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PARA: What You Should Know About Lower Astrals

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posted on Feb, 24 2010 @ 12:45 PM
reply to post by antar

I've got much love for you too, antar

No worries. From my experience, we're all a bit deluded and definitely brainwashed. I've yet to meet a truly enlightened individual. What we think to know at one point in time in our life, can be seen in a different light years later.

We're all growing and experiencing this cosmos together. No need to look down on others who (IMO) have great powers of imagination, and the curiosity to follow it. I actually commend you on your abilities and willingness to share with others. Not only that, your empathy and respect for other people's perspectives is outstanding.

I have much to learn from individuals such as yourself.

Take care.

posted on Mar, 18 2010 @ 04:16 AM
reply to post by cbass

Anyone who believes we live in 11 different dimensions or whatever should also believe anything is possible because in theory it is possible. I believe it is possible for us to be attacked by other creatures that live in other dimensions that we cant see because we as humans can kill bacteria that cannot see us or even know we exist. something from a world above us could come squash us. If you smoked some salvia or have any tripping experience you would know first hand what the human mind is capable of. For all we know we could be living in a fantasy world matrix. Sure this could be a made up story but what if it was real. what if this story was someones actual reality even if highly unlikely. Sometimes the truth is so unbelievable no one believes it. I also know allot of the time people are scared of the truth

posted on May, 2 2010 @ 03:37 AM
Correlating recent reptilian eye videos to LOWER ASTRALS - ( this post is a near copy to one in the Creepy Eyes thread.) The MSNBC eye shift video has at least 100 other companions now circulating youtube-Metacafe-Video.emo and on down the list. ---- Visit my Yoube channel-playlist for a preview of these 100+ videos that are taken by persons in numerous languages from raw televsion. I also have this One poor example you are discussing on this forum-thread from the MSNBC website. There are more on the MSNBC website; but here are the ones I could collect onto my youtube channel
My Life and indeed my work beyond the daily needs for an income is all about preventing or helping these PEOPLE who get themselves involved in the elite groups of Bael.I HAVE SEEN this effect in persons who channel spirits of a low vibration. Look into the antics of the same people like HW BUSH and others who aspire not into Satanism or bland Luciferiansm that the masses think is evil. These are S.A.A.L.M. members of the Khazarist bloodlines and this blue-bloodline descended from Egyptian Royalty(the Ibiru) and they worship and adhere ONLY to Sumerian and Sabbatean ideologies centered around the return of thier celestial GOD Marduk(bael) and the Asmodeous Group.
The challenge is that these 'gods' of the blue-bloods are like astral entites and this foolish Iranian man has somehow willingly admitted such a low entity into his brain. If people willfully let the vampire in; then we can't do much.
It's sad in fact that there is a supernatural spin to what is really a very scientific process all spelled out quite horribly in the Necronomicon. There is a device described in this' fictitcious' rewrite of the Satanic Goetia that actually describes the box containing the mind and soul of 'A wizard of Old' who is brought to this planet and inserted into the worthy host body.
This is what I see..and it's spreading into Italian; Spanish,French,German and Asian countries as citizens post more and more alledged 'compression effects' and videos.
And finally as to the summary about myself..I am indeed well aware that we as humans have an equally real astral BODY. When we die everybody who expects to be taken somewhere or go into a light or 'whatever' meets these parasitic Annunaki/Draco/Greys. The witless human S.A.A.L.M. members have truly sold us to parasites who feed on fears and Soma(blood products+bodies)...and this has only happened because our entire culture is afraid of ghosts and uninformed as to the really sinister practices of the Elites who we strangely continue to allow to rule.
The important Truth about spirit possession is that there is temporary and permanent types of phenomena. Kids playing with Ouija boards get temporary possession problems. But these people who now have verticle-slit eyes are NO_LONGER HUMAN inside. They thought they were making some kind of DEAL with a Djinn but instead they die.
Our people feel creeped-out around them. But also the females with these eyes as seen on television are very alluring and desirable to our men. I say subjectively that the actual entities swimming around behind these top-eschalon families are Annunaki-Enki and blue-tinted Nephillim.
Consider that there are other species of people who trick our most gullible and weakest HuLu ( Hu=human Lu=slave in Sumerian) into playing demon conjuring and blood-games as well as lowering thier vibrations through canibalism and vampirism as per the Sacrament ritual. The are no uncorrupted Religions including my own. Sadly, instead what we have now accross the board and is an open perversion of truths and infiltration by this specific race of people who farm us, haunt our dreams; Then after death by tricks of false light our trusting souls are led away by to some astral construct on or in the moon/earth/pyramids where a machine FORCES souls into a light. This TRICK somehow makes trusting people forget & come-back in whatever body THEY want.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by shay_james]

