just felt that there was very little "evidence" in this post, it seemed like opinion to me.


reply posted on 5-12-2008 @ 02:52 AM by DarrylGalasso
reply to post by uberdave223


You are in fact quite correct about the sampling, and believe me I was not trying to be malicious towards you in any way. I just cringe every time I see wiki as a citation. And you are in fact correct about everything being user defined; however, which would you trust if getting information that may save your child's life, wiki or something like cambridge.edu? That was the only point I was trying to make, I just do not trust information from wiki. And if I came across to you as being rude or mean spirited, I apologize.

Besides, I am Italian and we all know that Italian brains are 96% larger than any other. (This is a joke so please don't take it as my serious opinion).

Edited to add a little pun.

[edit on 12/5/2008 by DarrylGalasso]


reply posted on 5-12-2008 @ 02:58 AM by uberdave223
Originally posted by DarrylGalasso
reply to post by uberdave223


You are using statistics that are based in percentages. 24% of 10000 is 2400 where as 8% of 100,000 is 8 thousand. Statistics based in percentages are not raw numbers I am not saying that professor Goldstein is right (unless it is the same professor Goldstein I had, in which case I am familiar with the accuracy level she has demonstrated in my experiences; at which point I would agree with her) but I am saying that you are using statistics to say what you want them to say. The simple fact is just as I stated, a percentage is not a raw number and the comparison is similar to comparing apples and oranges. Get raw numbers to back your position and it will give you much more credibility. The government is famous for using percentage based statistics to get you to believe what they want you to believe. I hope you don't put much faith in that.


Perhaps I came across as too hostile in my post and for that I apologize as that was not my intent. I didn't call or accuse goldstein of being racist, just as I said above I felt it was entirely opinion based without any supporting evidence for such especially radical claims. Additionally when I've been doing a fair amount of studying recently on eugenics, social darwinism, etc.
You make a good point that I had overlooked, along with any information I get from the coroner tomorrow (it's 3:40 am here!) I will try to find some raw numbers. And not raw numbers just to back my position for position stake, I'm truly interested in getting at the truth of the matter.
I do have some questions on your point though to help clarify things for me: I understand if you use different numbers like 10,000 and 100,000, different percentages will mean different raw numbers. But in the statistics I quoted for the poverty numbers, I am having trouble seeing how it's inaccurate to say that a higher percentage of people in poverty are black. The way I understood the numbers (reading the whole press release page) was out of 7.7 million families in poverty, 24.9 percent of them were black, which was the highest percentage, which to me means also the highest number. I could be reading it wrong and perhaps it may mean 24 percent of black families are "poor," and 8% of white families are poor? Is that what you are saying?


reply posted on 5-12-2008 @ 02:59 AM by mimer
reply to post by ProfessorGoldstein

OK have to chime in on the cranium size-brain-intelligence theory...

Any program that seeks to relate brain weight, cranial capacity, or some other measure of overall brain size to individual performance ignores the reality of the brain's functional diversity. Thus, quite apart from the political or ethical probity of attempts to measure “intelligence” by brain size, by the yardstick of modern neuroscience (or simple common sense), this approach will inevitably generate more heat than light. A more rational approach to the issue, which has become feasible in the last few years, is to relate the size of measurable regions of known function (the primary visual cortex, for example) to the corresponding functions (visual performance), as well as to cellular features such as synaptic density and dendritic arborization. These correlations have greater promise for functional validity, and less pretense of judgment and discrimination.


brain size and intelligence

I'll give you an F for effort "professor".

Also don't confuse intelligence with social behavior, smart people can be anti social, abused, or psychopaths as well, which is a way more likely cause of following a violent criminal path than lack of intelligence.

But I think the biggest problem is that people tend to learn and imitate "accepted" behavior from the environment and the people they grow up around and respect, so it won't help growing up around thugs, and I do think the culture of the "hoods" (or today's violent TV shows) is a problem.

Just so you know, I don't agree with Ned Flanders on hardly anything...


reply posted on 5-12-2008 @ 03:04 AM by uberdave223
Originally posted by DarrylGalasso
reply to post by uberdave223


... however, which would you trust if getting information that may save your child's life, wiki or something like cambridge.edu? That was the only point I was trying to make, I just do not trust information from wiki. And if I came across to you as being rude or mean spirited, I apologize.

If wikipedia had a link to the cambridge.edu website, what's the difference? I definately see your point however and I think I'm going to start a thread soon on wikipedia because I really would like to have a thorough discussion on the subject. For one, because I'm a college student and have found it quite useful at times and just as accurate as any "official" source I cross-reference it with on every subject I've used it for thus far. Secondly, I'm studying to be a teacher, and I will probably have to be arguing just as you are in a few years


Besides, I am Italian and we all know that Italian brains are 96% larger than any other. (This is a joke so please don't take it as my serious opinion).

Edited to add a little pun.

[edit on 12/5/2008 by DarrylGalasso]

Made me laugh out loud, hopefully I did not wake anybody in my house up! I'm Irish and German, so unfortunately my ubermensch German side was destroyed by my alchoholic Irish side


reply posted on 5-12-2008 @ 03:10 AM by uberdave223
Originally posted by mimer
reply to post by ProfessorGoldstein


Also don't confuse intelligence with social behavior, smart people can be anti social, abused, or psychopaths as well, which is a way more likely cause of following a violent criminal path than lack of intelligence.



