Society without God:Better or worse?

I'll illustrate to you where you are wrong. The photo is gggrandfather, direct male. In a physical way of thinking, he is someone else. In a more cosmic way of thinking, it is me. Its quite simple really and not at all dishonest.

But I am sure if someone committed themselves to the task, they could make it into something it is not. Feel free to think of it what you will.

Originally posted by bruxfain
I'll illustrate to you where you are wrong. The photo is gggrandfather, direct male. In a physical way of thinking, he is someone else. In a more cosmic way of thinking, it is me. Its quite simple really and not at all dishonest.

I see. If you established that to begin with, I probably wouldn't have commented on it. But I still would like to know what "qualifies" you to be an elf, or what an elf actually is.

Originally posted by Lucifer Rising
reply to post by bruxfain

 

Um...no.

I have been all over the topic. Of course that response was not to me, but I am like that.

When did we have 'my' world? I must have missed that.

Seriously. Just answer these things

1. When and where did my world ever exsist.

2. What is "my" world?

3. How would you know?

4. Where do elves come from in America?

5. Why should anyone take an elf seriously about anything?

In one of your posts your refered to "we as a people" when refering to the superiority of technological advancement and the brutality of religion, but you like to socialize success and privatize failure. So, I just mean people who are your philosophical brothers and the types of worlds people who think like you create. Ones that die.

Your world exists whereever and whenever it is that you are.

Your world is your perception of reality. Which is soon to be changed.

You are alive aren't you, or am I communicating with a machine.

Arkansas

Becaue elves are older than you and after everything that you and your philosophical brothers have created turns to back to dirt...This elf will remain.

That was simple enough. Hope you can build on it.

reply to post by flyindevil



elf is short for elfain. I am bruxfain, an elf. At least that's what I tell people at parties. Sometimes I just say I am a Scyth or a Phoenician, any of them works. But I like elf more because its a good conversation starter and most people have forgotten what is a Scyth or Phoenician, they think we are extinct.

Originally posted by Lucifer Rising
Let's try it this way. list all of the societies that have been godless and fell because of it. Now list all the societies that have known god and fell because of it.

I will give you a hint, you will not be able to finish the second list in your lifetime, but the first will fit on a few pages.

Or are you saying you know the one and only true god and EVERYONE else that claims to know one is wrong? This causes some problems with your argument too.

Well lets first look at India (the place of Hindu gods etc) peaceful nation wouldnt you say ?
Frauds 41,403 [12th of 48]
Illicit drugs
world's largest producer of licit opium for the pharmaceutical trade, but an undetermined quantity of opium is diverted to illicit international drug markets; transit point for illicit narcotics produced in neighboring countries; illicit producer of methaqualone; vulnerable to narcotics money laundering through the hawala system; licit ketamine and precursor production
Illicit drugs
world's largest producer of licit opium for the pharmaceutical trade, but an undetermined quantity of opium is diverted to illicit international drug markets; transit point for illicit narcotics produced in neighboring countries; illicit producer of methaqualone; vulnerable to narcotics money laundering through the hawala system; licit ketamine and precursor production
Manslaughters 3,912 [3rd of 42]
Murders 37,170 [1st of 49]
Police 1,032,960 [1st of 47]
Prisoners 313,635 prisoners [4th of 0]
Prisoners > Female 3% [92nd of 134]
Prisoners > Per capita 29 per 100,000 people [153rd of 164]
Prisoners > Pre-trial detainees 70.4% [8th of 143]
Prisoners > Share of prison capacity filled 136.5% [44th of 128]
Rapes 15,468 [5th of 50]
Robberies 28,411 [13th of 47]
Software piracy rate 69% [43rd of 107]
Total crimes 1,764,630 [10th of 50]
Transnational Issues > Trafficking in persons > Current situation
India is a source, destination, and transit country for men, women, and children trafficked for the purposes of forced or bonded labor and commercial sexual exploitation; the large population of men, women, and children - numbering in the millions - in debt bondage face involuntary servitude in brick kilns, rice mills, and embroidery factories, while some children endure involuntary servitude as domestic servants; internal trafficking of women and girls for the purposes of commercial sexual exploitation and forced marriage also occurs; the government estimates that 90 percent of India's sex trafficking is internal; India is also a destination for women and girls from Nepal and Bangladesh trafficked for the purpose of commercial sexual exploitation; boys from Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are trafficked through India to the Gulf states for involuntary servitude as child camel jockeys; Indian men and women migrate willingly to the Persian Gulf region for work as domestic servants and low-skilled laborers, but some later find themselves in situations of involuntary servitude including extended working hours, nonpayment of wages, restrictions on their movement by withholding of their passports or confinement to the home, and physical or sexual abuse
www.nationmaster.com...


Sounds really wonderful ..doesnt it ?

Ok which country do you want next ?

reply to post by Simplynoone


Nice, you do know you are backing up my point right? Please, show us some more societies that have a god in them and the wonderful things they do to spread evil and death.