[edit on 2-5-2010 by shay_james]

posted on May, 2 2010 @ 05:19 AM
reply to post by unityemissions

Hey unityemissions,

I'd give you big thumbs up for your realization about the astral being imagination. I read from your post that you've had OOBEs and experienced this what people call astral...

I've thought on similar lines although I've never experienced the astral except few times when I nearly had a lucid dream (been working on that). Even though I haven't had such experiences, I am quite convinced - although not 100% certain - that it is all about imagination, so it is not real in objective sense. By objective I mean that everyone could experience similar things while hanging out in "astral" - for example, meeting each other, communicating there and yet all the participants verifying similar experience.

But I do not deny that astral experiences are real. They are, in subjective sense. If you experience it, then it 100% real for you, but not necessarily to others. The phenomena itself may be also totally real, in the sense that anyone should be able to experience it, providing they are capable of practising active imagination.

But the events that happen in astral are merely products of one's own mind, and some events that can be verified to be similar between various people may stem from collective subconsciousness, being archetypical figures and events.

I've studied this phenomena to great extent - both online and from literature - and even tried to reproduce it in my own field of experiment, but I've failed so far (except the few times when I've almost been capable of having a lucid dream). To my great shame, I wake up every time when I am starting to have consciousness in dreams. The subconsciousness is a wonderful thing to explore and it can certainly tell something about yourself. I guess knowing contents of one's (sub)consciousness is part of the almost outworn proverb know thyself.

I hold no fixed opinions about astral is. I just want to explore the phenomena so many people seem to be talking about. It is just that my exploration and inquiry about it had led me thinkin in lines that it might be absolutely psychological, not physical and hence objectively observable, phenomena.

I have a question for those who can conscioulsy enter the "astral": While being there, can you give a stick to your friend , and your friend would then confirm in this dimension of receiving that stick from you in astral?


posted on May, 12 2010 @ 02:37 PM

Originally posted by v01i0
I'd give you big thumbs up for your realization about the astral being imagination.

I believe the word you are really looking for is "imaginal." Essentially, it is a term coined to mean a level of reality where both autonomous energies (we might call this archetypes, but I do not mean for this to be limited to 'traditional' things, but all-energy-which-exists) and imagination interact, for a third result. You do not have that world without both of those inputs, and there is a practice and skill development in learning to walk that line without falling more into one realm than another (to use familiar words/model).

Archetype meditations, also called Jungian or Shamanic explorations, conscious dreaming, active imagination, and other terms, are a prime example of this. They are definitely "subjective experiences" but they can have radical effects in this-reality (or one's perception that is labeled 'this reality', as the more accurate description might be).


[edit on 12-5-2010 by RedCairo]

posted on May, 18 2010 @ 08:10 PM
I do not understand what 'creepy eyes" thread has to do with this one?

Did you mean this thread?

If so the only relation would be that yes there are things which are not comfortable to stumble upon or even know about for most people.

However we have a much more open minded community here and members are most comfortable and free to ask genuine questions and to discover truths you will find no where else.

posted on May, 18 2010 @ 08:44 PM
your story is so convoluted and boring i couldnt focus for the whole thing. Are you saying you've seen lower astral entities occupying the physical world? or are you describing an astral projection. Can someone sum up this story in 1 or 2 sentences so I can get the facts?

posted on Jun, 14 2010 @ 02:32 PM
reply to post by podizzle

I stumbled upon a portal where the lower astrals come and go. During my time at the location, it became clear that many people and events in this world are not as they seem but sometimes staged events and happenings.

