Infinity is indeed infinite.

reply to post by Demandred


"ive always thought that maybe our universe is contained in nothing more than a atom or particle of a bigger universe which is contained .... etc etc etc"

This is exactly the theory I have always had!!
It's so weird to hear that someone else has thought that this could maybe be possible too.

reply to post by difsjf


whats even weirder is if we look down far enough into a atom or particle will we eventually see another universe?

kinda puts a new spin on the atom smasher

for all we know the LHC might be making new universes by smashing atoms, maybe that ws the big bang an atom smasher outside our universe and the dispersion of particles may be perceieved by us as billions of years only lasts for mere hundredth of a second in the bigger reality ...

i think i blew a brain fuse !?!

[edit on 3-12-2008 by Demandred]

reply to post by nyarlathotep


Matter is a finite quantity within an infinite span of space.

Space isn't expanding, the Universe is expanding within Space.

You're confusion is simply because you confused the material universe with the infinite space around it.

Easy mistake to make, the English language can be restrictive at times.



Now, to the Original Poster.

Now that you have gotten your mind to break the "finite" barrier...
I have a little bit of brain food for ya.

Given that time is infinite, and the Material Universe (not space itself) is expanding and has at some point come into existence.
This would tell you that at some point it has to cease to exist.

Now, given that the Material Universe we exist in at present has existed, means there's a definite probability of a Material Universe coming into existence.

If there is a definite probability of a Material Universe spawning, then after this one is gone, another will replace it, it's just a matter of time.

Given that time is infinite, this transition will occur an infinite number of times, a universe is born, the universe collapses, another replaces it, and another replaces it, and another... infinitely.

Given that the Material Universes will be replaced an infinite number of times, means there will and has been an infinite number of variations of universes.

Given the nature of infinity... this universe, as it exists right now, will occur again, as it is a statistical probability within an infinite number of other possibilities.

Also, given the nature of an infinite time span, this universe won't just exist again, it will exist an infinite number of times... as will all the other possibilities.

Essentially, given the nature of infinity, you will exist an infinite number of times.

The only problem is, there will be an almost infinite times span between existences... and you won't know you've existed before, because technically it wasn't you, just an exact copy.

... and there will also be an infinite number of times you weren't born.
... an infinite number of times the earth was never created.
... and so on.
... an infinite number of variant Material Universes, existing an infinite number of times.

Ponder that one for a while.
I did, mostly because I realized it myself and wasn't told... but it certainly tripped me up for a while.

Try wrapping your head around this one:

Quick synopsis of the basics of M theory....

reply to post by johnsky


This is similiar to the point I was trying to make. But you went into more detail..thanks!!

Infinity is relative to time. There has to be a correlation between both.

How many times do I have to write this to explain the infinite possabilities of my point!!!

reply to post by stander


i say two parallel lines that stretch to infinity will NEVER meet, no matter the affect of gravity. the lines would bend, and twist, but still run parallel. if the meet...they are not parallel. what say you.
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[edit on 3-12-2008 by AKARonco]

[edit on 3-12-2008 by AKARonco]

Originally posted by AKARonco
reply to post by stander

 

i say two parallel lines that stretch to infinity will NEVER meet, no matter the affect of gravity. the lines would bend, and twist, but still run parallel. if the meet...they are not parallel. what say you.

__________________________________________________________
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Two parallel light beams some two thousand light years apart and on the same plane both pass by two very massive stars. The effect of gravity on the photons slightly curves both paths and the light beams eventually cross each other.

reply to post by stander


great diagram and explaination!

so if the light from distant bodies we are measureing isnt actually travelling in a straight line, where does that leave our numerous scientific theories hinged on the speed of light?

P.S i dont seriously expect you to asnwer that, it is somewhat rhetorical!

reply to post by die_another_day



Not only is the universe finite, but space and time itself are quantized so that you can not divide it into infinitesimal pieces. Calculus doesn't work on the universe, since the universe is not continuous and is nowhere differentiable.

Thats because of the random process that underlies the vacuum energy.

God can count up all the possible configurations in his head.

Originally posted by Zeus187
reply to post by stander

 

so if the light from distant bodies we are measureing isnt actually travelling in a straight line, where does that leave our numerous scientific theories hinged on the speed of light?

P.S i dont seriously expect you to asnwer that, it is somewhat rhetorical!

Well, have you ever noticed that when driving alongside a long winding road the odometer ocassionally fails to show the speed you are travelling?

No?

That's because some measurements don't require a straight line to fit the yardstick, and the same goes for light. The first attempt to measure light dates back to the 17th century. Since the last measurement was done back in 1973 with the help of lasers, you see that the scientists are very much comfortable with the value measured. Here is a link to the history of the measurement of light:
math.ucr.edu...

The idea that light doesn't travel in a straight line in the universe full of gravitational influences is not a theory; it is a fact based on direct observation called "garvitational lensing."
imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Here is a better picture of the effect.


