Society without God:Better or worse?

society without god: better or worse? irrelevant.

society without religion: better or worse? better.

Originally posted by bruxfain

Originally posted by deepred
Would society advance faster, or decline faster, without the belief in a higher power? A higher power that holds people accountable for there actions and sets moral values.

What would the new moral standard be?

Would we still choose good over evil if there was no reward or punishment?

Would we redefine what is good and what is evil?

Would society and mankind advance more rapidly without the constrains of a God and the moral values set forth by religious teachings?

Would science become the new "religion"?

Would the government be responsible for defining what is moral and good?

Would mankind become an animalistic culture, devoid of concience or remorse, with the only goals being self gratification without regard for others.

I am very interested in hearing the views of others on this topic.

Personaly, I believe the only reason we have made it this far is the belief in a higher power and the prospect of a reward or punishment for our actions.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by deepred]

My answer would be neither.

Human populations would be decimated and the survivors would be feral. Society would cease to exist; the concept of law has its source in the book of Enoch; there would be no government, perhaps the buildings and some symbols of government would exist for a time, but without meaning. they become overgrown with weeds and become the habitation of other wild animals, like yourselves. Each person would be his own government, sounds good at first until your children turn against you, especially when they realize what you did to them.

And don't even think about keeping Science, as everyone knows that the scientific process has its roots in mans search for God. Its some kind of consolation prize.

Eventually someone would realize what happened, return to God and life would immediately improve and grow again.

Great point on science and its roots, many of the great minds that gave birth to science believed the insights they were given were of Devine origin.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by deepred]

reply to post by prototism


As a believer in a creator I have not found any religion that I fully agree with, It seems many have used mans beliefs to further an agenda and induce a type of control that is not always positive. The tele-evangilists that sell God for a $ profit are a fraud.

Originally posted by deepred


Great point on science and its roots, many of the great minds that gave birth to science believed the insights they were given were of Devine origin.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by deepred]

Many of them were also wrong about many things. I think if you are going to compare, you need to show scientists whose discoveries have brought them closer to god, and those who have only been able to move farther. There are plenty of scientists who were "inspired by god" only to complete their experiments and find out that they needed to look a little harder for this god now.

We haven't had any society in a long time that has had God involved. God is often viewed as controlling and those that except or reject that control are respectively religious or athiest. But both are wrong. Society would be better with God.

Originally posted by ghaleon12
We haven't had any society in a long time that has had God involved. God is often viewed as controlling and those that except or reject that control are respectively religious or athiest. But both are wrong. Society would be better with God.

Who's God?

Which God?

Originally posted by Lucifer Rising

Originally posted by ghaleon12
We haven't had any society in a long time that has had God involved. God is often viewed as controlling and those that except or reject that control are respectively religious or athiest. But both are wrong. Society would be better with God.

Who's God?

Which God?

The God that put those chains around your ankles and cast you down to Hell.

There is only One God. The God that is consistent with physics, chemistry, biology and mathematics; and the whole of human learning. The full Integral. The God whose existence can be seen behind the Gravity.

Any and all other gods that have ever been mentioned in history are not the same God this thread must be refering to, but fabrications created by men who wished for there to be another God. They are just poor reflections of the real thing, not real in and of themselves. Only one other fake has even come close to the real thing.

Before you go into a big long thing about what some idiot told you once or what you read in a book. Just remember this. There is a war going on outside and a larger war may soon erupt, how soon, sooner than you think I am sure. War is the proving ground for your so-called gods, so we will all see how many Gods there are once and for all. Just bring your god out to the battle field, so that it can be proven. I'll bring mine.

PS...This is exactly why society is better with God. If He were not here, just about anyone would create gods of wood or words and try and pass them off as real on a desperate humanity.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by bruxfain]

I believe we are all already getting a taste of what it would be like ..

Half man half animal
Half man half computer
Half man half demon (spiritual altering from genetically altering dna)
genetic altering for just about everything ...

