Real Contrail Science, why they persist and why they spread out and why they are not chemtrails

reply to post by thefreepatriot


Do you have any idea what you're doing then?

Answer the question........

What makes persistent contrails evidence of "chemtrails" and by extension, evidence of any specific program to deliver chemicals or substances to the general population.

Originally posted by MrPenny
reply to post by thefreepatriot

 

Do you have any idea what you're doing then?

Answer the question........

What makes persistent contrails evidence of "chemtrails" and by extension, evidence of any specific program to deliver chemicals or substances to the general population.

Looks like your the one that doesn't have an idea what your doing..I have never said persistant contrails are evidence of chemtrails..??? because some contrails can become persistant in certain circumstances the evidence I have pointed out is that after seeing a suspected chem trail(usually laid by aircraft not flying in a normal pattern) and collecing samples you do find a cocktail of nasties which are usually NOT FOUND. before this "contrail" showed up...

Originally posted by Zepherian
Well, your statement makes no sense. Just because you saw the contrails of a departing aircraft (which in itself is odd because they don't usually leave enduring contrails within visual range of the airport because they are low level, either arriving or departing) does not mean there cannot be chemtrails, that statement is illogical, as you're comparing apples to oranges.

It depends on the temperature and humidity level.
When you have worked there long enough you start to know the schedule for all the airlines, as you have to visually watch when your flights come in to shift personnel and marshal them in. Of course the order shifts some as planes often come in early/late, but you start to get a pattern to it when they are on time. You certainly don't forget that pattern when you are not at work, and as I said I lived in the approach/departure pattern. The contrails up where I used to live would get thick when it was colder out, early morning, and sometimes in the evening. I knew what flights were coming in, so it was easy enough to correlate them to the contrails. There were certainly no aircraft up there spraying those contrails as they would have been in the approach pattern. Here in Florida, its also a bit different then other locations because most of our flights make straigh-in approaches from the north, or come from the west to the north of the airport then turn south into a northern approach. They go longer distances straight in, rather then entering a pattern around the airport. Also we would get planes that came from the South who would have to fly the Downwind leg between the two major airports in this area, right up the bay, and they would be at a fairly high altitude when they made that pass.


If you don't mind my asking, what position did you hold?
To be honest if you did work for an airline, you are the first aviation professional who I have met that believes this stuff. I have met people who work in civil aviation who believe in Chemtrails, but none in commercial aviation.

reply to post by defcon5


I don't want to give much personal information, suffice to say I worked for the actual airport and not an airline, and had apron access. Btw, I'm not saying civilian flights have anything to do with chemtrails, at the very least I assume they are chartered flights with minor alterations to the airframe, if not a full blown tanker fleet, possibly with conversions of civilian airframes as advertised by evergreen aviation.

Everyone in the airline industry is very coy about talking about aviation stuff beyond operations, it's high stakes jobs were people mind their own business and try not to mess up. Very compartmentalized, very hierarquical, lots of secret stuff could happen with minimal comments being made imo.

Always remember than an absense of proof is not a proof of absense.

Originally posted by thefreepatriot
(usually laid by aircraft not flying in a normal pattern)

Now we're getting somewhere....show me the data that shows the aircraft to be flying in a "not normal pattern." Show me what is considered to be a "normal pattern" vs a "not normal pattern." Can you do that?

and collecing samples you do find a cocktail of nasties which are usually NOT FOUND. before this "contrail" showed up...

Now I'll need the control...the sample that shows the absence of some kind of "nasties", before the contrail showed up. Don't forget the tendency for upper atmospheric activity to spread anything over several hundred miles, making it very difficult to assign any causative "chemtrail" as to its source. And if it's a soil or water sample, I'll need corroborating evidence of the source; the alleged "chemtrail" that deposited the "nasty." Then, you'll need to show me the collected samples, with the "nasties", and show that the nasties came from a "chemtrail".

Remember, it has been suggested that there is no particular "targeting" of any specific area...which further suggests that the entire continental United States would need to be "sprayed" in order to reach the entire populace. Of course, that notion would be suspect if it were found that some areas varied in concentrations of any "nasties."

Now...change my mind. Show me the cause/effect of "chemtrails" and "nasties."

