Either there is no god and no paranormal... or there are billions of good liars and dreamers

BM, You are either being mislead or you are lying and using double talk to confuse those that are lukewarm Christians. Let me explain something to you. Satan/Lucifer is a deceiver and liar. He is also clever. One of Satan’s greatest achievements was to convince mankind that he doesn’t exist and that he is a mere representation of evil that is among men, and so forth. The second mask he has presented for others is that he is Satan, evil, ugly, big, a monster that scares children and adults alike and so forth. The followers of Satan known he is evil and therefore wear the black clothes and sacrifice people, animals, sing the demonic heavy metal bands etc….However, for the more sophisticated, powerful and elite he comes to them as Lucifer, an Angel of light and truth, and so forth. His fallen angels come to the elite as beings of light, illuminated, peaceful and benevolent. This is also a lie and is Satan in another form. The Illuminati worship this benevolent character of Satan and to their deaths soon. There is but one God, his only “begotten” son is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God in human form and he took human form as he can, to be able to have a personal relationship with his children, us, and to die on the cross for our sins so that we may live not see truth. We see truth through the Holy Spirit and through the Bible which quotes the words of God in the Old Testament and of Jesus in the New Testament.
Jesus did not give up his life so that they could see truth. I asked you before, where are your verses and not your own commentary or your truth. You are constantly saying the things you think Jesus is saying, then I assume that you are using the Bible that you also discredit as being the word of God. So, where are these words of Jesus that you are using coming from? If you can’t provide references then you are in direct violation of any debating forum. So that I’m not in violation let me provide you with references. Christ is savior of all, 1 Timothy 4:10; Christ made an atonement for all, 1 John 2:2; Christ didn’t give up his life for truth, he paid the price for all in the world; 2 Corinthians 5:19 and 1 Timothy 2: 5,6; 2 Peter 2:1.
Jesus’s blood confirms the new covenant, Hebrews 9:20; DIED FOR OUR SINS, 1 Peter 3:18; Made peace, Collossians 1:20; Hebrews 7:27; 10:12; Revelation 5:9; Hebrews 9:12, 28; and Galatians 3:13. Works not involved, Romans 11:6; and a timetable for his plan, Galatians 4:4. John 3:3.
Now this is only beginning as my fingers were getting tired but I can go on another page.

You said that if God just wanted to forgive people, he could have done it without Jesus????? Where is this gem referenced. You know nothing about the Old Testament and the difference of the New or even the role of Jesus. I can’t decide whether you are Mormon or strictly a new Ager with a little Luciferian wantabee.
“I said your literal version of what happened is a lie. I did not say Jesus was a lie. In fact, I said Jesus was truth, the opposite of a lie.”
*****Strictly double talk and trying to confuse with simply minded sentence reversal.

“And yet, I was taught by the holy spirit. And during those lessons the name Jesus was never once mentioned.”
******The Holy Spirit was not talking to you then. It was Lucifer and he came to you as the deceptive angel in light which is as evil as his character named Satan. Jesus is the Holy Spirit and Jesus is God in human form.


You speak only the truth of the New Age Religion which is from Satan. It is the same form as Nazism and I can compare the New Age Movement tenant by tenant to be Nazism in another name.
We have free will and if we invite Jesus in our heart and accept his free gift of salvation then we are changed. By this a fool will change his ways because only through Jesus can we receive the Holy Spirit. ONLY through Jesus.
So the Holy Spirit doesn’t know Jesus? Read Matthew 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; and John 1:32. Romans 1:4 and the SPIRIT REMINDS US of JESUS’s TEACHINGS, John 14:26. In John 14:28 Jesus clearly says “the Father is greater than I”, meaning God is greater because Jesus came to us as human and will come again.

You have no connection with the God of the Bible and he is the one true God. So, you better go back and reflect which god you are in contact with. God sees you as he does all of us in the same way. We are all his children and the only way we can be with him is laid out in Romans 10:9 and repent.



“If Jesus only wanted to rule over the earth he would have done so when offered.”
****Who offered him to rule over the Earth? Satan Offered the riches of the world and to rule but Jesus turned him down, because they were his to give but only temporarily, secondly the barter was that Jesus was to worship Satan.

www.rc.net...

Matthew 4:1-11 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Matthew 4
1Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
This temptation is aimed to get Jesus to achieve his mission without the cross.
• The kingdoms of the world belong to the devil Luke 4:6, 1 John 5:19, Jesus did not dispute this, at the seventh trumpe

Lets use a checklist and see where BM lies in his beliefs.........call a spade a spade..

