Breaking News: Canadian Government to Fall, Liberal and NDP Parties Negotiating Coalition Government

Breaking News: Canadian Government to Fall, Liberal and NDP Parties Negotiating Coalition Government

www.ctv.ca
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.cbc.ca

Finally the Opposition Parties have truly gained some backbone. Here's to hoping that the Liberals and the NDP will be able to put their differences aside for the better good of putting Stephen Harper and his manipulative political party out of a job here in Canada.

I am sorry to rant, but the Conservative party proved during the election campaign as well as after they were re-elected, that they have NO reasonable plan for this current economic situation, nor do I think that they have an actual grasp on what's actually going on right now (point in fact, Harper's back and forth flip flopping statements on how this situation could be handled, mere hours between making contradictory statements).

I'm not saying a Liberal/NDP coalition is the best thing that could happen right now, but it is certainly better than the Conservatives strategy of having a "balanced budget, so long as nothing else rattles the economy between now and 2011" (which anyone with a grade 11 education or higher knows that won't be the case).

I'm not a huge supporter of the Liberal party these days, but the fact is that we had pretty damn good books under the Liberal government, we had a good surplus, but under the last 2 and a half years of Stephen Harper and his "Conservatives" (I use that term lightly because they are only Conservative in name), we have pissed away that surplus and will no longer have our financial buffer zone to protect us from what has happened in the United States.

Now, at this point I could go into how our financial buffer zone was probably spent/pissed away on purpose and how this financial meltdown is probably pre-meditated so that the truly rich/powerful can make even more gains on their portfolios...but I will save that for the proper forum.

www.ctv.ca
(visit the link for the full news article)

Personally I think you are wrong. I am no supporter of Harper, but he is better than the rest of the choices we have. He is the man for the job right now.

If this report is correct and this is what is happening, you will see a Conservative majority. They would have to have another election, and most Canadians would be pissed at having to go to the polls again so soon. They would take it out on the Liberals and NDP. This would make no sense for them at all. The Liberals were terrible with our money when we weren't in a financial crunch, how are they going to be in one? And we won't even talk about the NDP and their reach for the stars spending attitude. These parties will bankrupt the country.

Cretien and Broadbent are relics from a era that has past, they should stay there. If the Liberals want to gain any traction, they will forget Ignatieff and got with Trudeau. Sure the West will still hate the Liberals, but Quebec and Ontario will get behind him like the Second Coming.

Under any other circumstance, with the current political leaders of the opposition parties, I would agree with you 100% on the fact that Stephen Harper is the best choice out of all possible options; however, things have changed.

Our government is getting nothing done and hasn't gotten anything done for quite some time, because the Conservatives feel that they can bully the Opposition into compliance (knowing that it's not in their best interests to have a snap election called), topped with inadequate opposition leadership in Stephan Dion.

Our fellow Canadians know that it is not a time to play these ridiculous political games that the Conservatives are creating and the Liberal leadership plays along with, and I think that Canadians will support a multi-party coalition government that can get things done quicker than a bullying minority government that got re-elected solely on the fact that in most Canadian's minds Harper was a better choice for Prime Minister than Stephan Dion.

As far as triggering an election, that is why the Opposition parties are discussing a coalition government; because here in Canada, if the minority government falls and the opposition wants to avoid an election, they are able to take control of the government and run a coalition government (because with the combined Party votes, the coalition would have a majority government). So this coalition is being worked out to avoid another election.

I'm not sure what you're referring to about how the Liberal government was bad with our money in the past, as they were much more effective in managing our finances than the Conservatives. I think you have the words "Conservative party" and "Liberal party" mixed up a little bit. Your comment about the NDP though, I agree with and history has backed that up; however, I think that the Liberals, NDP and Bloc will be able to keep each other in balance...although maybe I'm giving an opinion on that a little bit too soon.

PS, thank you for debating this civilly as opposed to just flaming or something...it's a welcome surprise!

reply to post by matth

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Hi Matth:

It's an interesting situation. I think that one of the reasons that Dion did so poorly (only one of them) was because he showed no backbone and kept propping up Harper. The two Liberal frontrunners at this time understand that they cannot do that and get elected. Also, there is no way that the oposition parties will let Harper take away a part of thier funding. I think there is a good chance this will happen, and I like the idea of shifting left.

But I'm wondering, no party ever gets reelected after or during a recession. They all get thrown out. Is Harper anticipating that the Libs and Dems will try to form a government and then get battered in the pools because of the coming major recession. Is he dreading having to try to work with Obama, who will force him to move to the left? maybe he wants to wait on the sidelines for a year or two....