I can see what type of future those without God have in mind for us all already ...WHY CANT ANY OF YOU SEE THAT ?

Just because some of them still have a small concience now ..does not mean that they wont become complete reprobates (The bible says they will) .then even their ideas of right and wrong will cease to exist ..
And no one will give a crap about another human being in those times .
(We are just about there now actually) ..so you cant TRUST ANY MAN >.especially not the ones who are Scientifically minded .......
(They ate of that same fruit that Adam and Eve did ) now they are doing just like satan did ...thinking now they can be as Gods ....

Everytime I think about what is in Revelation about those who take the mark ..and the fact that they try to kill themselves etc ..but cannot die ...it crosses my mind that maybe thats because of the experimenting they did on themselves through science made it so they could not die ...and surely what it says in Rev shows how that consequence of doing something like trying to make the flesh live as long as possible ... would not be as pleasurable as the scientists made it out to be ...and will end up in the end make you regret that decision when the flesh is rotting off your bones while you live ..and wish to die but cant ...(trapped in the body ) to suffer in the flesh that much in the end is what they deserve for playing God like they did and genetically altering what GOD created (which he created the body to DIE and the soul to live on ..so what is man doing when altering that NATURAL PROCESS?)...have they ever even considered even the natural consequences for that ? I doubt it .......



PS ..what you scientists are doing is the same thing the fallen angels did (In fact your doing it for them)before the flood ..which was why there was so much CHAOS and wickedness then ..and what has been before will be again ...

[edit on 1-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by bruxfain

Originally posted by Lucifer Rising

Originally posted by ghaleon12
We haven't had any society in a long time that has had God involved. God is often viewed as controlling and those that except or reject that control are respectively religious or athiest. But both are wrong. Society would be better with God.

Who's God?

Which God?

The God that put those chains around your ankles and cast you down to Hell.

There is only One God. The God that is consistent with physics, chemistry, biology and mathematics; and the whole of human learning. The full Integral. The God whose existence can be seen behind the Gravity.

Oh, well that is all so simple then. So you mean the Christian god? Muslim god? Is it the Lutheran or Catholic god? Shia or Sunni?

See, there seems to be millions of people that are a little confused as to what this one god has said and how he should be worshipped.

If there was just the choice between a god or not a god, then you might have a point. Unfortunately, we have sooooo many versions of god to choose from.

Tell me, does your universal god get mad if I rape or kill? How about if I eat meat on Friday during Lent or shave my beard? Does your god think it is a sin to have sex with someone under 18? 16? 15? Does your god have a problem with me stealing anything? What if I say that that god told me it was mine to begin with and I can rightfully take it? What does your god say to that? Does your god feel I should sell my daughter into slavery or offer her as sexual delights to strangers? Does your god say that killing is wrong no matter what, but I should support war? I can do this all day.

Before you go into a big long thing about what some idiot told you once or what you read in a book. Just remember this. There is a war going on outside and a larger war may soon erupt, how soon, sooner than you think I am sure. War is the proving ground for your so-called gods, so we will all see how many Gods there are once and for all. Just bring your god out to the battle field, so that it can be proven. I'll bring mine.

PS...This is exactly why society is better with God. If He were not here, just about anyone would create gods of wood or words and try and pass them off as real on a desperate humanity.

as to the rest of this nonsense... I admit, I have no response. I have no idea what you are even trying to say. I have no long spieal about anything I once read or heard. I have facts and knowledge on my side. You have a fantasy about one simple god. YOUR GOD. And that is the only god that is right. Ok, then everyone should agree about that god right? Tell me your god's rules. Let's see how many people still fully agree with you then.

PS...People do make gods out of wood and words and try to pass them off as real. Do you live somewhere that has only one religion and you have never heard that there are others?

[edit on 1-11-2008 by Lucifer Rising]

reply to post by Lucifer Rising


This thread is about God, not religion. You may be hopelessly trapped inside a book. You should come out, its beautiful.

My God once told me to stay away from Religion, I think you religious types may call it the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.