There are many who are unaware of the New Age Movement and do not know how to even detect the signs of this spreading belief system. Yes…belief system. This is truly dangerous because ALL people are being directly affected today.

What are some of the beliefs of New Age philosophy.

1. God is All. God is in All. We are therefore God-like.

2. We can achieve transformation of self to a higher enlightenment.

3. If we unite and share the same belief system there can be peace in this world.

4. We are not accountable to anyone but ourselves.

5. There is no such thing as sin. Therefore we are not in need of forgiveness.

6. Being spiritual is based in mysticism and its techniques.

7. All religions lead to God.

8. Your spiritual life is based on feelings and emotions.

9. There is a higher knowledge available to the spiritual elite.

10. Humans can attain perfection and are divine.

11. Evil is a misperception of reality.

12. All judgments and values are relative… not truth.

13. Change is always good.

14. Jesus was a good man and prophet but not the Son of God.

This list is not exhaustive by any means and there are many facets to each belief. But you may be thinking, Hey….none of these things have affected me or family and friends. Well….Let’s see.

Have you joined a “green” movement to save the earth?

Do you know anyone who participates in Yoga, acupunture, or therapeutic massage?

Have you or a friend ever purchased a crystal to wear or dangle from your rearview mirror, or a message rock to keep in your pocket?

Do you read your horoscope or put any stock in your “sign”?

Ever used a Ouija board?

Joke about having the “Force” in Star Wars?

Ever seen anyone use a divining rod?

How about the pendulum over a pregnant women’s stomach at a baby shower to see if it is girl or a boy?

Tarot Cards?

Have you ever been asked to do any practice with meditation or visualizaion at a seminar at work?

Do you know anyone who has tried one of the spells performed by Harry Potter in his books or movies?

Ever had your palm read?…Fortune read by a Medium?

Have you studied Feng Shui in a room setting for universal life energy?

Have you ever spelled out the word “witch” with your muffin crumbs? (just kidding)

Let’s see…what else….tea leaf reading, numerology, ESP, psychic powers, spirit guides, scrying, ball gazing, auras, astrology, omen interpretation, runes, astral travel… yep,..all occult.

It is my belief that the church is responsible for preparing Christians for the end time deceptions. All faiths will be accepted into the New Age One World Religion except Christianity. Why? Because of Jesus and who He really is, the Son of God, the only way to the Father. So what are the differences between the New Age and Christianity?

***************

The New Age teaches that enlightenment is the way to salvation.

Christianity teaches that grace and faith in Jesus Christ is our salvation.

***************

The New Age teaches that there are many ways to God.

Christianity teaches that there is only one way, through Jesus Christ.

***************

The New Age teaches that you are reincarnated till you get it right.

Christianity teaches that man dies once and then will be judged.

***************

The New Age teaches that Jesus was a good man, a prophet.

Christianity teaches that Jesus is the Son of God.

****************

The New Age teaches that the second coming is happening within all who are enlightened.

Christianity teaches that Jesus will physically come to earth again in judgment.

**************

The New Age teaches that the Bible is wrong and needs to be corrected.

Christianity teaches that the Word is inerrant and that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

**************

The New Age teaches that sin doesn’t exist.

Christianity teaches that if we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves.

**************

The New Age teaches a new way to pray with chanting and eastern meditation.

Christianity teaches we are to use a prayer like the Lord’s prayer, as Jesus taught us, and not use vain repetitions.

**************

The New Age teaches that pleasures are here to be taken and this is our purpose.

Christianity teaches that our purpose is to give God glory.

**************

To those around you who may be involved in the New Age/Emergent church: Pray for them, study the Word so you can present the truth, be kind..loving and patient.. and tell them what the Lord has done in your life. Be a godly example and walk with the Lord Jesus Christ. Ask Him to fill you with the Holy Spirit who will give you the words you need to say. If you stumble it is okay….just remember,

Isaiah 55:11. ” So is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and acheive the purpose for which i sent it.”

kimolsen.wordpress.com...

[edit on 21-11-2008 by tgambill]

actually (to the OP) ..

I look at it the reverse way that you do.

I see so many people believing in ghosts, in spirits, in paranormal, in witchcraft and magic, in psychic abilities and remote viewing abilities, telekinesis, telepathy, aliens, etc..