Forgetting the politicians for a minute.
How does this affect the Canadian public itself?

Anyone shed some light on this?

reply to post by matth

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I was under the impression that they would still have to go to an election to switch governing parties. Which would make sense to me, since it was not the Liberals that "won". Personally I hate all the backroom politics that happens up here, no matter which side it comes from. Few years back it was the PCs and NDP trying to backdoor the Liberals, now it is the NDP and Liberals backdooring the PCs. It is just us the people that suffer for it. As much as I like our freedom of choice up here better than the 2 party system of the south, it really just waters down the government. We need a couple of strong, charismatic leaders for the parties. I get tired of seeing the stuttering deer-in-the-headlights Liberal candidates against the personality-of-a-wet-paperbag Conservative.

My take on the Liberals from a few years back was that they were unwilling to spend any money. They had grand plans but didn't do anything, and just let the money sit there. Then they would pour it all into some sinkhole idea such as gun registry which by accounts has been a colossal failure reaching epic proportions. The PCs at least spend what we have and don't go over.

This new economic "crisis", if you want to call it that since it doesn't seem to be affecting anything up here at all really, pretty much blind sided us. I don't think it would matter which party was in charge at the time, it would have had the same result. I would like to see what kind of plans the Liberals and NDP have to "save the day", before I put any kind of support towards them. As much as I hate to say it, I trust the Conservatives more with our money than the AdScam Liberals.

First of all the Canadian Government is not about to fall.The title of this thread is misleading.
One party is just getting a new butthole ripped into them.
This doesn't affect us as a public because we aren't the ones trying to stay in power.Its just the politicians playing the blame game and trying to capatilize off of it to gain more seats for their party.
Its just politics as usual.

It all depends on what part of the country you are from. If you are from the West, where most of the money comes from oil and other resource revenue, it will be a catastrophe, since the Liberal party and NDP want to apply a "Carbon Tax" to all natural resource recovery. This would effectively cut off those industries at the knee. It would be the new term for the National Energy Program, which tried to take the vast majority of the money that Alberta made off of it's resources and give it to the have not provinces.

The way I can explain it is imagine Obama won the election, and the republicans and the Independents decided he wasn't doing a good enough job in March and teamed up and took over the government.

reply to post by Silenceisall

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Hi Silenceisall, I think those are some pretty interesting questions you've got there. Personally, I believe that Stephen Harper will be the one thrown out over the recession, and this is what we are seeing.

I know that one of the major issues with this Economic Update was the fact that the Conservatives were cutting public funding to political parties (which will only hurt the smaller parties like the Greens, and not the already well funded Liberals like the Conservatives will have you believe), and it realistically was probably what sent the Opposition parties over the edge; but I do believe that the Canadian people have not been blind to the Conservative's lack of planning for this worldwide financial crisis, and they will hold the Conservative's accountable.

I too, wouldn't be surprised to see Harper leave the spotlight for a while only to come back in a few years...

reply to post by Silenceisall

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My honest opinion on this is that Harper and his gang of lib-servatives want out of this mess as soon as possible.

We've all heard the doom and gloom and forebodings of economic collapse in 2009, and I really don't think Harper wants to be linked to being the captain of a doomed ship.

Realistically, while Canada has been relatively sheltered from the global ongoings, there's reason to be nervous. Pundits anticipate that a considerable amount of the automotive sector that remains in Canada will be gone soon, repatriated to the US as part of a second stage of the bailout, once the automakers use up the paltry $25 billion they stand to split from Washington.

The oil industry will continue to take its lumps for the next few years. Lets face it, at $50 a barrel, the tar sands projects are not profitable. With new construction basking in the fires of economic hell, the lumber industry will continue in decline.

These things are about to catch up with Canadians in a horrible, nasty, rather unwarranted way, but thus is the nature of the global economy . . . we basically all sink or swim together regardless of how we feel about that undeniable link.

Harper and his party are avoiding the issue right now and will get out of dealing with it altogether shortly when the nearsightedness of the coalition parties comes to fruition.

Its a really good move on the liberal and ndps side. The conservatives are trying to do away with legistation that would cut off funding for all the parties during the election and only allow them to rely on corporate sponsors, which would always put them ahead of the game. The conservatives have a large private election campaign funding, as they appeal to the super wealthy. So the other parties said, no! We will join together and vote you down. This immediately forces another election, or we can form a coalition government and run things. Its a bit more than corporate funding though, its eliminating the 1.75 tax payers subsidy for all parties, but it hurts the fringe parties the worst.

