Either there is no god and no paranormal... or there are billions of good liars and dreamers

Originally posted by tgambill
It seems that we are dealing with philosophy majors and spin experts that reign with the New Age Movement. They will bring great deception even for the lukewarm Christians, like Joel Osteen who is a good example of how to distort the truth.

More accusations. Spin experts? You said before that it was "New Age" when someone said "You judge yourself". But is this not what we read in Luke 6?

37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

You will be judged based on how you judge others. Therefore, you are in fact judging yourself. If you do not judge others, then you will not be judged.

He then goes on to talk the familiar parable about hypocrits and the motes in their eyes. Talking about how the hypocrite judges the other, while not applying it to himself. As the hypocrite judges, he is judged the same. Thus you judge yourself, and you decide what you are judged on.

Don't want to be judged, then don't judge others.

I'm not judging you, I'm pointing out the fact that you are lying or being deceptive about the word of God. Judging is mentioned when one judges your character or your heart, as one cannot know what's inside a persons relative to their obeying Gods will or their character. I am pointing out however that you are spouting off false doctrine and basically lying or you are severely misguided. Deal with it.


"You will be judged based on how you judge others. Therefore, you are in fact judging yourself. If you do not judge others, then you will not be judged."

******Doesn't apply here when you are being deceptive about Gods Holy Word from the Bible.

"He then goes on to talk the familiar parable about hypocrits and the motes in their eyes. Talking about how the hypocrite judges the other, while not applying it to himself. As the hypocrite judges, he is judged the same. Thus you judge yourself, and you decide what you are judged on."

******Oh stop with the spins and misapplications of truth.

"Don't want to be judged, then don't judge others. "

*****Agreed and this isn't judging when you expose deception of Gods Holy Word. Try again Hotshot........you are miles offbase. You just grab verses at random and then spin them anyway you want but no matter which way you spin, you will be wrong when you depart from truth. you are light years from truth.

They are going to know he exists soon......

Quote:

If separated from the larger context of this book, this chapter could make God appear to be very cruel and unfairly harsh – so please read subsequent chapters as soon as possible! The devil delights in distorting the character of God whenever possible. The devil wants people to see God as a vengeful tyrant or a divine Santa Claus that can do no harm. Of course, both extremes are false. The same God who destroyed the world in Noah’s day and sent fiery brimstone upon Sodom and Gomorrah, also sent His Son to die on the cross for our sins. (John 3:16) In short, God reveals His love for the human race in a well-documented balance between justice and mercy. Bible history proves that God is longsuffering. He extends mercy to sinners day after day, year after year – until the day comes when extended mercy no longer has any redeeming effect. Then, God justifiably responds in wrath to deal with defiant rebellion. I offer this introductory statement because the contents of this chapter may seem overwhelming the first time you read it, but please press on and read Chapter 2 as soon as possible.

How the Tribulation Begins

The Great Tribulation will begin suddenly. It will begin with a global earthquake that effectively disrupts the activities of the whole world. (Revelation 8:5) God has a few things to say to the human race, and He intends to arrest the attention of the world with a massive earthquake that literally stops everything and everyone in their tracks. The sudden cessation of life as we know it will force everyone to stop and wonder what is going on. This coming earthquake is particularly interesting because geologists theorized a "global earthquake" was physically impossible until the early 1990’s. Now, physical evidence is proving that Earth’s tectonic plates go much deeper into the core of Earth than previously thought, and this information has caused geoscientists to change their thinking. The book of Revelation predicts there will be a total of four global earthquakes. (Revelation 8:5; 11:13; 11:19; 16:18) These earthquakes will increasingly rip up the surface of the world, and the infrastructures of travel, communication and manufacturing will collapse during the Great Tribulation. These earthquakes have no equal in recorded history. Each earthquake will have greater strength than the one before it. The final earthquake will be so violent that it will literally move all of the mountains and islands from their places. (Revelation 16:20; 6:14)
www.wake-up.com...


www.wake-up.com...

reply to post by badmedia


About those levels of understanding that can be received from each verse of the bible:

[Pshat] - literal, simple
[Remez] - parable, allegory
[Derasha] - seek, search
[Sod] - inner, mystical

While each level may overlap a little within each person, it can be seen within this very thread (and many others no doubt) that the purveyors of damnation are in the literal, simple category.

Those who are live and let live are in the parable, allegory category and that those who are questioning are those in the seek, search category.

And, those who are in the inner, mystical category are misunderstood, by the majority in the other levels. The understandings in this category are not secrets necessarily, but they are secret in the sense that those with the lower level understandings either will not or can not accept those inner, mystical understandings. Those who are seeking are conflicted on what to accept... but, they will find as is promised if they don't give up.

