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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 01:01 PM
reply to post by Hx3_1963

You know with the state of the economy right now, I can not believe that people like moddy's credit worthiness business is still going

He should be bankrupted by now.

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 01:14 PM
reply to post by marg6043
If they keep downgrading and dealing death blows to businesses and governments, they'll soon have no one left to pay their fee's...

Treasurys mixed, Fed minutes show debate over amount to buy

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Treasurys remained mixed Wednesday, with yields on longer-dated debt falling, after minutes from the Federal Reserve's policy-making committee meeting indicated most debate involved how much in Treasurys to buy in their unexpected announcement last month to buy U.S. debt from the market. Ten-year note yields fell 3 basis points to 2.87%. Bond strategists had said they were interested in why the Fed opted to surprise markets after the March 18 meeting by saying, months before most expected, it would buy $300 billion in Treasurys in the next six months. The Fed noted a worsening economic outlook forcing their hand.

GM must restructure, bankruptcy or not: executive

GM's European sites under the gun

Analyst tells big banks to make money, or else

[edit on 4/8/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 01:19 PM

Originally posted by Hx3_1963
reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity
No Star 4 U

Yer probably right, being a stock market guru and all, but, I think it kinda sucks...

Why would I bother acquiring a failing company, just to get shot down by shareholders...

Kinda like Dow's recent deal with R&H...lose either way, once ya announce it...

Take a hit fer re-nigin' or take a hit for completing it...

Don't make much sense to me...of course years from now it might workout, but, in this market...

[edit on 4/8/2009 by Hx3_1963]

The people doing these deals feel like it will add shareholder value in the long run or they wouldn't do them. They cannot control the whims of the market from day to day. Overreaction to everything is the norm. These overreactions mean great opportunities for those who invest with a longer term frame of mind. There will be many buy and hold legends made out of this current economic mess.

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 01:23 PM

Erin Burn-it talking about burning excess old housing in the depression...

Now...without saying it...didn't she just about validate our views on this conflagration?

And in a GM, burn the houses related story...

U.S., U.K. mull cash-for-clunkers programs many old houses ya can't sell...burn ' many old cars slowing new car sales...burn 'em...burn the whole freakin' world down...that'll spark demand...


Bill Lets Obama Turn Off the Internet

[edit on 4/8/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 01:40 PM
So let me see if I understand correctly.

Someone is not paying their mortage. The bank kick them out. The bank try to resale the house. They can't sell it. They bulldoze it. Then the property is owned by the bank?

How much time does it takes on average from ``the bank try to resale the house`` to ``bulldoze it``... 6 months? A year? It depends on the house?

Why don't they drop the price by 60% instead?

[edit on 8-4-2009 by Vitchilo]

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 01:54 PM
reply to post by Vitchilo

Someone is not paying their mortage. The bank kick them out. The bank try to resale the house. They can't sell it. They bulldoze it. Then the property is owned by the bank?

The maintainability drain of the house would probably be the biggest deciding factor after failing to sell it...

They'd probably notify the local government of releasing the mortgage to the last holder...who would then "own" it...

Depending on the time of vacancy and condition of the house, the last noted owner would then be liable for taxes, upkeep and/or demolition of the house, if not turned over the the local land bank???

Does this sound right anyone???

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 01:56 PM
reply to post by Hx3_1963

Wait, that means that now the last home owner had the right to sue for retributions
to the state for suffering or to the bank for misrepresentation.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by marg6043]

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 02:01 PM
reply to post by marg6043
Good question...

I have no idea what "can of worms" something like that would would open...

All I know is I've read a couple of articles that have touched on that scenario...

Mortgage holders, who thought they lost their home, only to find out at a later date, from their local government, that the bank had relented and now they were responsible for all bills, fees and charges related to said house...

Nice huh?

FTSE 100 3,925.52 11:35AM ET Down 5.00 (0.13%)
CAC 40 2,921.06 12:11PM ET Up 18.75 (0.65%)
DAX 4,357.92 11:45AM ET Up 35.42 (0.82%)

Fed sees economy sliding further

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Federal Reserve policy-makers agreed at their March 17-18 meeting that "substantial additional purchases" of a range of longer-term assets was appropriate to deal with a steep drop in economic activity across all sectors, minutes of the meeting showed on Wednesday.

