Society without God:Better or worse?, page 3

reply to post by Lucifer Rising

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I always assumed that everyone was ultimately talking about the same reality. Shows you what I know about humans. But since you believe that there are a multitude of gods who lead people to war against one another, to answer your question...

I think my God should rule because he is the toughest of all of them. He taught me how to make war without weapons and showed me how to capture the entire world without anyone even knowing. So, that way while everyone else is fighting trying to get more power and destroying one another, I'll sit around with my family laughing my butt off and eventually all the bad people will disappear and I don't have to take any of the blame.

reply to post by bruxfain

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Ok great, now two problems.

1. you just made up your god, so...ya know...enough said.

2. you said the world would be better off if we all had him. Now you just want to keep him selfishly away and watch everyone else kill each other off?

Originally posted by bruxfain
reply to post by Lucifer Rising

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I always assumed that everyone was ultimately talking about the same reality.

Reality? I thought we were talking about god?

Furthermore, you always assumed everyone agreed on who god is and what it means to know him? Seriously? Do you have any idea what they are fighting about in the middle east? I will give you a hint, they think it is the same god too.

reply to post by Lucifer Rising

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I didn't just make up my God, he is real. I saw him once.

I believe he has made himself known to all of you at one point in time or another. You've decided to go a different direction. You see, my God is about freedom and if you choose destruction for yourself, destruction for yourself is what you will get.

It sounds like you want God to force you to be something you are not. I choose to live my life as a powerful and immortal Elf who treats the whole world as as a toy and have many beautiful children who live free of the tedium of mortals because that is what I am.

You choose to live chained to a rock. Oh, you removed your Avatar.

reply to post by bruxfain

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Chen Tao, Concerned Christians, Jesus' Army, The Raelians, Charles Manson, Aleister Crowley, all these people had the same god you mention. The world is so much better for having had them in our lives.

reply to post by Lucifer Rising

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God is Reality, Reality is God. In the middle east, those people are fighting over Reality. Its just now becoming apparent to all that none of them can win. Propably because I have it.

Originally posted by bruxfain
reply to post by Lucifer Rising

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I didn't just make up my God, he is real. I saw him once.

I believe he has made himself known to all of you at one point in time or another. You've decided to go a different direction. You see, my God is about freedom and if you choose destruction for yourself, destruction for yourself is what you will get.

It sounds like you want God to force you to be something you are not. I choose to live my life as a powerful and immortal Elf who treats the whole world as as a toy and have many beautiful children who live free of the tedium of mortals because that is what I am.

You choose to live chained to a rock. Oh, you removed your Avatar.

I did not remove my avatar, I guess someone had a problem with it and ATS removed it.

Again, I am not my avatar. My name is not lucifer and I am not chained to a rock. That is a screen name and a picture to use on a web forum. I know I went over this.

You saw your god and you are an elf? I got it now.

got my avatar back, I hope that helps you a bit since that seems to be the extent of your research into a person's character.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by Lucifer Rising]

reply to post by bruxfain

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It seems you are saying that "God" may be a dividing force in society but that this division may be part of a plan.

Do you believe that a division is positive and may lead to a better society?

reply to post by Lucifer Rising

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Yes, what's so hard to believe about that? I posted my image as my avatar. That's why assume everyones Avatar was descriptive. Actually that's from about 120 years ago, I look a little different now.

Are you going to try and prove that the image of my avatar is not an Elf?



[edit on 1-11-2008 by bruxfain]

reply to post by Lucifer Rising

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I think I see that you are leaning toward the view that society would be better and advance fast without "God" and a punishment reward belief.

Would you give some more examples?

Originally posted by deepred
reply to post by bruxfain

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It seems you are saying that "God" may be a dividing force in society but that this division may be part of a plan.

Do you believe that a division is positive and may lead to a better society?

No, what I am saying is that man has divided himself. Man created race and religion and politics and economic theories, etc. When God returns to our hearts and minds the people that are the guardians, keepers if you will, of our divisions, turn upon one another. War, not just on the battlefield but in all parts of society. The ones that accept the infinite abandon the ways of dead things and ideas, and embrace life.

Its not God doing anything, but the inevitable consequence of the thoughts of mortals and other things that die.

Eventually the negative energy will burn itself out, leaving behind the rest. I don't want to say its positive and get into some big thing about it. I simply accept it for what it is...their choice.

Originally posted by bruxfain
reply to post by Lucifer Rising

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Yes, what's so hard to believe about that? I posted my image as my avatar. That's why assume everyones Avatar was descriptive. Actually that's from about 120 years ago, I look a little different now.

Are you going to try and prove that the image of my avatar is not an Elf?