[edit on 1-11-2008 by bruxfain]

[edit on 1-11-2008 by bruxfain]

Originally posted by bruxfain
reply to post by Lucifer Rising

 

This thread is about God, not religion. You may be hopelessly trapped inside a book. You should come out, its beautiful.

My God once told me to stay away from Religion, I think you religious types may call it the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

But that is the problem. Show me any god that is believed in by more than one household that does not have a religion attatched? You bring god in, and it becomes religion or religions. Until someone can show me a society that believes in a god without religion, I fail to see your point.

PS you are the one that said this god shackled me and sent me to hell. You did not read that in a book from a religion did you?

pps that whole tree thing is from a book from a religion too you know. You should practice some of what you are trying to preach.

Tell me again how I am trapped in religion and books and then quote some more bible stories to me.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by Lucifer Rising]

Originally posted by Lucifer Rising

Originally posted by bruxfain
reply to post by Lucifer Rising

 

This thread is about God, not religion. You may be hopelessly trapped inside a book. You should come out, its beautiful.

My God once told me to stay away from Religion, I think you religious types may call it the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

But that is the problem. Show me any god that is believed in by more than one household that does not have a religion attatched? You bring god in, and it becomes religion or religions. Until someone can show me a society that believes in a god without religion, I fail to see your point.

PS you are the one that said this god shackled me and sent me to hell. You did not read that in a book from a religion did you?

pps that whole tree thing is from a book from a religion too you know. You should practice some of what you are trying to preach.

Tell me again how I am trapped in religion and books and then quote some more bible stories to me.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by Lucifer Rising]

I know you fail to see my point, you probably fail to see a lot of things. Even things that are right in front of your face. Right now you mostly focused on proving something about your religion.

1. The Bible, some of the books in it I've read. I also read Huckleberry Finn. I got them from the library or bookstore. I didn't see clergy there. I also read that no religion wrote the Bible and that these stories preexist your church. But Lucifier is a liar and often takes credit for things he should not.

So, which book of the Bible did your church write?

reply to post by bruxfain


First of all...what religion are you speaking of? I do not remember claiming any religion here. You are right, I get confused easily when people say stupid things, assume, and contradict themselves.

YOU ARE THE ONE USING BIBLE QUOTES TO MAKE YOUR POINT!

I never once promoted any religious book, in fact the opposite.

You on the other hand are trying to prove to me that religion and the associated books are all wrong by......offering stories from the bible.

Do you see what is wrong with that? At all??????

You can also get back to me when you find where I went on about my religion.

Originally posted by Lucifer Rising
reply to post by bruxfain

 

First of all...what religion are you speaking of? I do not remember claiming any religion here. You are right, I get confused easily when people say stupid things, assume, and contradict themselves.

YOU ARE THE ONE USING BIBLE QUOTES TO MAKE YOUR POINT!

I never once promoted any religious book, in fact the opposite.

You on the other hand are trying to prove to me that religion and the associated books are all wrong by......offering stories from the bible.

Do you see what is wrong with that? At all??????

You can also get back to me when you find where I went on about my religion.

What are you talking about, you are a billboard of religious symbolism. Even your name and avatar are promotion of your religion. You instinctively attach your religious beliefs to discussions about God and you are apparently well read in every religion that exists on earth.

You're a total shill for the established religions. Just please quit forcing your narrow, biggoted religions on the rest of us.

This thread is about whether society would be better or worse without God. Its not about which God, a Religious concept, but God.

Sure, I've read the Bible and may read it again. I find it entertaining and thought provoking. But I got it from the library not your church.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by bruxfain]

[edit on 1-11-2008 by bruxfain]

reply to post by bruxfain


LOL, you are cute. I like the name and the avatar. I can do that. Yes, I am well read on religions. That is why I do not subscribe to them.

Seriously now, you are the only one spitting bible quotes at me to make a point while mocking the bible at the same time in an attempt to offend me.

That is an amazing feat of intellectual acrobatics. I have not said one thing to promote one religion. If you are going to define my entire person by my avatar and my name, then lets start breaking down every person on ATS.