"Credit conditions remained very tight, and financial markets remained fragile and unsettled, with pressures on financial institutions generally intensifying this year," the central bank said in the minutes. "Overall, participants expressed concern about downside risks to an outlook for activity that was already weak."

The Fed said staff for the Federal Open Market Committee lowered projections for U.S. real gross domestic product in the second half of 2009 and 2010, but the minutes did not offer any revised figures.

Reflecting steep job losses across nearly all sectors and contracting industrial production, the Fed said the revisions showed real GDP flattening out gradually over the second half of 2009 and then expanding "slowly next year as the stresses in financial markets ease, the effects of fiscal stimulus take hold, inventory adjustments are worked through and the correction in housing activity comes to an end."

At the conclusion of the March 17-18 meeting, the Fed announced plans to buy up to $300 billion of longer-term U.S. Treasury securities and an additional $850 billion of agency mortgage debt to ease a deepening U.S. recession.

California's anti-tax crusaders talk revolt

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Taking inspiration from a landmark 1970s tax revolt, a determined group of activists say the moment is right for another voter uprising in California, where recession-battered residents have been hit with the highest income and sales tax rates in the nation.

And like Proposition 13, the 1978 ballot measure that transformed the state's political landscape and ignited tax-reform movements nationwide, they see the next backlash coming not from either major political party, but from the people.

If the anti-tax crusaders can galvanize voter discontent, they hope to roll back the latest tax hikes, impose permanent, iron-clad spending caps on Sacramento lawmakers and make the issue central in the 2010 gubernatorial election.

"There's a lot of latent anger boiling to the surface out there," said Jon Coupal, president of the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association, a group named after the California anti-tax crusader who spearheaded Prop 13.

An angry mob of thousands converged on an Orange County parking lot in southern California on a recent Saturday morning for an anti-tax protest, stunning even the organizers with the size of the turnout. It was just one in a series of public demonstrations that have cropped up around the state.
More at Link...

[edit on 4/8/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 03:11 PM
I'm speechless...

Recession slows some U.S. state income tax refunds

CA Foreclosures About to Soar

The headlines in the near future will read:

Circa April 12th - “March Foreclosures Drop Sharply but Foreclosure Starts at Record Highs”

Circa May 12th - “April Foreclosures Surge 200% and Foreclosure Starts Remain at Record Highs”

Two months from now, the foreclosure crisis will be top of the news once again catching everyone off guard because of the past six months ‘intervention’. Thanks Washington.
More at Link...

Banks aren't reselling many foreclosed homes

Regulators may not want TARP money back soon

Mayor Bloomberg says 7,000 city employees will be laid off; Albany hasn't helped city budget enough

Rep. McCotter: Don't Let AIG-Backed Bondholders Profit From GM Bankruptcy


Barney Frank Declares War On Moody's

This one is looney tunes prime time material. Populist champion for the people, Barney Frank who earlier started war on mark-to-market and republicans, has added a new front to his offensive: Moody's rating agency. The reason: Frank's displeasure with the possibility that Moody's will downgrade America's municipalities as this "action will raise interest rates on cities and towns making it more expensive to borrow funds for infrastructure developments." As a result Frank threatens to hold a hearing in May to explore "the unfair treatment of full faith and credit general obligation bonds."
More at Link...

Intentionally Default? Maybe. Read On.

If you have any qualms about the morality of intentionally defaulting on your mortgage - not because you can't pay, but because the value of your house has declined to less than you owe, listen up:

“I can make the payments. That’s not the issue. It’s a business decision,” Watts said. “I tried to work with the lender. The lender didn’t help. They said, go ahead, do a short sale. It’s strictly business.”

Who is this guy? He is not Joe. K. Random.

Watts, the chief prognosticator for the Orange County Association of Realtors, once was one of local real estate’s biggest boosters. Where others saw a market slump, Watts kept seeing price gains.

Got it?


It's strictly business folks.

The banks, Realtors and mortgage brokers didn't pump real estate, stoking the fires of starry-eyed profits, for your benefit. It was not so your children would have a nice place to grow up. It was not so you and your wife, husband or significant other would have a great place to live.


It was strictly business.