I find it amusing at times that eventually those in the simple, literal stage will find themselves later to be the criticized ones.

Your reverse tactics won't work. To judge is to judge your heart and character and whether you are going based on your sins. I'm telling you based on what the Bible says as to whether you are adhering to the truth of the Bible. If you claim to use Biblical scripture then use it right and now in a deceptive manner. Not going to happen.

Originally posted by tgambill
I'm not judging you, I'm pointing out the fact that you are lying or being deceptive about the word of God. Judging is mentioned when one judges your character or your heart, as one cannot know what's inside a persons relative to their obeying Gods will or their character. I am pointing out however that you are spouting off false doctrine and basically lying or you are severely misguided. Deal with it.

You have repeatedly accused me of things. Instead of taking the points up for debate, and discussing them, you dismiss them as double talk, or that it doesn't apply here, or to "stop the nonsense", call me names, and then post some propaganda you got off a website.

I never said you judged me, I said you made accusations towards me. I only posted the judging part because people actually do judge themselves, as they determine what they are judged on.

reply to post by tgambill


Be afraid of revelations? Do you even know what revelations means? It means the truth will be revealed. Over a period of those years, the truth will be revealed.

There is more certainly not a reason to fear the truth being revealed unless you have lived and are built up based on a lie. In which case, your entire reality will be washed away before you've very eyes.

Tell people to be afraid because revelations is going to happen? Absurd.

1In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

2For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.

3Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

4And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

5But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

6Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?

7But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

8Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

9But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.

10And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

11And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:

12For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

So, what is a pharisee that gave Jesus such a hard time, and who he was at odds with? They were the people who had used the mosaic law in the wrong ways, of which Jesus came to fulfill and give understanding too.

www.answers.com...

1. Pharisee A member of an ancient Jewish sect that emphasized strict interpretation and observance of the Mosaic law in both its oral and written form.
2. A hypocritically self-righteous person.

Todays mainstream christians, how do they compare to the pharisee?

They believe in the strict interpretation and observance of the bible, in both it's oral and written form.

The president of the US claims to be a christian, thus these are the people of power for our time. You can't get elected unless you believe in the strict interpretation of the bible. GWB - born again Christian.

These are the same people who have carried out wars in the name of Jesus, instituted slavery and done things in the name of Jesus that gets man to break the 10 commandments, and work in sin.

Why did Jesus have such a hard time with the people and their strict literal interpretation? Because they had no real understanding, and because they had no understanding they were hypocrites. If they had understanding, they wouldn't have been at odds with Jesus.

Those who have this strict reading of the bible would reject Jesus to his face, call him a new ager and tell him he was spreading lies. Probably even want to kill him. Just as the pharisees did.

"You have repeatedly accused me of things. Instead of taking the points up for debate, and discussing them, you dismiss them as double talk,"

******I used the term double talk to be nice. ) there are other words for them. I don't use those words any more. There is not much time left as the signs of the beginning of this new era are increasing day by day once one knows the signs, the revelation, and the coming of the Lord. No man knows the day or the hour, not even Jesus, but only God. Once this merry go round starts there won't be any more discussion on the internet.

"or that it doesn't apply here, or to "stop the nonsense", call me names, and then post some propaganda you got off a website."

*****) nice try for provocation. Sorry, not biting on this one as its typical in false claims or exaggerated. etc..... call you names??? lol

"I never said you judged me, I said you made accusations towards me."

*****You really believe this? Judge not lest ye be....blah blah blah....come to mind.

"I only posted the judging part because people actually do judge themselves, as they determine what they are judged on."

****Nice try again but no banana........

"Be afraid of revelations? Do you even know what revelations means? It means the truth will be revealed. Over a period of those years, the truth will be revealed. There is more certainly not a reason to fear the truth being revealed unless you have lived and are built up based on a lie. In which case, your entire reality will be washed away before you've very eyes."

******Revelations is not about truth its about the future events that will being on Jesus and the Tribulations. Man, you are so off base its not even worth discussing. Your reality will become your worse nightmare if you don't repent and take Jesus as your personal savior.


"Tell people to be afraid because revelations is going to happen? Absurd."

*****Not to be afraid, but to come to God time and accepting Jesus as savior is the only way.......

reply to post by badmedia


There's a story in the new testament wherein a couple were walking along the road discussing between themselves what had happened regarding Jesus' crucifixion.

