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Infinity is indeed infinite.

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posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 05:03 PM
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I have started a thread about infinity a long time ago, at that time I was driven absolutely nuts by the idea of infinite space and time.

BUT

Today in physics, I came to the absolute realization that this vast "space" IS infinite. Never been so clear to me before that there is no BEGINNING of time nor any boundaries to "space."

Calculus helped me to realize that infinity is real and that we live in an unfathomable infinite space in which there could even be more than 1 "universe," not in different dimensions, but in different locations of this infinite space.

Although I succumbed to this final conclusion, the concept of infinity is still yet hard to take in.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 05:09 PM
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looking at infinite from a finite perpsective is difficult... As our minds have evolved to understand what is pertinent to us as a species...

it gets murkier too... where "space" is infinite, the universe is not lol

the question of time being infinite is easier to grasp... but if you throw in the fact that time is relative... it goes all convoluted again lol

can time exist if there is nothing for it to be relative to?

Stephen Hawkings "A brief History of Time" is awesome if you haven't read it yet...



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 05:13 PM
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It's just a concept. There is no way we will ever experience it, but we can model it to give us useful finite results. Imaginary numbers are similar, totally unimaginable, but useful none the less. The mathematicians secret: Look at what they can do for you, don't blind yourself with what it is. Biblical Religion is the reversal of that: Blind yourself and don't look at what you can do.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by die_another_day
 

Things are much easier if you separate real from imaginary: there is abstract infinity used in math, such as calculus, and there is physical infinity, which every cosmologist tries to stay away from.

If you combine both concepts, a new field of mathematics, such as the non-Euclidian geometry shows up.

The abstract concept of infinity led Euclid to say that two parallel lines never meet even if they are "infinitely" long.
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But if these lines exist in the space as the path of two photons, for example, they will not stay parallel for long, because space is "curved" by gravitational influence.

But even in the abstract domain, Euclid's parallel lines theorem doesn't hold true when you switch from 2D to 3D.


You can see that those two latitude parallel lines meet at the poles, even though the angle at the equator is 90 degrees.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 06:12 PM
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We always seem to think of infinity as outgoing, never ending large... but try to think of infinity as ingoing, never ending small...

You can always break a piece into two halfs... zoom in on the one half piece and break that to half...zoom in again and break that to half...etc etc

Infinity large and infinity small.... this has helped my perspective of infinity



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by stander
 


Philosphical point is:

1. Two parallel lines never meet until infinity
2. Two parallel lines meet at infinity.

3. It is mathematical construct and doesn't have much to do with gravity.

Bluess: Yep, on your wavelength.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by redled
reply to post by stander
 


Philosphical point is:



3. It [infinity] is mathematical construct and doesn't have much to do with gravity.

Consequence:

Since gravity is a very important tool that modifies the shape of the universe, and gravity doesn't have much to do with infinity, then a speculation about the physical infinity of the universe got nothing much to do with philosophy.

True or false?



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 06:37 PM
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im so tough i counted to infinity ..... TWICE !!!!


its difficault to grasp Infinity it seems the human mind recoils at the thought of it and tries to give it a boundary, perhapse the universe is finite and what contains the universe is infinite, maybe infinity doesnt exist its just distances are so vast that for all intents and purposes it may as well be infinite.

ive always thought that maybe our universe is contained in nothing more than a atom or particle of a bigger universe which is contained .... etc etc etc

anyway this kind of discussion gives me a head ache to think about



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by stander

Originally posted by redled
reply to post by stander
 


Philosphical point is:



3. It [infinity] is mathematical construct and doesn't have much to do with gravity.

Consequence:

Since gravity is a very important tool that modifies the shape of the universe, and gravity doesn't have much to do with infinity, then a speculation about the physical infinity of the universe got nothing much to do with philosophy.

True or false?



I'm not talking about the universe which in my perspective is the expanding cluster of tangible particles.

I'm talking about space, the nothingness beyond this "universe" which is everlasting and infinitely large.


But the 2 parallel lines meeting at infinity is rather interesting...