There is no ample evidence of 'nasties' as you put. Where are your samples? I can provide a plethora of samples from all around Denver that show that these 'nasties' do not exist. Can you do the opposite?

Another thing to keep in mind. The regulatory systems put in place, and the ongoing concerns for pesticides are due to specially, their tendency to end up where you didn't spray them, and the amount that gets into wildlife. It is found in fish and birds most notabaly (from insects that eat the poisoned plants). And up the food chain from there. It's noticable and obvious even in trace amounts. And guess what.. there is a lot less pesticide spraying than this supposed blanketing of chemicals over cities. And yet there is nothing. Wildlife preservation is a big part of cleanup efforts, and worries about runoff, and so on. There has never been a mystery chemical, let alone an abundance of aluminum nor borium for that matter.

You ignore the impact such a massive undertaking would have on the local enviroment. And there is no evidence of it. i.e. it's not happening.

reply to post by Zepherian



I don't know where you worked at, but it certainly was not like that where I worked. The Aviation Authority people used to keep to themselves, but those of us who worked the airport proper all knew each others business. The airport is like a small city unto itself, and people were cross trained (within their company) to shift from place to place. A PSA could end up working flight ops, a tugger could end up running mail, a ramp agent could end up working the bag well, etc. Flight Ops was a big hangout for ramp personnel, maintenance, flight crews, fuelers, and catering. There were always card games going on at one location or another. People used to date each other, and folks would go out to the bar, nightclubs, fishing, boating, or golfing together all the time. People from all over the airport used to eat together in the employee cafeteria, with the exception of the Post office folks who had their own cafeteria (though we would go eat over there as well). Any new piece of ramp equipment, that showed up on someones flight line, would be known about and checked out by people from other airlines ramp crews. Rumors flew around the place like the wind, there were no secrets at all. God help you if you ever did something stupid out there...

About the only people that we did not really spend time with were the security people (we would interact with them, but they were very busy), the people who run the shops/hotel (again limited contact other then as a patron), the airport fire department (they would stay in their station), customs (they would only ever be around when a customs flight came in), Aviation Authority people (stayed in their own area for the most part), and civil aviation hanger folks (we could go to their area, but we rarely had reason to).

If you missed out on that I actually feel sorry for you, because it can be a very fun place to work despite the stress and seriousness of the job. Maybe that all changed post 911, but that is how it was when I was there.

reply to post by defcon5


There was some of that, but here things were not as "nice". Apart from the coffee stand get together there wasn't that much coexistance, and the corporate structure here, much to the responsability of the people themselves, is more fascist, with people being compartmentalized and dehumanized.

I made freinds and had *some* good times, but overall the experience of working at the local international airport was a bit of a let down, part because of the little coexistence of the personnel working there (and there's a lot of them, the airport employs around 2000 people iirc) and part because of the fascist corporations that have been subcontracted to manage the place. Boredom mixed with artificially provoked stress is a very wierd mindset to find oneself in.

Our airport, Funchal International, seems to fall more in the NWO business model, which is unfortunate.

reply to post by MrPenny


Sure here is one.....

flightaware.com...

Unfortunately most don't track since they fly with transponders off or non existent.

reply to post by utmostbastard


That doesn't address the question at all...and you know it.

Again...what characteristics does a "not normal flight pattern" have?

Originally posted by doomsauce
On one of the websites linked in one of the recent chemtrail threads there was a picture (out of gajillions) that showed a halo around the sun. The claim was that it appeared after a chemtrail spraying.

I recall seeing a YouTube video not long ago showing a woman aghast at the sight of a rainbow being formed from her lawn sprinkler. She was livid, ranting about how this never happened when she was a child and that the government must be putting something in the air to kill or control us all. I can't really tell if it's a joke or not... especially after reading some of the threads on ATS. If it was, she was a good actor. I'll try to look up the video in a few moments.

How can a plane appear to have 2 separate trails one that I would call a contrail(dissipated or faded in under 30 seconds) and one that I would call a chemtrail(does not dissipate just spread) so close together and all the way along the entire sky?

Right!

Also two different planes sharing same direction and slightly same altitude:

Plane No1) No long contrail
Plane No2) Long contrail

Also the checkered patterned contrail areas in the sky.
Oh that one must have been pilots fooling around while wasting tons of fuel and working hours...