[edit on 1-11-2008 by bruxfain]

Absolutely not. I am going point in the direction of almost any avatar on here. Other than that, I will just enjoy watching the lines of reality slip away as we go from believing everyone knows the same god, to you meeting him in person, to you being a centuries old elf. I think we have run our course.

Originally posted by deepred
reply to post by Lucifer Rising

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I think I see that you are leaning toward the view that society would be better and advance fast without "God" and a punishment reward belief.

Would you give some more examples?

Close enough. I certainly am of the strong opinion that faith in anything is a hinderence to real knowledge. Nothing should ever be taken on faith when we have the ability to explore and learn. God was once the reason it was light during the day, the stars moved, why people died at different times, whether or not ground was fertile for planting, and on and on and on. At some point, someone stopped taking for granted that god just did these things and looked into it. We discovered diseases and treatments, we learned about soil quality and how to get around it or move from it, and on and on...

It is only when people stop accepting these things on faith, and really look, that we advance as a people.

I am not sure what you are asking for examples of exactly though.

reply to post by Lucifer Rising

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Then if you believe that and do all of these wonderful things based on your reason, then answer me this...


Why can't you stop the war in Iraq or Afghanistan?
Why did the global financial system collapse last month and why can't any of your educated men fix it?
Why is famine widespread throughout the world?
Why are the British rationing food?

I could go on and on. You claim your knowledge and learning are advanced but you can't even make your society work properly.

You probably think this chaos is normal, but it is not. When I press the gas pedal in my car is moves, when I press the brakes, it stops. Society was designed like any other machine, but your machine is broken and not you or anyone you know can fix it. Why is that?

Originally posted by bruxfain
reply to post by Lucifer Rising

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Then if you believe that and do all of these wonderful things based on your reason, then answer me this...


Why can't you stop the war in Iraq or Afghanistan?
Why did the global financial system collapse last month and why can't any of your educated men fix it?
Why is famine widespread throughout the world?
Why are the British rationing food?

I could go on and on. You claim your knowledge and learning are advanced but you can't even make your society work properly.

You probably think this chaos is normal, but it is not. When I press the gas pedal in my car is moves, when I press the brakes, it stops. Society was designed like any other machine, but your machine is broken and not you or anyone you know can fix it. Why is that?

LOL, what??? I am in charge? It is my society now? No one had told me that I was running things.

Seriously, I not only do not have a clue how to respond, I would love to know what the star is for? Do others somehow believe you that I am in charge of society?

Why can I not stop the war? Why would I ever be able to stop any war? What are you talking about?

Why is there bad stuff in the world? Cuz life is unfair. What does any of that have to do with me?

reply to post by Lucifer Rising

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"We discovered diseases and treatments, we learned about soil quality and how to get around it or move from it, and on and on...

It is only when people stop accepting these things on faith, and really look, that we advance as a people."

Those are your words up there young man. Take some ownership. You claimed to be a part of some group that has discovered diseases and treatments, advanced understanding about soil quality. And you want others to abandon their faith so that they along with you can advance as a people.

But now you can't fix society. Your resume and accomplishments were very impressive, but when it comes time to really solve a problem you're nowhere to be found. There is nothing you can do about it. You're the kind of guy that will tell millions of starving people...cuz life ain't fair. And you expect to be taken seriously.

Your avatar and name is very descriptive of your personality, actually.

My point is that the world of so-called knowledge has failed. Here is a recent quote I enjoy:

"We have lost control," said Hale, quoting Bernanke. "We cannot stabilize the dollar. We cannot control commodity prices."

Its funny because it is true. This world has been taken from man and most don't even know it yet. But you obviously have the face to explain your point of view despite it failure.


I am sure glad that I have God and hope for the future. What do you have?

Originally posted by bruxfain
reply to post by Lucifer Rising

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"We discovered diseases and treatments, we learned about soil quality and how to get around it or move from it, and on and on...

It is only when people stop accepting these things on faith, and really look, that we advance as a people."

Those are your words up there young man. Take some ownership. You claimed to be a part of some group that has discovered diseases and treatments, advanced understanding about soil quality. And you want others to abandon their faith so that they along with you can advance as a people.

We as a people. The same people that defied god and believed the earth was round and NOT the center of the universe. I am sorry, I forgot that you were an elf. I am human, I am part of the human race. That is the "we" that I speak of. Are you really this dense? I have to believe at this point that you are just playing with me because I find it hard to believe that you really thought I was speaking of some elite special group when discussing man's achievements.

reply to post by bruxfain

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You know what I enjoy about you? You never really answer to anything. You accuse, assume, and assign. I respond, joyfully answering to every charge and question. You just ignore the same volley back and move on to your next set of irrational arguments that are going nowhere. I would kind of like to know what land your race of elves comes from. I cannot help but believe that will only help this discussion further.

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