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 06:45 PM
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Infinity is easier to comprehend than its reverse I think. If space is finite, what lies beyond it? Infinity is neither provable or verifiable. Perhaps it is just a bookmark in our minds to let us get beyond the question of what lies beyond space? Or perhaps it is just easier to swallow than if the answer were, nothing?

[edit on 12/2/2008 by Blaine91555]



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 06:49 PM
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“The fear of infinity is a form of myopia that destroys the possibility of seeing the actual infinite, even though it in its highest form has created and sustains us, and in its secondary transfinite forms occurs all around us and even inhabits our minds.”

A quote by Georg Cantor, a german mathematician, which I think fits very well here.




posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 06:53 PM
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Remember: As above - so below, as outside - so inside. The Universe is infinite at every direction. So it's infinite towards the level of particles and so forth. At the end you meet the same infinity - the circle goes back to it's beginning. I think the "outer" Universe and our "inner" Universe is very similar if not identical. So if consciousness creates time and space - then we can say that the Universe ends where WE stop , like if we had a spaceship that can travel by multi-lightspeed. If we go further, we find more worlds and space. But the end of our Universe is only the space around you that you can percieve with your five senses. That's all. If you see the Iraq war on the tv, the only reality to you is a box where there are pictures and sounds, and people telling you things. But it's not reality, because you're not there in time and space. So the only reality is the time and space that you are in right now. My opinion. Any further ideas?



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


But we can prove that infinity is non-provable and non-verifable. That is a good place to start from.
Can infinity be affected by time? Is it only a matter of time before you reach infinity or because of infinity you will never run out of time???



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 07:05 PM
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The problem right now is that this petty race hasn't even gone out of the solar system yet.

I don't think humans are the only life in the universe, thus infinity is not defined by us but instead by nature.

Space and universe is not the same. Space is the nothingness and the universe is what I previously said, the expansion of particles.

Space is infinite, its logical. There are no boundaries to nothingness because it's nothingness. Beyond another physical barrier nothingness exists again.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by die_another_day

I'm not talking about the universe which in my perspective is the expanding cluster of tangible particles.

I'm talking about space, the nothingness beyond this "universe" which is everlasting and infinitely large.

That "region beyond the universe" is the place that the cosmologists never consider, because cosmology is a science and not a pure philosophy.

The philosophy of origins divides all origin on abstract and physical with a common denominator question: What is the origin of nothing?

Abstract nothing cannot be measured, only symbolized by number zero. But what is the origin of physical nothing?

If the region occupied by our universe was once the part of the nothingness that lies beyond our universe, how did the Big Bang originate? What turned that nothing into something?



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by die_another_day
The problem right now is that this petty race hasn't even gone out of the solar system yet.

I don't think humans are the only life in the universe, thus infinity is not defined by us but instead by nature.

Space and universe is not the same. Space is the nothingness and the universe is what I previously said, the expansion of particles.

Space is infinite, its logical. There are no boundaries to nothingness because it's nothingness. Beyond another physical barrier nothingness exists again.



without quibbling, if there is nothingness, then there is nothing, and if theres nothing then where did the universe come from ?

so in what we perceive to be nothing there would have to be something or else the universe wouldnt have been created yes?


would that then make it somethingness?

erg *reaches for the asprin again* i gotta stay outta this thread


[edit on 2-12-2008 by Demandred]



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 09:47 PM
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I tried staying away from this topic for so long, but it pops up so many times because I'm taking Calc II.

The universe is a f'ing paradox:
No beginning of the universe? Matter out of no where?

Sometimes I even doubt our very existence, which is crazy... because even if we live in a Matrix world, the "real" "physical" world will still be infinite.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by die_another_day
Space is infinite, its logical. There are no boundaries to nothingness because it's nothingness.

If there are no boundaries to nothingness, then why do we use number zero to symbolize nothing, when 0 is an empty region bound by an oval?

[edit on 12/2/2008 by stander]



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 10:40 PM
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Hey OP,
Man oh man you just have to look into the mathematics of infinity by Georg Cantor. Trust me you won't be dissapointed. This guy was scoffed at by all the academia Ego's at the time, but no in etrospect is considered genius.



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 10:55 PM
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I have a serious question. If the universe is infinite, how can it be expanding? How can you expand on infinity?




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