Oh no! We used to have checkered patterned skies back in 1944 don't you know?

I ques if some authority can spend all that money for those tons of fuel, all that sprayed chemical, all that ground service needed for air vehicles and all that working hours just so they can do their thing, I guess they can spare some change and have people roaming through the forum boards posting it ain't so.

But.. can this be for real?
Well...I am posting in a thread that appeared all of a sudden out of nowhere claiming chemtrails do not exist and we do know, at least I do that this is the time they resume spraying for the winter after they seem to stop in spring, at least in Europe!
Also this time they are spraying heavy I tell you, right at the same days many people seem to get sick with sore throats and colds.

But nobody has to listen to me! I'm just an idiot!

Chemtrails do not exist! Really they don't! Don't let ME fool you people!

I am a high ranking reptilian agent and we have been putting invisible bioactive compounds in middle distillate fuels for years. Diesel, Jet-A, JP-5, JP-8, and especially JP-7. They are everywhere. They are designed to befuddle the human brain and cause serious logic faults. Humans exposed to them make claims that are unsubstantiated and demand negative evidence. They argue in circles and can't seem to answer simple questions or hold a thought. We reptilians are immune to their effects.
We have been circling the human nests containing freepatriot, truthtellist, and kucinich. As you can see, our plan is working well. Fortunately, the effects last 40 human years so we may now move to high value targets.

Originally posted by Essan
You know Z, I never know whether to hug you or hit you, make you a Friend or Foe

But as I write the Fellowship of the Loyal Comrades of the Meteorological Agents of Doom (the true rulers of the World, as I'm sure you know) are monitoring this thread with great interest. So, obviously, I can say no more.

Well since the last few months have been taken over by the GFL and Gloom and Doomers its been boring here. Even Phage keeps trying in the Nibiru threads...

But hey all the back patting from the FLCMAD had to have someone take up the pall for the other team

Now I cannot prove chemtrails at this time... but the minute I do I will give you first look

I mean if we all agreed there would be little worth discussing here and I could go plant some grass and watch that grow... or try to figure out how to make it rain here

reply to post by pteridine


You realize that knowingly posting untrue information on ATS is a T&C violation, right?
I assume you are trying to be funny though.

Originally posted by MrPenny The claims seem to indicate hundreds, maybe thousands of aircraft are involved in this activity.

Well I don't claim hundreds The only day I observed it happening over Vegas there were five planes involved and they covered the sky in about 20 minutes of observation. They flew very fast and were higher that commercial traffic.

The sky was full of other planes leaving regular fast dissipating contrails, while these ones not only stayed, but filled the entire sky as the space between the trails filled in..

We could see a 'fall' like snow fall coming from the trail that actually showed iridescence. We took pics and they should be developed by tomorrow

The planes leaving these trails were much higher that the regular traffic and from our view point moved about 3-4 times faster...

Until I watched that I had no opinion on chemtrails... seeing is believing

Originally posted by populardisbelief
Also two different planes sharing same direction and slightly same altitude:

Plane No1) No long contrail
Plane No2) Long contrail

Here (on page 37) is a photo of two different aircraft flying side by side, one generating a contrail and the other not, simply due to newer engine design. In the 1990’s the airlines started retiring the workhorse 727 aircraft, which used older engines, for the newer 737, 757, 767, and airbus families.

Originally posted by populardisbelief
Well...I am posting in a thread that appeared all of a sudden out of nowhere claiming chemtrails do not exist and we do know, at least I do that this is the time they resume spraying for the winter after they seem to stop in spring, at least in Europe!

The reason why you see more contrail in the winter should be obvious.
Temperatures go down, and contrails form easier.

[edit on 11/18/2008 by defcon5]

Originally posted by zorgon
Until I watched that I had no opinion on chemtrails... seeing is believing

Exactly!

Why is it so hard for so many to fathom?

reply to post by defcon5


If we are to hold others to the levels of proof they demand for the contrails thread, I could just say that it would have to be proven untrue. If no one can prove it is untrue, then it must be true.

How do you know that there is no element of truth to it?

Originally posted by zorgon
They flew very fast and were higher that commercial traffic.

Very fast = military(possibly?)

Higher = different atmospheric regime (more likely to produce contrails)

Precipitant = ? (we shall see)



[edit on 18-11-2008 by Phage]