Since that time, there have been many new discoveries made about such places and even about the ruling elite who cover up these locations to further their ancient most agendas, none look good for the human race nor our planet as a whole.

posted on Aug, 22 2010 @ 07:33 PM
post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions

posted on Aug, 22 2010 @ 07:57 PM
I had started to read this thread but the comments of one poster were so annoying that I didn't want to go any further. I didn't even realize that it's such an old thread. It makes me wonder if this commentator is of the lower astrals, since they felt it necessary to pick apart details of antar's description of their experience.

Regardless, I have been there slightly (with a bit of chemical help) and it's true that reality is not what it seems. I feel a strong desire to know of what my mind is truly capable of.

posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 02:05 PM
reply to post by The Sword

Sorry I have not checked back on this thread with all of the BP stuff I was bringing to light. What you can do is to simply go to the Op (opening post) and then at the bottom of that hit the 'thread' button, this will allow you to read only my commentary first and then go back to see what others had to say.

Granted it is an older thread however the information is timeless. I have even mentioned somewhere here that the lower astrals do not like water and so for me one of the signs to watch for in their empowerment is the destruction of our most precious resource, our rivers, lakes and oceans.

There are many angles which you can take on this subject, some will send you down a darkened rabbit hole, while others will possibly give you a heads up for future events that may affect you personally.

For me, this represents both the seen and the unseen forces in the world as we know it, and the unseen forces are at present guiding the ship of fools who choose to not see reality as it is in it's entirety due to fear of the unknown.

This fear of the unknown has been a luxury of our Grandparents day and age and now the time of change is upon all of us alive today. We are at a precipice, a point of no return for the fate of our world, our beingness, our very survival as a whole.

If the lower astrals have their way, then it is a course of Global suicide.

Although this thread and it's original content is a most uncomfortable read, it does give some insight into the lower realms which are controlling our lives globally today.

From my experience it is not written in stone that it should go one way or the other and when we begin to open our minds, hearts and consciousness to not only what we have been taught, shown and absorbed since birth, then there is still a chance for our survival.

We are multidimensional beings operating from an abundance of realities, of consciousness flows. Right now there is a deliberate block in that flow which seeks to keep humanity bound by the chains of the past, of the backwater of what has continually failed in the past and is not allowing the present to reach it's fullness.

I cannot tell you that our future is a waterfall of bliss, but 'this' present moment has every opportunity to be just that. Understand, we are in the crosshairs of our species taking the next leap in the evolutionary pattern of our destiny our fullest potential.

The lower astrals are not happy about that. To them it represents a time of enlightenment, of illumination beyond their comprehension. This is not their comfort zone, their purpose or desire.

It would be like taking a fresh, young, innocent and purely loving person and setting them on an island filled with the most despicable, mentally deranged and sadistic people. That one innocent and loving person could by all rights sway the mentally ill to come over to their side, to see life as a gentle hug.

But you know as well as I that it in all probability it would not go that way. And the dangers we face now are far more grave than that example. There is every single possibility we will fail, and only a slight chance we will succeed and pass through to the next level.

Let me say this also, you may wonder how the lower astrals have come into such power over the humans, animals and eco balance today, well all I can share is that when you seek to raise your vibrational frequency, to join this fight, you don't just jump up through the limits of this dimension into the next, there has to be a bridge.

Your higher consciousness must have a bridge, you create that bridge, build it, brick by brick. Awareness and an openness to your own individuality, through what ever works for you whether it is meditation or prayer, or any other means, what worked for Mohammad or Jesus or Buddha, Krishna, or the countless unknowns who have mastered their own flowering, is not going to work for you. they found their way just as you will too one day, one life. It is certain.

But that's not necessarily what we are discussing here, what we are talking about is how to bridge that gap between you and your higher self, consciousness, and in the same how the lower aspects also have discovered the bridge, and that is what has and is happening.

Your higher self must in essence come and collect you, you cannot jump up and collect it. You can build the bridge, you can press your way up, but you like a young child learning to walk, also learns to reach his hands up for the parent to help.

People like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, discovered this, they reached down and became one with their lowers. Now those powers have been in control much much longer than those named above, for as long as man has been evolving really, but they learned the art. No devil, no demons to aid them, well, no deals, just awareness which moved to the lower astral realms rather than the higher, and vice versa. They too eventually move to the higher you know...