And they were talking with each other about all these things which had taken place. While they were talking and discussing, Jesus Himself approached and began traveling with them. Luke 24:14-15

You have repeatedly accused me of things. Instead of taking the points up for debate, and discussing them, you dismiss them as double talk, or that it doesn't apply here, or to "stop the nonsense", call me names, and then post some propaganda you got off a website.

It is unfortunate that discussion isn't had because in discussing and reasoning these things, Jesus Himself draws near.

I would think that people would rather have Jesus draw near than for Him to be pushed away due to the mudslinging.

But, I guess, when "holding the hill" (a person's own opinion) is more important than carrying one's own cross as Jesus instructed, mudslinging is what is had.

reply to post by tgambill

Not going to get into a nonsensical "yes you did, no I didn't" argument in the first post. What you've said is there for anyone who's been reading.

But easy enough to find out what the word revelation means. The events that happen in revelations are done and allowed to show people the truth. As the evil becomes more and more apparent, more and more people will see the truth.

As is said in Genesis, we are here to learn both good and evil. So that we have knowledge on the subject. You can always be good, you can always be evil, but unless you have experienced both can you understand them. Just as you can always be hot, or always be cold, but you could never understand them unless you have experienced both. Once you have experienced both and see the truth about them, then it becomes a matter of which you choose to embrace. Thus why to sin against the holy spirit is to know the truth, and then purposely manipulate it into a lie for your own purpose, because at that point you are making the choice.


www.answers.com...

Revelation
n.
1.
1. The act of revealing or disclosing.
2. Something revealed, especially a dramatic disclosure of something not previously known or realized.
2. Theology. A manifestation of divine will or truth.
3. Revelation (Abbr. Rev. or Rv.) Bible. A book of the Bible.

[edit on 22-11-2008 by badmedia]

The preachers, Pastors, Ministers, Popes, and many others have fallen away and this includes Obama, Bush, Osteen, Billy Graham, Hagee, Copeland, Braizer, Paisley, TD Jakes, as I can't judge by no stretch of the imagination, I can say that they are not telling the truth if they claim to be Christians and some born again they are not speaking this doctine.

I would think that an proclaimed atheist would say that there is no God nor is their a Satan. Okay....but someone claiming to be an atheist and claiming a God also is not okay. a born again Chrisitian if one claims to be will also reflect that belief...right?

Bush claims to be born again or did....?????

New age beliefs...........
www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by L.I.B.
reply to post by badmedia

 

There's a story in the new testament wherein a couple were walking along the road discussing between themselves what had happened regarding Jesus' crucifixion.

And they were talking with each other about all these things which had taken place. While they were talking and discussing, Jesus Himself approached and began traveling with them. Luke 24:14-15

Good story, in the end, he gives them understanding of the scriptures, not just the literal scriptures themselves.

Those who understand the scriptures are those who will not be fooled. If everything is only ever seen and remembered in it's literal words, then it sets up god as external, which allows an external figure to come in and claim to be it.

Jesus tells them - be not afraid of those who can merely kill the body, but when you look at how Christians without understanding act, they do live in fear of it. They are in such deep fear, they will do things which go against the commandments and kill.

It is unfortunate that discussion isn't had because in discussing and reasoning these things, Jesus Himself draws near.

I would think that people would rather have Jesus draw near than for Him to be pushed away due to the mudslinging.

But, I guess, when "holding the hill" (a person's own opinion) is more important than carrying one's own cross as Jesus instructed, mudslinging is what is had.

Discussion and reasoning brings truth and understanding. As Jesus is truth, when you have found and understand truth, then Jesus is that much closer to you. I can understand that.

I'm probably pretty bad when it comes to my own opinion. If I thought I was wrong, I would change my opinion(and have). I don't think having an opinion in itself is bad, but failure to look past that opinion in light of evidence suggesting otherwise is. An error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to fix it kind of thing.

“But easy enough to find out what the word revelation means. The events that happen in revelations are done and allowed to show people the truth. As the evil becomes more and more apparent, more and more people will see the truth.”

****No where in the history of mankind can you even come close to justifying that the events in the Revelations has happened. NONE. This is why Its useless to debate with pagans and those that do not search for truth but seek to distort the truth.

“As is said in Genesis, we are here to learn both good and evil. So that we have knowledge on the subject. You can always be good, you can always be evil, but unless you have experienced both can you understand them.”

*****So, you are a Satanist or Luciferian whatever you call yourselves. Your true colors have shown clearly. They are black.
“Just as you can always be hot, or always be cold, but you could never understand them unless you have experienced both. Once you have experienced both and see the truth about them, then it becomes a matter of which you choose to embrace. Thus why to sin against the holy spirit is to know the truth, and then purposely manipulate it into a lie for your own purpose, because at that point you are making the choice.”