Very intelligent move. This is exactly why I prefer minority governments. The move they were doing would have made our electoral process even more one sided, and this shows the power of the opposition.

[edit on 28-11-2008 by mystiq]

How can you trust the Conservatives more with our money? Do you follow the Canadian political climate or do you just listen to the pundits on CTV and CBC and read the newspaper headlines?

During this year's election campaign, Stephen Harper told Canadians over and over again that our economy was safe...that we would not be in a recession and that the Conservatives would be the ones who "save the day". He would say this while his party didn't even have an election platform and no real economic plan (up until the "Economic Update" released yesterday).

Once he gets re-elected, he tells us that in fact we may ALREADY be in a recession and won't know until next year when the numbers are released; and while he was telling Canadians that, he was in Peru with the other leaders of the economic world standing with other world leaders saying that this global economic crisis will be over within 18 months, only to return to Canada days later saying he didn't actually agree with the joint statement he signed onto, and it would take much longer to solve this economic crisis.

So either he doesn't have even the slightest grasp on what is happening right now in the world, or he's just playing spineless politician games...EITHER option we cannot afford to have around in power right now.

A better option would be a coalition of multiple parties that are WILLING to work together, but at the same time are willing to keep each other in check. Isn't that what a minority government should be anyway, if the Conservatives would be willing to actually run the government as a minority as opposed to just butting heads with the Opposition?

And going back to my point on money being trusted with the Conservatives, that is just ONE example of a lack of Conservative understanding of the seriousness of this economic situation. And if you think Canada is exempt from this world economic situation, you are mistaken.

Another example would be him giving American style tax breaks to big business, while lowering GST by 2% over 2 years to keep us happy, all while he SHOULD (as our leader and head of government) of been aware of the looming financial crisis and not of made either of those tax breaks. Why? Because a 2% GST reduction is nothing to the average Canadian purchases (it works out to saving 2 cents on the dollar, or $2 for every $100 spent...it's nothing but a sham and a way to shut us up from complaining if you really think about it), while cutting 2% out of the total GST coming into the federal government is a large chunk of change, along with the corporate tax breaks, is irresponsible as we need all of the tax money coming in as possible.

Stephen Harper is a great debater and a great public speaker, nothing more. A good example would be the fact that two years later, you are still bringing up the Liberal sponsorship "scandal". As far as that "scandal" goes, unless you are willing to have a serious debate with me about the sponsorship scandal, and unless you know the actual story surrounding the situation, and not just the newspaper headlines you read or the Conservative talking points you heard, then I just wouldn't go there. It's the equivalent of the CEO of a billion-dollar company being fired from his job because a Junior-VP was caught stealing a million dollars from the fictional company's newspaper advertising budget.

However, to the Conservative's credit, they were able to manipulate and rile up the public so much that as far as the public knows, Jean Chretien and Paul Martin may as well of stolen the money themselves!

I think the pro-Conservative readers need to look at this coalition as a combination of the NDP and Liberals, where neither can survive or get laws passed without the other...as opposed to looking at this coalition as another Liberal government. I think we all know that the NDP and Liberals are very different parties, and will truly keep each other in balance the way it should be.

Just wanted to comment on this. It is not true. The oilsands make money at $11/bbl. When they start crying about $50/bbl, it is all just a game, they want some sympathy. I was working oilfield 10 years ago when oil was at $13/bbl. Times were tight, but they were still making money, just not very much. Even though they are only making half the profit they were in the summer, they are still wallowing in money right now.

reply to post by matth

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That is a long post. I will try to reply to it as best I can.

As I said before, I want none of the parties as they are now to be in charge. I would prefer to have a real leader running the country. But since we don't have that option, I prefer what we have. I think the best solution would almost be an American style government where we vote for a leader and not a party. Let him pick the cabinet from what gets elected, despite party lines. The system we have now is completely ineffective, from the MPs, to the Senate, to the Prime Minister. Until we can find a way to change it, this is all we can expect to get.

Maybe, being in Alberta, I am insulated form alot of what is going on in the rest of the country. We are not experiencing any slowdown at all and still can't find enough workers to fill our jobs. I am sure that eventually it will catch up to us, but who knows when that will be. I think that any fallout that does occur from this, needs to be blamed not on Stephen Harper, but on Jean Cretien, Brian Mulroney, Trudeau, and keep going back ad nauseum. Canada has tied itself too firmly to the US out of sheer laziness, so that anything that happens there is reflected up here. It would have made more sense to divest ourselves gradually of the US and spread more of our economic ties globally. It is possibly too late for that now, and we will pay for it.