I have heard that it is like when the water flows, it always flows to the lower, never the opposite. Create the bridge through whatever means possible, even nothing done with total awareness will be enough, even one small candle in the room is sufficient to cast away the darkness of a million years.

Call yourself whatever you choose, light-worker, warrior of the light, whatever you wish, and then fill that vessel within your chest with breath and light and join the real fight.

Thanks for your reply, I do appreciate the support, after all I am only human too!

posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 03:21 PM
Body water
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In medicine, body water is all of the water content of the human body. A significant fraction of the human body is water.

Guyton's Textbook of Medical Physiology states that "the total amount of water in a man of average weight (70 kilograms) is approximately 40 liters, averaging 57 percent of his total body weight. In a newborn infant, this may be as high as 75 percent of the body weight, but it progressively decreases from birth to old age, most of the decrease occurring during the first 10 years of life. Also, obesity decreases the percentage of water in the body, sometimes to as low as 45 percent".[1][2] These figures are statistical averages, so are illustrative, and like all biostatistics, will vary with things like type of population, age and number of people sampled, and methodology. So there is not, and cannot be, a figure that is exactly the same for all people, for this or any other physiological measure. For example, Jackson's (1985) Anatomy & Physiology for Nurses gives a figure of 60% for the proportion of body-weight attributable to water, which approximates Guyton's 57%.[3]

Regarding specific tissues: Lean muscle tissue contains about 75% water by weight. Blood contains almost 70% water, body fat contains 10% water and bone has 22% water. Skin also contains much water. The human body is about 60% water in adult males and 55% in adult females.

In diseased states where body water is affected, the compartment or compartments that have changed can give clues to the nature of the problem. Body water is regulated by hormones, including anti-diuretic hormone (ADH), aldosterone and atrial natriuretic peptide.

There are many methods to determine body water. One way to get a simple estimate is by calculation.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This article is about general aspects of water. For a detailed discussion of its properties, see Properties of water. For other uses, see Water (disambiguation).

Water in three states: liquid, solid (ice), and (invisible) water vapor in the air. Clouds are accumulations of water droplets, condensed from vapor-saturated air.Water is a chemical substance with the chemical formula H2O. Its molecule contains one oxygen and two hydrogen atoms connected by covalent bonds. Water is a liquid at ambient conditions, but it often co-exists on Earth with its solid state, ice, and gaseous state, water vapor or steam.

Water covers 70.9% of the Earth's surface,[1] and is vital for all known forms of life.[2] On Earth, it is found mostly in oceans and other large water bodies, with 1.6% of water below ground in aquifers and 0.001% in the air as vapor, clouds (formed of solid and liquid water particles suspended in air), and precipitation.[3] Oceans hold 97% of surface water, glaciers and polar ice caps 2.4%, and other land surface water such as rivers, lakes and ponds 0.6%. A very small amount of the Earth's water is contained within biological bodies and manufactured products.

Water on Earth moves continually through a cycle of evaporation or transpiration (evapotranspiration), precipitation, and runoff, usually reaching the sea. Over land, evaporation and transpiration contribute to the precipitation over land.

Clean drinking water is essential to human and other lifeforms. Access to safe drinking water has improved steadily and substantially over the last decades in almost every part of the world.[4][5] There is a clear correlation between access to safe water and GDP per capita.[6] However, some observers have estimated that by 2025 more than half of the world population will be facing water-based vulnerability.[7] A recent report (November 2009) suggests that by 2030, in some developing regions of the world, water demand will exceed supply by 50%.[8] Water plays an important role in the world economy, as it functions as a solvent for a wide variety of chemical substances and facilitates industrial cooling and transportation. Approximately 70% of freshwater is consumed by agriculture.[9]

See the corrilation?

If you watch what threads interest me most and not all are about water, you will see where I am going in my vision of where the energy needs to be directed in our light work. It is not so much about the portals themselves, there are far too many and have been opened throughout time as we know it in this dimension, well unless that is your specific target...

Water on earth, water in the bodies of all living organisms are at high risk from contamination and utter anhilation by the lower astrals and their agenda.