God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden to give Adam and Eve a choice – to obey Him or disobey Him. Adam and Eve were free to do anything they wanted, except eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This is why it’s a waste of time for me to post here because you folks don’t seek knowledge you seek to destroy and to mislead those that seek the truth.

Not to paraphrase the Bible, but a quote: Genesis 2:16-17, “And the LORD God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.’”

As I have said someone before, Adam and Eve would have been created like robots if they had not been given a choice. If they were not given a choice their action would not be fear of the lord, [Fear meaning respect, so cool your jets on this technique you use] by simply doing what they were programmed to do. God created Adam and Eve to be “free” beings, able to make decisions, able to choose between good and evil. In order for Adam and Eve to truly be “free” – they had to have a choice.

The tree itself was not evil but the act of disobeying is what resulted in their death, meaing death of the spirit and separation from Go.

Eating the fruit doesn’t give Adam and Eve the knowledge but disobeying and their free will to disobey God is what resulted in the sin. It was the act of disobedience that opened Adam and Eve’s eyes to evil. Their sin of disobeying God brought sin and evil into the world and into their lives.
Genesis 3:6-7, “When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.”

God allowed Satan to tempt Adam and Eve to force them to make the choice. Adam and Eve chose, of their own free wills, to disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit. The result – evil, sin, suffering, sickness, and death have plagued the world ever since.

Their decision resulted in each and every person being born with a sin nature, a tendency to sin. This is the way it worked and its the way God set it up. Adam and Eve's decision is what ultimately required the prophesy for a messiah to come, Jesus Christ to die on the cross and shed His blood on our behalf and rise again not counted on by Satan. Through faith in Christ, we can be free from sin's consequences, and ultimately free from sin itself. May we echo the words of the Apostle Paul in Romans 7:24-25, “What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God - through Jesus Christ our Lord!”

reply to post by badmedia

Good story, in the end, he gives them understanding of the scriptures, not just the literal scriptures themselves.

Yes, I have always liked that story for showing both the importance of discussion and reasoning involved, but also as you pointed out that understanding is given.

And, it all begins with communing together and reasoning.

Those who understand the scriptures are those who will not be fooled. If everything is only ever seen and remembered in it's literal words, then it sets up god as external, which allows an external figure to come in and claim to be it.

True. The image of God that we are made in must be found within us, where the Kingdom is.

Jesus tells them - be not afraid of those who can merely kill the body, but when you look at how Christians without understanding act, they do live in fear of it. They are in such deep fear, they will do things which go against the commandments and kill.

And this explains the patience of the saints, as mentioned in the Book of Revelation.

Discussion and reasoning brings truth and understanding. As Jesus is truth, when you have found and understand truth, then Jesus is that much closer to you. I can understand that.

Yes, but how to bring the other levels into discussion?

I'm probably pretty bad when it comes to my own opinion.

LOL, I know what you mean. That happens when having certitude, which is built upon the rock rather than the sands that wash away.

Ever consider that those who have only the basic literal understandings are also fearful of admitting just one of their ideas is wrong because if they are wrong about that one thing, then it is possible that everything else they believe is a farce. That too can create quite a bit of fear as it brings everything into question.

Though, if Jesus is to be trusted, and I believe He is, He said to have no fear. That alone should be an indication that something isn't understood, if fear is had.

If I thought I was wrong, I would change my opinion(and have).

Been there, done that.

I don't think having an opinion in itself is bad, but failure to look past that opinion in light of evidence suggesting otherwise is. An error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to fix it kind of thing.

I agree.

Originally posted by tgambill
The preachers, Pastors, Ministers, Popes, and many others have fallen away and this includes Obama, Bush, Osteen, Billy Graham, Hagee, Copeland, Braizer, Paisley, TD Jakes, as I can't judge by no stretch of the imagination, I can say that they are not telling the truth if they claim to be Christians and some born again they are not speaking this doctine.

I don't disagree. I did not support the Iraq war. I supported the Afgan war, and was wrong for it. That was back before I started questioning things.

I would think that an proclaimed atheist would say that there is no God nor is their a Satan. Okay....but someone claiming to be an atheist and claiming a God also is not okay. a born again Chrisitian if one claims to be will also reflect that belief...right?

Bush claims to be born again or did....?????

New age beliefs...........
www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Ahhh, did you notice Bush actually told the truth in the first video? He said this war was between 2 evils. Watch it again. You know, many times GWB does actually tell the truth, but not on purpose or meaning.