This is what I was trying to get at in my post, are "smart" people just better at getting away with crime? Doesn't that the guy at the top get others to do the "dirty" work, and you get really smart accountants to fudge the books? Maybe if we argue violent crimes are worse than embezzlement?
My fiance is studying for to be a CPA, and in many of her accounting classes she is shown ways to "bend" rules, and in some cases to outright break them without getting caught... She's a quiet person so she just chooses to listen but not do it, but it's probably a good thing I'm not in that class!
edit to add: I'm getting rambly because I'm getting tired so I will hop back on tomorrow to either heavily edit my posts or summarize better in my new one with coroner testimony, raw numbers, and coherent thoughts

[edit on 12/5/2008 by uberdave223]


reply posted on 5-12-2008 @ 03:16 AM by DarrylGalasso
reply to post by uberdave223


Again you could very well be correct. I interpreted it as 24% of the black population vs. 8% of the white population and I could very well be wrong and believe me it would not be the first, second, tenth, or even hundredth time I was wrong. In all actuality I cannot believe that I am even posting to this thread it is something that is not very interesting to me to begin with. The only reason I even opened it, was because I did a paper on poverty last semester. I did not include race in my paper though and if you go back to my very first post on this thread which I think is like 3 up from Professor Goldstein's post, it will basically give an overview of the paper I wrote. I sincerely hope this is the same professor Goldstein I had as an instructor, because if not, I am going to feel like an idiot defending her, lol. She always preferred being called by a different title though so this may very well not even be the same person.

Also I want to say I have enjoyed discussing this with you. You have been very cordial and not mean spirited about anything and this is what makes sites like this fun. When two people can respectfully disagree with each other, although I do not feel as though we are in any sort of disagreement, we still were on oposing sides of the fence. Thanks for some great dialogue.

[edit on 12/5/2008 by DarrylGalasso]

Some people just cannot spell, and I am one of them so this may get edited 30 times lol.

[edit on 12/5/2008 by DarrylGalasso]


reply posted on 5-12-2008 @ 05:33 AM by midnightbrigade
reply to post by GRANDWORLDDRAMA


again.. for a completely different reason...wow dude.....wow


reply posted on 5-12-2008 @ 05:44 AM by bloodcircle
Originally posted by Ex_MislTech
Originally posted by rizla
I think the root cause is poverty.


This is so correct, after all there are ZERO poor white ppl.

All white ppl are VERY well off.

Look here for proof:

Well off white ppl at the Shelter mooching

LOL

[edit on 4-12-2008 by Ex_MislTech]


Are you lol trying to lol say that all crime is caused by blacks lol?

Because, last time I heard about it, there were proportionate subsets of each group - black and white- and per capita the numbers were skewed, not entirely one sided.

First I've heard that it's an all or nothing situation.. lol




reply posted on 5-12-2008 @ 06:04 AM by bloodcircle
Originally posted by Amelie
Most "African's" don't belong in America or in Western Civilization? They belong in Africa, living their indigenous life, but the greed of European Capitalism and free labor destroyed that.


I can't tell if this is a rhetorical sentiment or not. Are you saying that to be true?

On the chance you are, then let me tell you that you try putting an American of African decent back into Africa and you have as much chance of obtaining a broken nose as you would were you try to put ME back into England.

If not, then you're statement loses something after the initial question mark?!

So you have violence and destruction in Africa and parts of the African Diaspora. It's like asking why is Alcoholism is so high in the Native American community. Their culture has been destroyed and they have been forced from the old world into the new. Black people have not been accepted in the U.S and that's evident only in the marriage rates. Most Whites do not want to live or mate with Blacks.


That TWO WAY street is well traveled, friend. Do you see black people lining up to marry whites only to be knocked back, or do you see the inevitable social intermingling that levels out the playing feild with people seeking familiarity with their kin?

That is HUMAN NATURE. It is inherent; not a product of racism or bigotry.

And you will find it in every culture/sub culture/click that exists in society, the country or the world.

Most African's Americans don't know who their ancestors are, even to the 3rd or 4th generation. Black ppl are displaced, don't know their true culture, or faith of their ancestors.


I don't bloody know who my ancestors are either. So flapping what? Do I now have a banner to fly, a flag to wave, a crisis to consume me? No.

It's mixing REAL problems with subtle stupidity such as things like this, that cause MORE problems than people need to deal with, and that ends up creating situations which seem untenable to those who have no ability to reason otherwise. People need to stop CREATING problems for others to have to deal with, when ultimately these problems affect ALL OF US. All.. not you *OR* me, but US.

Or can I now scream at people to get my land back that the Romans once took? Surely I am allowed to rant on that, as it is an injustice surely, that I lost something an ancestor farted on once, long long ago.



All that said, the NWO through the CIA pushes the drugs and guns in, just like they put heroin in the Black community in the 50's and created the drug psychedelic movement for White youth. AIDS is also a bio weapon used against Sub Saharan Africans. Add in the legacy of Slavery and Jim Crow.... it's a wonder any Black person can succeed.


I dunno, It seems to me that if you want to succeed, you can. Proven to me by the very fact that the president of the USA is a proud Black man.

But you can keep your perpetual cycle of downtrodden inequality going for yourself. Thank god smart people know better.....


reply posted on 5-12-2008 @ 06:38 AM by gnosis111
reply to post by Mozzy


But, that correlates to a much higher percentage per capita of black people does it not. If I'm not mistaken the U.S. is only 20% black.

It is a poverty issue, most whites in jail or prison are white trash. For the record I am white and have served time.
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