Vaccines pollute the body of man, contamination of feed and agricultural practices by companies like Monsanto and the rest trying to contaminate the eco system and all living species who eat within the system, pollution of our very dome, the air we breath and the air itself as water vapor. They give us a fantastic ride, and many distractions, it is a Disneyland adventure for sure and just because someone works for one of the agencies and companies does not mean they are the lowers, no, it is much harder than that to discover who is a budding soul and who is working against the budding soul.

There are the awakened ones to be certain, they are here as well, and the lowers would have us interested in the Monsantos rather than the Buddhas (yes Christ is a Buddha) and that is a confusion, but when you attempt to help from a higher level all that is irrevelant.

What matters is that you stand back and see things as they are and not how you are conditioned geopolitically, geographically, religiously to accept things. Awareness and trust, not fear and distraction.

edit on 10-9-2010 by antar because: Need to add a bit more

posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 03:41 PM
The lower astrals are horrific. And the stuff below the lower astrals even more so. Ive taken the elevator down. Ive seen. Spiritual Health matters. Good work antar

posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 04:04 PM
reply to post by antar

I have heard from friends that were in Vietnam that entire villages and obscure buildings could only be seen at certain times of day.

Hello, friend. First time I have talked to you, but your post struck a certain chord within me. I too had friends who were in the 'Nam, and I heard some strange stories come out of there too. I have heard of the phenomena you speak of.

I sense that you are slipping into another dimension of time and space here. A place that can be easily manipulated, as it is electronically-magnetically created for the most part. The crates represent something that you will find. I have no idea where, when, or how. The crates, if that is actaully what it is you are to find, will be partially hidden, and will only be visible for a short time, so a snap decision may have to be made here.

One thing to note was the smell attached to the area, it was the smell of rotten and decaying animals and urine. Also the entire place was surrounded by red roses, from the road east the only entrance , all you could see were huge bushes of over grown roses.

I know of this place too, it is part of a vast underground place where creatures live along with humans, and this is where the mainframe computer system that runs our world is located. The roses are to combat the smell. Here on the surface roses were used to cover the smell of death long before modern mortuary techniques.

You are right about the DNA and the Harvest, the harvest is for a gathering of DNA. Only is the 3rd. dimension can human emotions be felt, and when humans are angry, afraid. sexually excited, or at the moment of death a great deal of energy is released, and to the Reptilians this is a feast made for a King. I know a lot of people discount these beings, but I can assure you they exist. They are running experiments with our DNA, and our Spirit is all they are interested in. They call our bodies "containers."

Be careful as you walk these paths, friend. Love and Light be with you.

posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 04:39 PM
GREAT thread Antar!!

You speak eloquently of everything that's intuitively floating around in my head at all minutes of the day! Glad to see such a thread for like minded people to visit and realize that they are not alone!

posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 04:46 PM
You mentioned the phrase "gate keeper". I am interested in this.

I had a abduction/lucid dream/visitation experience where a very tall grey was in my room. All i can remember is that he said he would be back in a 'long time' - he said I was important as I was a gate keeper.

He touched the inside of my left elbow and caused me pain.

I woke up next morning with a very painful bruise right on that spot.

That's why I am interested in your phrase "gate keeper".

posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 12:14 PM

The lower astrals are horrific. And the stuff below the lower astrals even more so. Ive taken the elevator down. Ive seen. Spiritual Health matters. Good work antar.

I would love to hear more about your experience Sky, have you written publicly or here on the forum? Sheeze I thought that the semi evolved humanoid beings were as low as it goes... BUT, it does mean we, I am more advanced than I had given us credit for.

Also if and I do trust, the levels lower are also going to be reaching for higher dimensions, then that explains how the lowers I speak of became so powerful. Explains alot really.

"Spiritual Health matters" is a profound statement and one that they expend all energy keeping us from. It is like taking the day and walking through a septic system or choosing to take a walk through the botanical gardens. The choice every moment is ours to make, but the mind has ways of making excuses as to why we accept the lot we are given.

autowrench Your post actually scared me. Brought deep seated feelings to the surface I thought I had under control. The crates, were filled with dismembered body parts all living, or animated. I say living because the ones that could speak asked for help, help I could not give. I have decided not to go into detail about the who's that were captures or seen, because I feel too strongly for their families to do so. best to allow the past to remain there for their sakes.

Remember the war of the Roses? I don't know, just thinking. The families who made the deals long ago still rule you know, not saying any one in particular, but a good reason why they have always even to their detriment married themselves.