Originally posted by bruxfain

Originally posted by Lucifer Rising
reply to post by bruxfain

 

Um...no.

I have been all over the topic. Of course that response was not to me, but I am like that.

When did we have 'my' world? I must have missed that.

Seriously. Just answer these things

1. When and where did my world ever exsist.

2. What is "my" world?

3. How would you know?

4. Where do elves come from in America?

5. Why should anyone take an elf seriously about anything?

In one of your posts your refered to "we as a people" when refering to the superiority of technological advancement and the brutality of religion, but you like to socialize success and privatize failure. So, I just mean people who are your philosophical brothers and the types of worlds people who think like you create. Ones that die.

Your world exists whereever and whenever it is that you are.

Your world is your perception of reality. Which is soon to be changed.

You are alive aren't you, or am I communicating with a machine.

Arkansas

Becaue elves are older than you and after everything that you and your philosophical brothers have created turns to back to dirt...This elf will remain.

That was simple enough. Hope you can build on it.

I really cannot believe I am wasting time responding to this because no one can truly be this stupid.

Yes we the people have made technological advances. Have we not? Are you saying that mankind has not progressed? Mankind has not 'evolved' it's thinking and learned to learn more? Mankind as a whole has not advanced at all?

But you want to take a specific incident perpetrated and controlled by certain people and call that the same?

I stubbed my toe yesterday and found a 20 dollar bill. I did not attribute either of these things to mankind as a whole either. Irrigation and the invention of fertilzer, yes. The wheel, fire, you bet. These things mankind can claim. I have never been to space but that does not mean that mankind has never mastered flight does it?

[edit on 1-11-2008 by Lucifer Rising]

Originally posted by bruxfain
reply to post by flyindevil

 

elf is short for elfain. I am bruxfain, an elf. At least that's what I tell people at parties. Sometimes I just say I am a Scyth or a Phoenician, any of them works. But I like elf more because its a good conversation starter and most people have forgotten what is a Scyth or Phoenician, they think we are extinct.

Does the institution know you are using a computer with internet access?

Yes, mankind did do many things. One of the things mankind accomplished, just recently, was to nearly destroy themselves and lose everything. The whole world watched it. You were saved, but you won't accept how or by whom.

I bet the people outside of this country know why the United States of America still exists, but you obviously do not. And you think you'll be able to, "contain the truth". Its not going to work out, I am happy to say.

That's really the funny thing. You have no clue what is happening in the world. Its not secret information. You think that being stuck on my wild claims will change anything?

Originally posted by Lucifer Rising
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

Nice, you do know you are backing up my point right? Please, show us some more societies that have a god in them and the wonderful things they do to spread evil and death.

Look you know as well I as I do that our country has went to (insert that smelly word here ) so much since we technologically advanced ...or "evolved as you say .......because man has gotten so spoiled in our country and they are all so convinced now that they are gods ...and have not only booted God out of their consciences but now are playing God ...there is no limit on what they will do ..some are already reprobate ...as I said before wanting to meld man with machine and man with animal genes,clones ..etc ...They are playing frankenstien and there will be SERIOUS ramifications ..you can count on that ..there already is with what they have come up with to put in our water,foods,the air we breath ...the plants all mutating into something they have no freaking clue what it will end up as ...Viruses mutating into GOD knows what ....I mean seriously stop fooling yourself and actually see whats going on ..how could it NOT end up in serious disaster ?
And how can they even stop it now ? There is no end to their madness ....

The few nifty little things they do come up with for us (our computers)(new meds that will just make us comfortable as we die from those diseases THAT MAN MUTATED into something they dont even know what to do with ) ..
Those few things are NOT WORTH THE PRICE mankind is gonna pay for doing what he is doing with NATURE and US HUMANS who are certainly at their mercy because who can stop them ?

The Frankenstein scenerio didnt end well remember ?


[edit on 1-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone

Call me naive, ignorant, stupid, whatever, but how has the country (the USA, I assume) gone to a "smelly word"? Give me a list of how the US has gotten worse.

Society without God:Better or worse?

Better.

Would society advance faster, or decline faster, without the belief in a higher power? A higher power that holds people accountable for there actions and sets moral values.

This is disgraceful and quite insulting to our race. Saying that we wouldn't know right from wrong without an invisible entity telling us such.

And we would advance much faster.

Would we still choose good over evil if there was no reward or punishment?

Another insult to humans. We only do good for rewards? I don't live that way...you might but definitely not me.

Would society and mankind advance more rapidly without the constrains of a God and the moral values set forth by religious teachings?

This is dumb...again... To say that moral values are set forth by religious teachings.

Would science become the new "religion"?

I doubt it.

Would the government be responsible for defining what is moral and good?

Again...You don't need someone to define them for you.

Would mankind become an animalistic culture, devoid of concience or remorse, with the only goals being self gratification without regard for others.