Maybe some of the Auto manufacturing jobs leaving here and going back south is not a bad idea. This will open up the Canadian market to more offshore investment. It would be nice to see companies from Europe and Japan to take over those plants already built and use them build their vehicles. Thus giving us some of the jobs back, but with a more secure company than we have had before.

Getting back to the politics. I would like to see a government made up of all the parties. Input from everyone is never a bad thing. A more cohesive government would, I think, garner more confidence from the electorate, than all the undermining and backstabbing that has been happening in the last 30 years. Give us a government that is willing to work together for the greater good of the country and us the people, than at the expense of the other parties and essentially the people. I guarantee that if we citizens see them tear down party lines and make truly herculean efforts to work together, that we will set our politics aside and work together as well.

I am sure I missed a buttload of stuff that you touched on, but I got the important parts...I think.

The Tory's got the most seats, the means they form the government. The only way to attempt to form another one would be to topple they Tory's and NO ONE wants another election, except the Tory's.

The Lib's need a new leader before they try anything. Trudeau? WAY too soon for this pup. Canadians will want to see what he's made of. They won't just vote on his legacy.

The problem is that no one else in the entire Liberal party has the reputation that Trudeau has. Everyone is is either a nobody or a never was, except Ignatieff who is just, well...let's him be for now. They seemed to have blown through all the credibility they had in the last 2 elections. While Trudeau may be young and unproven, he is the only chance they have to take back Quebec. Without him, they will never get a majority back. All roads lead through the Trudeau Legacy. As painful as it seems, the Canadian political landscape is devoid of life. We need something to spark us out of our apathy.

reply to post by Rook1545

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I apologize for the abnormally long post, and I agree with what you are saying in your last post. A United States type government, where the Prime Minister is elected separate from the MP's (along with an elected Senate) is something I would love to see, as it would truly (in theory) bring a true balance of power in government.

By the way, about your comment about being in Alberta and possibly not seeing what's happening in other parts of the country may be correct, as it's exactly what happened to me when I was living in Alberta.

I moved to Alberta from the east in order to make more money, as I knew there was no future career wise for me in eastern Canada. When I moved to Alberta, I was blown away by how easy jobs were available as well as the starting wages for these jobs.

Jobs are so good in Alberta that I find sometimes it's the employee running the show while the employer tries everything in their power to keep the employee around. I'm talking everything, too...I knew people who were making $15/hour clearing tables at McDonalds all the way up to the oil field sector jobs.

Then, I moved to British Columbia, and was in for a rude awakening; as I realized that it's really only Alberta experiencing this current boom, while the rest of the country isn't in such good shape. You go back to the near-minimum wage payrates, the part-time only hours so that no benefits have to be paid, and the usual BS that protects the company and not the worker...it also happens to be the same BS that doesn't exist much in Alberta. Heck, the town I live in recently had the local pulp-mill close down, which employed a good chunk of people in this town. So, after months and months of no help from their government, each laid off employee invested $25,000 each of their own money into the company, just to keep it in business so that they would have the privilege of going to work to make a living for their family. That's one example of what I'm sure are many examples from all across our great country.

But, looking at how Alberta is currently, I totally understand why you would want a Conservative government still running the show as opposed to the other option currently on the table, and it's also understandable why the province of Alberta consists of all Conservative ridings.

Agreed, the Tory's do have the most seats, but they do not have enough to form a majority government. Therefore, if the NDP and Liberals formed this coalition government they are currently trying to work out, then they would have enough democratically elected seats in Parliament to topple the Conservatives, while using their seats to continue running the government (as a coalition majority)...hence, no election would be needed. It's kind of a back door, slimy way to do things, but it's legal and it works.

We should all understand that we are not talking about another election here, we are talking about the minority government being voted out due to non-confidence, and three parties (which combined did receive more Canadian votes/support than the Torys) keeping Parliament running with their house seats/votes. I think the odds of another election are pretty slim

reply to post by matth

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For me it is not necessarily to keep the Conservatives in, it is to keep the others out. I guess it is mostly a survival instinct. Why would I vote for the guys that have openly stated they want to destroy our economy? It seems to me that everyone has gotten into the mentality of voting for the people that will screw them over the least.

Canada is very interesting country. What works out East will not work in Alberta/Saskatchewan. What works here will not work in BC. Nothing works in the Maritimes, Quebec or Manitoba since they seem to have no idea what they want. I am sure that there is some kind of solution, but I'll be damned if I know what it is.