We are in many ways containers... The heart chakra is very important.

Ouroboros 2012 I to tell you the truth I try to do what I can for my own Enlightenment and in doing so figure it helps with all the challenges mentioned here.

stellify I personally try not to judge anything especially in the Alien/ET realms... that said, I will share with you from personal ET experience that I was once told or asked as I was under a procedure, if when they placed something in me I was feeling any pain, I told him that although I could feel it it was as if it was not my pain. For me, it is just another step in realizing that we are not the body, but much much more.

Thanks for all your replies, and remember this thread is not intended to create more fear but awareness. I know that as humans we are all vulnerable to unknowns, so once a subject is breeched by the light and you know what may or may not be part of our overall reality, you can then let it go and just focus on what helps you to reach your fullest potential and once that happens , there is nothing that can touch you.

posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 04:11 PM

Respectfully, `i was really wondering about your understanding of the phrase 'gate keeper'


posted on Sep, 12 2010 @ 05:54 PM
reply to post by stellify

Not for everyone, just as there are artists, poets and writers, so are there Scientists and plumbers, lol.

From where i sit, a gatekeeper can and does work for at least two sides of this issue. (*dead silence on phone just now, lol.*) Some will work to keep the gates closed until every soul has left this plain of existence safely into the next dimension.

There are others who station themselves either consciously or unconsciously near these 'portals' to allow a free flow of negative energy surges coming in.

There may well be others who are a neutral energy who are witnesses to the events yet not attached in any way directly.

For the first two examples these people see things from a different perspective than the average person, they know that there are the unseen forces which channel energy to places or even people.

This could be why in ancient traditions the spirit keepers or the Shamans were highly respected members of society, and if they deemed a certain area as 'sacred' it was simply accepted and those places avoided.

In today's society and as cities encroach on what was once sacred and hallowed ground, the mingling of these portals into everyday life has merged to the point where it is common place. To understand that it is an opening point or portal, takes more than the mind, it takes a warrior spirit, Often the energy found at a negative portal you will also find abuse and neglect and perversions, such as a slaughter house, or even prisons.

If you have ever ventured into an abandoned slaughter house or a place such as Auschwitz, it is entirely possible that you would pick up residual energies, in these places the energy is at its maximum long after they have been left discarded by human use.

It is unfortunate that the people who work in such places themselves often fall prey to the lower astral entities becoming nothing of the vessel they were before or in some cases after. Like a dream they can awaken one day and find they have no excuse for their actions and it is as if it happened in a distant past to someone else not them.

Lost souls or spirit entities can get trapped in these areas and are as vulnerable as a living soul when it occurs. Generally there are safe guards in place to keep this from happening but it does still happen. For those who die near these portals, they generally go on, but it also happens at times they become trapped. They themselves cannot help in any way to either keep open or close these portals.

The lower astrals then use their life force energy, their energy circle, and it is most sad when it happens to children. If you have ever listened to EVP you follow what I am saying.

So to answer your question, a gatekeeper can either be one who is available to ensure that the negative energies flow unhindered or, that they work towards keeping closed potential openings and help through their own personal ways, to close existing openings.

Again there is a third kind, one example would be a Tibetan Monk, Llama who sits for years alone meditating in a cave only known by his /her predecessors. Not to create a closing or to prevent an opening, just 'being' and working on his/her neutral energy in the process.

Another would be in the deepest forests untouched by man, working with the energy not humans affected by the energies.

posted on Sep, 19 2010 @ 01:04 PM

Originally posted by cbass
reply to post by LordBucket

It is a CRIME when stories like this go un-opposed and as a result someone buys into it, hook line and sinker.

Crime? Sounding authoritarian like here. I'd like to see the legal statute for this policy enforcement...

No offense intended here, just stating the obvious. You've SUFFICIENTLY put your view of resistance across. Can we not view a thread without emotional attachment and constant desire to express egoic reflection at material that goes against our own belief systems?

Or unfortunately forfeiting the opportunity to see you at your best... I will have to embrace ignorance, and click that warm fuzzy lil' ignore user icon.

Thanks for the very interesting post OP. Would be nice if the subject matter were all at the beginning of the thread though.

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