Thiese particular cases are also called "Einstein Cross."

[edit on 12/4/2008 by stander]

reply to post by stander


its awesome stuff that!

i spent a good couple of hours looking it up!

its not something id ever thought of, light being bent by gravity alone...

Originally posted by johnsky
reply to post by nyarlathotep

 

Matter is a finite quantity within an infinite span of space.

Space isn't expanding, the Universe is expanding within Space.

You're confusion is simply because you confused the material universe with the infinite space around it.

Easy mistake to make, the English language can be restrictive at times.



Now, to the Original Poster.

Now that you have gotten your mind to break the "finite" barrier...
I have a little bit of brain food for ya.

Given that time is infinite, and the Material Universe (not space itself) is expanding and has at some point come into existence.
This would tell you that at some point it has to cease to exist.

Now, given that the Material Universe we exist in at present has existed, means there's a definite probability of a Material Universe coming into existence.

If there is a definite probability of a Material Universe spawning, then after this one is gone, another will replace it, it's just a matter of time.

Given that time is infinite, this transition will occur an infinite number of times, a universe is born, the universe collapses, another replaces it, and another replaces it, and another... infinitely.

Given that the Material Universes will be replaced an infinite number of times, means there will and has been an infinite number of variations of universes.

Given the nature of infinity... this universe, as it exists right now, will occur again, as it is a statistical probability within an infinite number of other possibilities.

Also, given the nature of an infinite time span, this universe won't just exist again, it will exist an infinite number of times... as will all the other possibilities.

Essentially, given the nature of infinity, you will exist an infinite number of times.

The only problem is, there will be an almost infinite times span between existences... and you won't know you've existed before, because technically it wasn't you, just an exact copy.

... and there will also be an infinite number of times you weren't born.
... an infinite number of times the earth was never created.
... and so on.
... an infinite number of variant Material Universes, existing an infinite number of times.

Ponder that one for a while.
I did, mostly because I realized it myself and wasn't told... but it certainly tripped me up for a while.

=D you're pretty much right. Now I'm thinking how de heck can the above ever happen to me, how is this POSSIBLE?

[edit on 12/4/2008 by die_another_day]

reply to post by nj2day


i cant view vids cause i am at work but i looked it up on wiki i got to about this part "1-dimensional slices of a 2-dimensional membrane vibrating in 11-dimensional space" and my brain shut down

reply to post by stander


ok, but at that point they cease to be parallel, right?
actually i was thinking more along the lines of 2 lines very close together will bend equally with gravity and change directions, but still run parallel.

[edit on 4-12-2008 by AKARonco]

Originally posted by AKARonco
reply to post by stander

 

ok, but at that point they cease to be parallel, right?

actually i was thinking more along the lines of 2 lines very close together will bend equally with gravity and change directions, but still run parallel.

[edit on 4-12-2008 by AKARonco]

Nothing tangible in the real word runs parallel. Only things that are parallel are those lines created by the equations in algebra.

Originally posted by AKARonco
reply to post by stander

 

ok, but at that point they cease to be parallel, right?

actually i was thinking more along the lines of 2 lines very close together will bend equally with gravity and change directions, but still run parallel.

If both beams of light are close to each other than the distance between them will not change to the point that the difference could be measured -- they will stay parallel. But remember that there is no change small enough to challenge infinity. so if one beam curves 0.00000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000001 times more than the other at one point, both beams will eventually cross each other -- providing that the empty space beyond the universe doesn't have an end and photons somewhat don't decay after being quadrillions years in existence.



[edit on 12/4/2008 by stander]

*************************************************************
I believe the point of infinity is merely the fact that as physical beings we cannot leave this plane so in essence yes this is infinity. Even if you were to reach the end you would be looped back to the other side so therefor there is no beginning or end in the universe simply a sustained reaction that we cannot escape from. Sort of like being in a bubble but when your head goes out one side it comes back in on the other.*****************

[edit on 5-12-2008 by Lokey13]

reply to post by die_another_day


i agree completely.
but this is a set of hypothetical parallel lines. and realistically even the example i gave im sure that the line closer to the gravitational pull, would have an ever so slightly larger pull on it, therefor the lines would diverge at that point. but... this is hypothetical, and i am not sure im spelling that right

[edit on 5-12-2008 by AKARonco]

reply to post by stander


i have to disagree on that, because the line that would bend more, would be the one closer to the pull, therefor the lines would slowly drift apart, not crossing, but not parallel anymore either.

Originally posted by AKARonco
reply to post by stander

 

i have to disagree on that, because the line that would bend more, would be the one closer to the pull, therefor the lines would slowly drift apart, not crossing, but not parallel anymore either.

Lets try normal lines created by equations:

Theoretically,

y=2x+1 and
y=2x+4

are parallel by definition.

However, as x -> infinity

both y's will -> infinity resulting in the theoretical intersection

(infinity, infinity)