The Illuminati, Satanism,Rothschild, Franklin and me

reply to post by hightower


I have some more bad news for you and your relative Sir Francis, according to documentation that Dr. Walter Veith gives in one of his lectures Sir Francis was also a Jesuit.

I find it interesting that very few posts in ATS talk about the Jesuit Rome influence on all the world. Look into our own American history and read the letters of Jefferson, Adams and even Lincoln to see what they said of the Jesuit influence, you may be flabbergasted when you do.

You can probably find the video of Dr. Veith's online the one I am referring to where he names Sir Francis is called "Total Onslaught - Revolutions, Tyrants & Wars (2004)". You may glean some more information from this video on your relatives relationship with these societies and particularly the Society of Loyola's known as the Jesuits...

Hope this helps you out some...

Does anyone have any information on Benjamin Franklin's involvement in the HellFire club? Was Franklin known for engaging in acts of debauchery?

It's also interesting that they used the same slogan used by today's follower of Thelema - Do As Thou Wilt.

Found this interesting article on the Hellfire clubs from a masonic point of view. Predictably, the Freemasons are distancing themselves from the infamous clubs, and from the Duke of Wharton, who was Grand Master of English Freemasonry.

Originally posted by franspeakfree
have you researched the Rothschilds?

This is something I've been meaning to get into more in the next few months. I've already ordered Ferguson's The House of Rothschild. If you have any links or other books to suggest, I'd greatly appreciate it. (PS I've never said you misunderstood )

As I mentioned, I still believe that the Bavarian Illuminati itself was not wealthy. (I've read a fair amount of their own writings) It could have been a ruse by Weishaupt to milk more money from its membership as you pointed out above.

Granted, the Rothschilds were one (or some) of the members' bankers. Prince Karl collected degrees from a variety of secret societies, including the Freemasons. Is that proof that the Rothschilds were somehow financing the Masons as well? Did they finance the Asiatic Brethren? Nevertheless, it's an interesting link and certainly notable.

Your claim of the Illuminati being involved in black magic and satanism is not supported by their own writings. (most of which were published by the Bavarian government after a compromising letter was found on Lanz' person)

I definitively think that the Bavarian Illuminati of 1776 is a completely different animal than what we refer to today as the Illuminati.


[edit on 26/11/08 by ConspiracyNut23]

franspeakfree



I really think you have misread the responses on this. No one is saying that Rothschild were ever poor, but mearly not financing at a certain point.
Pleas re read reponses and all links. I appreciate your enthusiam, but your hung up on one certain factor which was only a quote i pulled of the internet about my family heritage. This thread was not an aim about the Illuminati and rothschild imparticular but a connection between me and them via our mysterious relative.



[edit on 27-11-2008 by hightower]

theindependentjournal
Many thanks this will be an avenue i'll be extremely interested in. I know very little about this Jesuit.

Can anyone please help on the caves diagram i posted earlier on. I'm sure as hell they mean something.

taken from wikipedia :

An alternative viewpoint was advanced by Daniel P Mannix in his book about The Hellfire Club.

This theory suggests that the caves had been deliberately created by Dashwood according to a sexual design.The design begins at the 'womb' of the Banqueting Hall, leading to rebirth through the female triangle, followed by baptism in the River Styx and the pleasures thereafter of the Inner Temple. This theory is not mentioned in National Trust literature and is allegedly refuted by the Dashwood family

[edit on 27-11-2008 by adamclement]

The Freemasons Lodge is a few miles down the road in the White Horse pub. Or at least it was, it changed hands last year, and haven't been down for a while.

I also live approximately the same distance from Waddesdon Manor, Rothschilds family home. Fascinating to look round.

Originally posted by MoonMine

Rothschild - Prince Karl and the House of Hesse represent the strongest connection yet between the Rothschild Dynasty and the Illuminati. The two families had such an intimate relationship that there's a strong possibility for the Rothschilds having at least contributed financially to the Bavarian Illuminati - if only in Karl's name.

Source

His Banker. Definitly a link there.

According to Ferguson, Rothschild's big break was being appointed to manage the investment portfolio of the Hesse-Kassel state. Because the Hesse-Kassel wealth was generated by hiring out it's military as mercenaries, mainly to Britain (again according to Ferguson), though as Britain and Prussia were at that time allies, same difference. Evidently, and I do not pretend to understand this so bear with me, the reason why it was such a lucrative business arrangement for Rothschild was because of the Bond market at the time and the massive instability across Europe which helped keep the Bonds prices fluctuating. The price of bonds is dependent on the issuing countries ability to pay;

'...only two things might cause them not to do so: war, which would increase their expenditures and decrease their tax revenues; and internal instability, ranging from a change in ministry to full blown revolution.'

'...It also explains why they carefully developed a network of salaried agents in other key financial markets, whose job it was not only to trade on their behalf but also to keep them supplies with the latest financial and political information.'