This is quite the hypocritical insult. It's quite obvious you're religious, and if you're not, you're in some gray area. Religious don't give me morals at all and I'm living a perfectly fine life, and I have many other goals besides those you listed. This is becoming more and more insulting and quite ridiculous.

Personaly, I believe the only reason we have made it this far is the belief in a higher power and the prospect of a reward or punishment for our actions.

That is self-centered, and it's sad you think that way.

This is disgraceful and quite insulting to our race. Saying that we wouldn't know right from wrong without an invisible entity telling us such.

And we would advance much faster.

Another insult to humans. We only do good for rewards? I don't live that way...you might but definitely not me.

This is dumb...again... To say that moral values are set forth by religious teachings.

So tell me how did you learn not to steal,kill,etc ?

Also yes it would advance to the point of EXTINCTION like where we are now ....

And no you may THINK you do not do anything for reward as you see it//
But for EGO which is SELF GLORYING which is still FOR REWARD from yourself and to be praised of by men .........no matter how you slice it ....

And Science is already a religion persay ...


[edit on 1-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone


Unfortunately, your assumption falls flat when considering not one religion shares the same moral code. BTW, I learned my morality from being exposed to growing up in a society, as others have said . . . that is where morals and sociatal norms come from . . . and are modified as I learn and grow. Same as Law . . . which was in existence long before the Abrahamic Laws . . . Hammurabi anyone. BTW - did you realize that A LOT of Rabbi's make the case that Moses wasn't given laws . . . they originated during the Jewish exile to Babylon? Genesis was then "edited" during/post exile.

There have been many studies about morality absent of God . . . So far not one study has come to the conclusion that we (sic) would be immoral heathens without God in their life . . . or civilization would collapse.

One of the many papers on morality without god . . .

[edit on 11/1/08 by solomons path]

[edit on 11/1/08 by solomons path]

Knowing right or wrong with or without God is impossible, since we only view truth from our own, pleasure-seeking ego. People seem to talk about morals with or without God and it doesn't matter, it isn't connected to God like a lot of people think.

Right now society is being controlled by nature, and peoples' nature, which is why we see such poor results. Even religion can not get past the nature people were born with, which is why religion is largely irrelevant. Traditional Christianity can not change peoples' nature, and it knows this, so it enforces rules upon people to make up for that fact. But this is putting a band aid over a vicious cancer, it doesn't address peoples' fundamental nature. A society with (true) God would allow us to rise above the nature and fate we are born into. We'd control our outcomes instead of them being decided for us.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by ghaleon12]

reply to post by solomons path


Unfortunately . . . the only people that think Science is a "religion" are those that look to supress it . . . usually Xians . . . that's a assumption based on bias, fear, and anxiety that science is, somehow, a replacement for god. You'll never see a secular person express that belief.

As far as EGO goes . . . how are the religious any different? Unless you are a boddisvata . . . Xians, Jews, Muslims have the same issues . . . USUALLY moreso due to the fact they think they are "backed" by the divine. The religious people I've encountered in my life have been far more egotistical than any of the non-religious people I've known.

Every religion (except satan) has at least the ten commandments that they go by in their laws ..
Loving your god
Loveing your neighbors as yourself
No stealing
etc etc ..those are all UNIVERSAL LAWS that I would bet are the main LAWS of every country ?
And if everyone would have just TRAINED themselves to OBEY at least those laws ...then who knows maybe we would not be in the mess we are in ..At least not to the extent that it is now ..mankind has no self control ...And God knew that so he sent his son to help us with that from the INSIDE ..and saved us from ourselves (our own destruction) ...basically ,.....

Where did those laws come from originally ? The Cosmos ? the big bang banged that out too ? I mean seriously where did those laws come from and how did they get to be so WIDE SPREAD even in countrys where they do not even believe in any God (Where the dictators are the gods) if they are not laws that would keep society at least IN CHECK somewhat ? >>>>>>

reply to post by ghaleon12


I'm not sure I'm getting you . . . you say with or without god . . . morality is about the ego/human nature, then you say without the (true)god we can never rise to a point of moral culture.

So . . . is god responsible or not? Is it human nature? Is it the shedding of the ego?

I think you've contradicted your own belief . . .

reply to post by Simplynoone


Well . . . since I wasn't around back then, like our resident elf . . . I'm of the opinion that those laws came from man, based on how to survive in a community. They are self-evident. Communities can not survive or remain "peaceful" when it's inhabitants go around "defaming" each other or people put their ego above the group.

You say "every religion" has ten laws? Can you provide links to a list of the religions and their ten . . . I'm willing to bet that beyond Judeo-Christian mythology, you won't find 10 laws that define every religion. I know Buddhism doesn't have 10 set laws . . . I know the Native American religions don't have 10 set laws . . . which other religions do?

Kabbalah and Gnosticism don't enforce any such rules. Why exactly should any rule be followed? "Obeying" is not going to solve anything because it doesn't correct the root of the problem. The appearance might change but there is no change in the core of a person, putting a band aid over a cancer comes to mind.