I'll refer you to the 2nd movie you posted. It mentions exactly what I am talking about. I said GWB claimed to be a christian. This is like the son who said yes, but didn't go. Politicians say and do whatever it takes to get elected and hold onto the power.

And this is why I have such words with people who put so much importance on the idol of Jesus, rather than his teachings and understandings. Because people like GWB, get up and hide behind the name of Jesus, faith and the cross. Then the people who do not have understanding follow those people. Then they do opposite. It is because their entire lives, they have had that Jesus died on the cross for their sins, and all they have to do is believe in that 1 thing and you are saved. I know, I was saved by 8 different churches, and not once did anything happen to me. As much as I believed that, no understandings came to me. It wasn't until I started questioning things - thus seeking, did understanding come to me. And my understanding did not come from the bible, but the truth and understanding I did learn is most certainly contained in the bible.

In the 2nd video you notice the Pharisees he is speaking with quotes the scripture word for word perfectly. And yet Jesus - you say it so well, but here is the understanding behind it.

And if you focus only on the literal word, then you will not agree or see the truth within other religions. You will only see separation. It is not until you look at the understandings that you will start to see the similarities. Where you once saw differences, you now see common understandings.

A sorcerer is someone who uses words to manipulate people, and that is what puts them under a spell, and they put the power into a symbol, and those under the spell follow and do things for that symbol. Thus a false idol. Thus what the mainstream church does by putting all the importance on the cross and Jesus instead of the understandings.

Originally posted by tgambill
****No where in the history of mankind can you even come close to justifying that the events in the Revelations has happened. NONE. This is why Its useless to debate with pagans and those that do not search for truth but seek to distort the truth.

Not true, it has happened in smaller events many times. It has never happened on the scale of revelations. This is where you need wisdom, because then you will see the actions that are done, why they are bad and then you can see bits and pieces here and there.

It's like when people think social security numbers were the mark, then barcodes, now microchips. While the SSN and barcodes were not the true mark in themselves, they do follow the pattern and allow for the mark system to be built. These are advances people were seeing in the making of it.

*****So, you are a Satanist or Luciferian whatever you call yourselves. Your true colors have shown clearly. They are black.

News flash - you've already taken from the tree of knowledge. To ignore this fact is about like getting drunk at a bar, and then denying you are drunk and trying to drive home. As well, are you suggesting god didn't already know we would do such?

Don't really disagree to much on the rest of it. Except to say that when you say Jesus is needed to come, it is to show them the truth so they can gain the knowledge and understand. To see the good, not just the evil is to give understanding. And this is what I mean by revelations and the increased evil in the world bringing out that good. Nothing makes a white dot stick out more than a black background. Thus why all the things happening in revelations sound bad, it is in fact revealing the truth in the process and bringing understanding.

For example, I never questioned any of this stuff or worried about it at all until 9/11. And even then I was like KILL EM!!! It wasn't until the Iraq stuff started, and I was like - ummmm, this makes no sense that I started searching. So while GWB has been pretty bad in what he has done, his actions did in fact wake me up to the true reality.

You are only fooling yourself if you really believe the Revelations has happened. If you read the prophesy then those that know will know that you are lying or greatly deceived. The Tribulations won’t be silent when it happens. You are making up lies as you go along. They will come back on you. Christians who are in the word or leaders who are being misleading will not know the signs nor the true word of God According to the Revelations. The SSN’s, barcodes and now microchips are the mark of the beast. They get you ready phase by phase and little by little. You don’t know how these people think or how they are actually pulling this off. The sad thing is, you will know but will be totally unprepared for the truth when it is actually revealed. All your beliefs, positive thinking, desires have no bearing when the will of God is going according to prophesy.

Of course we all have been cursed by the act of Adam and Eve. God did know this would happen.

No, when Jesus comes he will judge as truth has been revealed. Increased evil in the world does not bring out good, it just condemns more souls to hell.

Bush like all the presidents are mere puppets for the Illuminati………..

reply to post by tgambill


Wow man, do you even read what I write? I said the actions of revelations has happened many times on a small scale. But it has never happened on a large scale such as what the bible says. Then you go on and pretty much repeat what I say.

No, it hasn't. As I said before, you have not seen the tribulations yet. They have not happened yet. You will know without a doubt when the first Earthquake happens. There will be no mistake.

You want truth........here is the truth of what is behind the scenes. The evidence I have confirms this link and the link matches exactly. In fact the conspirators are worshippers of Satan/Luciferians. There is no way this can be refuted as the evidence is overwhelming and irrefutable.

www.fdrs.org...

we are dealing this today..............