Yet, these same very people will be very much against "God". Really they tend to lash out at Christianity particularly, but all denominations of religion have had to deal with it in the modern age, this ridicule.

My question to these people is:

How can you believe in something so wild, out there, unexplainable, unprecedented, or any other word to describe how "not-normal" it is in the face of society, yet not believe in God or afterlife?

Specifically those who believe in paranormal like ghosts and poltergeists and even possessions. How can you believe in lost or wandering SPIRITS, disembodied .. meaning no body .. and yet not believe in God or an afterlife? If theres no afterlife, the ghost could not exist PERIOD. Now, if you want to say there is an afterlife but yet still no God, dont ask me how you'd explain or defend such a thing, but if that is your belief, then I'd say fine, and walk away thinking to myself that you are pretty dense.

The actual truth is what I wrote as found in the Bible and spoken by God himself and Jesus when he was on Earth. Simple.

It's called understanding. Do you realize the difference between knowing something and understanding something? Any fool can repeat bible verses, Even a computer can spit out bible verses. It's totally different than understanding WHY things happen. A computer can't give you understanding. Being able to reason and understand is what makes us human. That is our divinity.

You speak of a personal relationship with Jesus/God. But yet, you do not know anything that isn't in that book.

Your claims are that god is superstitious, illogical and immoral. You claim god loves everyone, and then you attribute characteristics to him that are worse than the worlds biggest dictators. If god were walking on the earth today in the form you talk about, he would be a Hitler or Saddam Hussein type. Where Jesus taught people freedom and that they were the authority, you constantly attribute Jesus as being about submission and slavery. You constantly quote the same book passages Hitler used to put the German people into submission.

That is not the nature of god that I know. That is the nature of Satan. You are blind and without understanding.

You constantly manipulate what I say and throw it into dualism. Sorry, but I do not carry such a dualistic mindset.

You then proceed to name single verses across many books. Which makes it near impossible for anyone to really debate against based on the sheer number of verses you have taken out of context. It would take me hours and hours to put each individual verse in it's proper context.

You said that if God just wanted to forgive people, he could have done it without Jesus????? Where is this gem referenced. You know nothing about the Old Testament and the difference of the New or even the role of Jesus. I can’t decide whether you are Mormon or strictly a new Ager with a little Luciferian wantabee.

It's called logic and understanding, not "double talk". What you suggest is that god is so limited, he actually had to sacrifice his own son to die for your sins to forgive you. And not really his son, but god himself. That is illogical. Tell me, why couldn't have god just realized people were as such, and just forgiven them? Tell me, why is god so material and superficial that he needs you to believe and worship 1 thing for forgiveness? It makes 0 logical sense.

And that is why the church is losing it's members. Because it doesn't give or teach understanding. It gives intolerance of others, it spreads hatred to those who aren't like them, and it's goal is to create a 1 world religion of Christians through power and persecution. These are all qualities of Satan, not Jesus. You look for a ruler of the world to be worshiped, and Satan will gladly come in and fit that role for you. Jesus however rejected these things, and instead taught people they were the authority, and told them about freedom.

What actually does make sense, is that god had to do it so that the world could see from the example. What actually does make sense is that Jesus had to show people the path, even when that path included death. What actually does make sense is that Jesus came to provide understanding. An understanding which you reject.

Sorry, but I refuse to believe that Hitler and Saddam Hussein are more moral than god. And that is exactly what you imply on a daily basis.

reply to post by tgambill


In your post about New Age. As I have seen you copy and paste that more than once now, it is the forum rules that you put such quotes in ex tags, and then provide a link to the source.

I also notice that by copying and pasting, you aren't actually debating against me, you are trying to group me into something you have pre-formed debate points about already. Does christianity condone you making up things about people and arguing against the things you made up about the person in defense of your beliefs?

Why do you continue to ignore John 14? Are you saying that Jesus is a liar when he said that the holy spirit will teach people if they do not hear and follow his words and saying? And then when it happens, as in my case, you deny it's possibility. And why? Because I put the importance on the actions of Jesus rather than the idol himself.

You say Jesus is god, and I have never disagreed with that - even though you continue to claim I have. However, you fail to realize that Jesus is simply the tool god used to speak to the people, and you instead focus on the tool instead of what the tool was used for - to bring a message and give understanding and reasoning behind things. As I said before, it is like using a bowl to carry milk to the cat, and then the cat worships and licks the bowl instead of the milk the bowl was used to carry. You care more about the tool/idol, then you do about the actual message. And even if someone agrees with the message, if they do not put the focus on the tool, you call them evil and Satan.