Perhaps, unlike you, I understand irony. I enjoy it. I do not subscrive to any religion and I would never use one their books to make my points.


or....you can just tell me what religion it is that I practice and what you base that on.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by Lucifer Rising]

reply to post by Lucifer Rising


I didn't quote any bible verses, I don't even know any. However, I have read Genesis and remember the Tree. I found it very applicable to my own life.

You still haven't answered my question...What books of the Bible did the Church write? I really want to hear your answer.

Well, you said that you don't subscribe to any religion. So, unless you are a liar you don't practice any religion. But you asked me to describe your religion which suggests you do practice a religion, which contradicts your earlier statement. Apparently that would make you prone to telling lies.

I don't know any religions, but I would guess that the religion you practice has something to do with obtaining power for yourself. You fancy yourself to be a rebel who exposes the hypocracy of others, as you're a speciatist at finding fault, thereby obtaining the power you desire. You probably hang around trees peddling secret knowledge and ridicule the concept of God, even to the point of suggesting that there is more than One.

Are you a Satanist?

reply to post by bruxfain


Are you on something? I asked you to tell me what religon I am because YOU CLAIMED I HAVE ONE. I do not, so your answer would invariably be wrong.

You mentioned the tree of life, you also mentioned Lucifer being shackled and sent to hell. You used both of those statements to make your point. Each comes from the same bible that you then claim to mock?

Why are you asking me what books of the bible the church wrote? What church? What are you getting at? I am not here promoting the bible, in case you are slow to catch that.

Originally posted by bruxfain


I don't know any religions, but I would guess that the religion you practice has something to do with obtaining power for yourself. You fancy yourself to be a rebel who exposes the hypocracy of others, as you're a speciatist at finding fault, thereby obtaining the power you desire. You probably hang around trees peddling secret knowledge and ridicule the concept of God, even to the point of suggesting that there is more than One.

Are you a Satanist?

I am guessing you are an ignorant person who's life is run more by assumptions than curiosity. Do you know what happens when faced with a puzzle, you imagine the answer instead of deducing it?

You say incredibly inaccurate and stupid things.

Assume and judge mall you like based on my avatar and screen name that I chose to use right now on ATS. That truly shows the deepness of your intellect.

Deny Ignorance

Originally posted by Lucifer Rising
reply to post by bruxfain

 

Are you on something? I asked you to tell me what religon I am because YOU CLAIMED I HAVE ONE. I do not, so your answer would invariably be wrong.

You mentioned the tree of life, you also mentioned Lucifer being shackled and sent to hell. You used both of those statements to make your point. Each comes from the same bible that you then claim to mock?

Why are you asking me what books of the bible the church wrote? What church? What are you getting at? I am not here promoting the bible, in case you are slow to catch that.

So what are you promoting? In your first post of the thread you wanted to know something about....

Which God?

Up until you arrived everyone assumed that we where refering to whomever it is the individual calls God. You decided to turn it into a thread discussing the multitudes of Gods you claim to exist and be an expert on.

You also kept saying that Religions or the Church wrote the Bible. I asked a simple question...which books of the Bible did the Catholic Church write?

I asked because you are very well read on the subject of religion. I am slow catching on to things.

When you said which God, I assumed, like I always do, that you wanted to engage in a detailed discussion about your religion, now I know you don't have one.

I assumed that you were a true believer of some religion, as you are named after a character in religious books. People usually don't name themselves after things they don't subscribe to. You sure are tricky little thing.

reply to post by bruxfain


I said which god because it was stated that the world would be a better place if we all had him. I was simply asking which god would make this world a better place if we all knew? See if you just meant that if everyone knew a god, then well you have holy wars. Not all gods get along well with each other. If you meant one particular god, then please, tell us which one god and his set of rules and beliefs would benefit us all to follow.

I was simply asking a question, you were the one to run off on assumptions and promotions of ideas and bring up things you read in books.

I just asked a question.