(p5 The House of Rothschild, Niall Ferguson)

I would be surprised as successful as they were at what they did, if they didn't have informers within the Illuminati to keep them abreast of any developments, not that there seem to have been any to have overly troubled the markets. The Rothschilds were renowned for their business discretion and obsessive familial secrecy...it doesn't seem much of a stretch of the imagination that they would be trusted by Illuminati, especially those of an aristocratic variety who were used to sharing information with 'servants'.

I would though be quite surprised if they had funded the Illuminati, even indirectly, I can't see a realistic return for one, and at this stage in the families career they don't seem to have had much ready cash for frivalous ventures.

The only way in which I could see them supporting the Illuminati is if they had reached some agreement over the emancipation of the Jews a cause that both Mayer and his sons committed themselves to, and therefore gave some sort of donation to 'the cause'. But given that most of their business at that time (before they became heavily invested in England) was with the Principalities, I can't see him supporting a movement which sought to despose their custom. Kind of like shooting yourself in the foot or biting the hand that feeds you.

reply to post by hightower


Ok sure I will go back and have another read, great thread, keep up the good work. Lets hope there is no connection between the illuminati and satanism.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
Does anyone have any information on Benjamin Franklin's involvement in the HellFire club? Was Franklin known for engaging in acts of debauchery?

I don't think that he was...I haven't come across anything to suggest he was anything other than an almost perfect moralist, prided himself on the fact (and seemingly no subsequent fall).

I doubt therefore that any connection that he had with any of the Hell Fire Clubs would be for the indulgence of his deeply hidden hedonistic tendencies. Though you really do never know!

No supporting evidence beyond rumour it seems either....

Franklin's exposure to the club is described as follows by Cecil B. Currey, in Road to Revolution, Benjamin Franklin in England, 1765-1775:

"... Franklin knew Le Despencer very well. He was fully aware of an enterprise which the Englishman had been conducting for some years more or less surreptitiously, known as the Hell Fire Club. Its activities were familiar to Franklin and he occasionally joined in them...

In his youth, Le Despencer had been a member of ... rakes' groups. In later years, ... he determined to form a secret society that would express his interest in architecture, literature, and religion. Only the cleverest and most humorous of his friends would be asked to join. ...

The perfect location for such a society was soon found. Only six miles from the baron's estate, on the bank of the Thames River near Marlow in Buckinhamshire, lay the ruins of Medmenham Abbey. It had been founded by Cistercian monks in 1145. The abbey was well located in a grove of trees which nearly concealed it from view. The nearest road was some distance away, but members would be able to approach it easily in private boats... and ... could return to their homes in complete privacy. ... Workmen were sent in and the abbey was rebuilt and the grounds landscaped ... to make them into a `garden of lust.'

Marble pillars were erected on which were carved pornographic inscriptions in bastard, or `macaroni' Latin. Small Grecian-styled temples were put up here and there. The groves were filled with statuary in indecent poses. ... Hollowed from a hill was the Cave of Trophonius. A fresco within it pictured sexually robust animals, a crowing cock, and a laughing nun...

The buildings were designed also to carry out the theme of sexuality. ... To one side of the main door sat a statue of Harpocrates, the god of silence... Opposite was ... Volupian Angerone, goddess of secret passion.

Rooms adjacent to the chapel were designed to heighten the sexual utility of the place. There was a Roman Room, its wall hung with paintings copied from ancient and indecent Roman frescoes. Also on the walls were paintings of famous English prostitutes... Small statues of Egyptian gods and goddesses sat in niches in the walls."

A number of Franklin's biographies mention the Hell Fire club:

"Franklin enjoyed the seasoned old sinner, who enjoyed Franklin, and they spent parts of three summers together at Wycombe. Le Despencer, once a blasphemer, had recently undertaken a deistic revision of the Prayer Book. Occupied with the Liturgy, he asked Franklin to help him `by taking the rest of the book, viz., the Catechism and the reading and the singing of the Psalms. These,' Franklin later remembered, `I abridged by retaining of the Catechism only the two questions: "What is your duty to God?" "What is your duty to your neighbour?" with answers.'" (Van Doren)

www.montaguemillennium.com...


Franklin doesn't come across as particularly judgemental though, and he may well have visted out of curiousity...although I am wondering if he may have been approached by them as a publisher, many of the members it seemed dabbled in erotica which was almost impossible to get published in England (unless you wished to end up in the dock).

To the OP;

You may find it fruitful to extend your search to the 'Monks of Medenham' or the 'St Francis Friars'. I don't think Dashwood's lot were officially known as a Hell Fire Club until after the fact.

Very interesting thread though, I am still reading up on it, but, I have found one or two tenuous links to the Bavarian Illuminati but also there seems to be a general anti-colonial air to some members which is intriguing.




[edit on 29-11-2008 by KilgoreTrout]