If you went to a job site, and told the people how to do the job. I think you might be upset if you came back at the end of the day, and they were sitting around talking about how great you were and instead of doing what you said, they had instead spent their efforts and time constructing statues and momuments to you. Or, if you have understanding, I am basically saying the same thing Matthew 7 says.

Now BM. don't get your panties in a pinch......there you go, the source.

kimolsen.wordpress.com...

Originally posted by SaintlyMic
Are you honestly believing your own words?

I could ask you the same question. You sound like a robot.

I bet it makes you mad when I type such things about God too doesn't it?

It's funny, because the bible ask for blind followers and that's exactly what it gets.

"People who are under the influence of Satan, a fallen angel from the perfect kingdom of heaven, (where there is no free will, so how he turned is beyond me) will try and tell you that God doesn't exist. But "we" know he is real."

"Hey everyone, God's jumping off a bridge lets go!!! He won't let us faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall."

Yeah religion has done some good, but it does more harm. We should never program people to think exactly alike, we will never have new ideas and grow if we continue this practice.

[edit on 21-11-2008 by Scaye]

The rest of the verses you provided are talking about you. You are missing the whole point.

I almost missed this post. Before the flood, Genesis 6 talks about the "Sons of God". I have since discovered who this is talking about. The Sons of God are Angelic beings, either fallen angels or beings created by God but given human form. Either way Satan corrupted man and then sought to corrupt these beings. Just as the scriptures say they took dauthers of man and made them wives and created by mating the Nephilim. The Nephilim were giants and men of renown or high intelligence. Satan figured that he would destroy the royal line of Adam so that the Messiah would not be born under the Royal lineage. There was much evil, human sacrifices, giants 12-30 ft tall or more, and super-intelligent nephilim. God brought the flood to destroy this corrupt creation saving Noah that had pure human blood and was part of the chosen. Well, after the flood the Sons of God, immortal as they are, returned to start again. Nimrod and Goliath are prime examples. They are the Illuminati of today.

reply to post by tgambill


Hi,

1. God is All. God is in All. We are therefore God-like.

Jesus said: Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'? John 10:34

You dispute Jesus?

2. We can achieve transformation of self to a higher enlightenment.

Yet, the bible teaches that exactly this is necessary:

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. Romans 12:1

3. If we unite and share the same belief system there can be peace in this world.

All those who actually do know Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit agree.

Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity.

Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful. Colossians 3:14-15

4. We are not accountable to anyone but ourselves.

People are to work out their OWN salvation (Philippians 2:12).

5. There is no such thing as sin. Therefore we are not in need of forgiveness.

To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. Titus 1:14

Religion is for the spiritually sick. Hence, the sinner's prayer.

6. Being spiritual is based in mysticism and its techniques.

Mysticism and spirituality come as a result of the technique of following Jesus too.

7. All religions lead to God.

How do you know they don't? Jesus said: I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. John 10:16

8. Your spiritual life is based on feelings and emotions.

If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. John 14:15

9. There is a higher knowledge available to the spiritual elite.

I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.

But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. John 16:12-13

10. Humans can attain perfection and are divine.

"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5:48

It sure looks like you dispute Jesus more than anyone.

“How about you show me where Jesus ever mentions a bible. He had nothing but contempt for the scribes.”

*****And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.

“And btw, why is it you can sin against the name of Jesus and be forgiven, but you can not sin against the holy spirit and be forgiven?”

*****There you go making up things to say at random. Who said this which verse?

reply to post by tgambill

“And btw, why is it you can sin against the name of Jesus and be forgiven, but you can not sin against the holy spirit and be forgiven?”

*****There you go making up things to say at random. Who said this which verse?

Seriously, you don't know? And you are trying to teach?

I"ll play along, who said you can sin against the name of Jesus? provide the verse and the name. If you sin, you can ask for forgiveness through the name of Jesus and God will forgive. If you "blastpheme the Holy spirit" that convicts you it will not forgive because the Holy Spirit is not the saving spirit of God. Jesus Christ is the one that paid the price and therefore the only one that can forgive. All three, God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are God, but in different roles to fill different "missions". The Holy Spirit didnt die on the Cross. He is talking about blastphemy of the Holy Spirit and not sins. This is different.

The term blasphemy may be defined as "defiant irreverence." A person would apply the term to specific sins as cursing God, or willfully degrading things relating to God. In addition it is also attributing some evil to God, or denying Him some good that we should attribute to Him.

The case of blasphemy, however, is a specific one, called "THE blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" in Matthew 12:31. In Matthew 12:31-32, the Pharisees, having witnessed irrefutable proof that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that the Lord was possessed by the demon "Beelzebub" (Matthew 12:24). Now notice that in Mark 3:30 Jesus is very specific about what exactly they did to commit "the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit."

There is however, an unpardonable state of existence or a state of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief or is a nonbeliever after the Tribulations and the second coming of Jesus. Continual rejection of the Holy Spirit’s promptings to trust in Jesus Christ is the unpardonable blasphemy.

I cite John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have eternal life." The only condition when someone would have no forgiveness is if that someone is not among the "whoever believes in Him

reply to post by tgambill

He is talking about blastphemy of the Holy Spirit and not sins. This is different.

Again you dispute what Jesus has said.

Its amazing how you folks hide behind the very religion you are alleged to support. I can bear all that you send because most of it is subtle twists.

"How do you know they don't? Jesus said: I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. John 10:16"

He is referring to the gentiles. He didnt' come to earth for the gentiles his earthly mission was for the Jews. However, he provided A LIGHT FOR REVELATION TO THE GENTILES" as echoed with Simeon's statement in Luke 2:27-32:

The Bible is clear on what the early Jewish Christians (all of the very early Christians were Jews) thought of the Gentiles. They were to be avoided. Even Jesus commands the Apostles to tend only to the lost sheep of Israel and not to go to the Gentiles and Samaritans. Jesus, in the fullness of time, would reveal the future salvation plan for the Gentiles. Those plans are precisely prophesied in John 10:16.

Only until the Holy Spirit commanded Peter to share the Word of God to the Gentiles (Acts 10:9-48..."Peter's vision"), which took place AFTER the death of Christ, was it then the Kingdom of God was opened to them. The following verses show that point to be true:

Acts 13:46-48: "Then Paul and Barnabas answered them (the challenging Jews) boldly: 'We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the GENTILES. For this is what the Lord has commanded us: 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed [the Elect] for eternal life believed.'"

Acts 14:27: "On arriving there, they gathered the church together and reported all that God had done through them and how he had opened the door of faith to the GENTILES."

Acts 15:7: "After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: 'Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the GENTILES might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.'"

The above verses indicate that the Gentile, his other lost sheep began to be admitted to the Kingdom AFTER Christ's death...AFTER He made his statement of 'other sheep' in John 10:16. Hence, the other sheep are the Gentiles. In Ephesians 3:6: "This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus." The Jews and Gentiles had now become one fold with one Shepherd as Christ had prophesied.

Remember that the Gentiles were not of Christ's fold when He was alive. (Matt10:5-6, Acts 10:28). Jesus explicitly commanded the Apostles to minister to the Jews and forego any contact with the Gentiles. (Matt 10:5-6). He [Jesus] was sent only to the Jews. (Matt 15:21-28) and the Gentiles were considered not of the Jewish Fold. (Acts 10:28). However, the Kingdom of God was opened to the Gentiles after the death of Christ. (Acts 13,14,15). Therefore as always the prophecy of bringing other sheep into the fold is fulfilled (Eph 3:6)

Jesus said that you cannot serve two masters. One is Satan and the other is Jesus/God. The Bible is specific with no mysticism or contradictions. Teh fallen sons of God brought the occult and mysticism to the world. I have provided the verses necessary to demostrate that Jesus is the only way. Man invents his own religion with no inspiration except himself or Satan. Mormons believe that we as man will inherit a planet all our own and become as Gods, others believe in reincarnation...not. Any religion that exaults man is a false religion.

Give me the verse that I dispute the words of Jesus.........exactly

"I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.

But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. John 16:12-13 "

*****He has already disclosed in the Revelation and in the prophesy of Daniel.

You folks are clever in the ways you appear to be benevolent and distort the word of God in the Bible. Other methods you have used, not you personally, but those like you that distort the true gospel. Other methods, are to come up with the additional tranlations like the NIV, American Standard etc......that changes the words in subtle ways. The King James Version is the only true word of God just as it says in the Revelation 22: 18:21. God's inspiration guided the translation of this book and the scribes that translated it did so in prayer and discernment and Gods hands.