That's right. Every nickel of profit that those Realtors, Banksters and Brokesters could manage to connive out of your pocketbook, they did. They issued rosy predictions like this:

In 2006, Watts forecast a 15% price jump. Instead, sales dropped 28% and prices rose a meager 2.4%.
In 2007, Watts predicted that local house prices would increase 7%. Following the subprime mortgage meltdown, and prices ended the year down 10%.
In 2008, he thought gains of 3-5% were conceivable for houses. By year’s end, the whole economy had tanked, and Watts had issued an apology. Home prices fell 30%.
Yeah, he apologized, but you lost money.

This is not one random guy either.

Google him.

Look, I understand "it's just business."

I'm a capitalist pig and I'm proud of it.
Visit Link for more...

Consolidation Pops Market?

A *COP* Shows Up?

[edit on 4/8/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 06:07 PM

Buffett's Berkshire Loses Top Level Credit Rating from Moody's...did we ever think even he would go un-scathed?

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 06:09 PM
Jesus Balls...These people are IDIOTS:

Fed Saw Downside Risks Predominating at March Meeting (Update2)

The outlook prompted the Federal Open Market Committee in a unanimous vote to boost its open-market purchases of bonds by $1.15 trillion, continuing its unprecedented increase in money supplied to the economy. The U.S. central bank has used its own balance sheet to provide financing for markets in commercial paper, asset-backed securities and mortgage bonds, markets it deems critical for financial stability and economic recovery.

From $300 billion to $1.15 TRILLION in monetized debt! If there are any people left out there that think inflationary depression isn't in the books, Take a look at these actions. They are HISTORICALLY inflationary.

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 06:21 PM
So any bets on when it's gonna collapse again? There was a crisis starting in August 07 lasting to March 08 with Bear Stern. Then people thought it was over.

Then it collapsed again in september 08... until March 08... when there was a 25% rally.

So when will it collapse again? June? August? September? Next year?

Also I don't understand how banks shares can go up when everything else is going to hell... HOW THE HELL will people pay their loans? And the derivatives??? Banks shares of the 5 biggest banks should be at 0$.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by Vitchilo]

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 06:23 PM
reply to post by Vitchilo

I'm not much of a gambler,more of a calculated risk-taker but if I have to venture a "guess",I'd say by the end of this year.

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 06:25 PM
reply to post by irishchic

I placing my chips on the middle of the summer. When Gas prices and other energy costs shoot up beyond affordability. The another wave of defaults will begin and by this time the commercial real estate market will have started to crumble.

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 06:47 PM
Speaking of amazing things happening...I just saw a commercial during Lou Dobbs where all of the credit card companies have joined together to
"tailor" your payments to keep you from getting a bad credit rating.

They are lowering the required monthly amount you pay without reporting it to the credit bureaus.

Wonder how bad this is getting? Never seen this in my 40 something years on this rock.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by TH3ON3]

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 07:04 PM

Originally posted by TH3ON3
Speaking of amazing things happening...I just saw a commercial during Lou Dobbs where all of the credit card companies have joined together to
"tailor" your payments to keep you from getting a bad credit rating.

They are lowering the required monthly amount you pay without reporting it to the credit bureaus.

Wonder how bad this is getting? Never seen this in my 40 something years on this rock.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by TH3ON3]

I keep expecting them to fold from mass default. I have had no late payments or carry a balance for too long. Notice last post. It would appear they are encouraging card holders to have a low negative balance to limit losses.

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 07:20 PM
Yet another serious OH CHIT in the works:

Investment Loss Hits Public Sector Pensions.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by irishchic]

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 07:24 PM
reply to post by projectvxn

I'll agree with vxn here, this summer has been touted as the possible "Summer of Rage" by many economists, that I trust, and they tend to be right most of the time.

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 07:28 PM

Roubini Says Takeovers of Banks Helped to Worsen Financial Market Crisis

April 8 (Bloomberg) -- Bank takeovers worsened the financial crisis by making firms that were already too big even bigger, said Nouriel Roubini, the New York University professor who predicted the financial crisis.

“The institutions are insolvent,” Roubini said in a Bloomberg Radio interview. “You have to take them over and you have to split them up into three or four national banks, rather than having a humongous monster that is too big to fail.”

JPMorgan Chase & Co. agreed to buy Bear Stearns Cos. in March 2008, with help from the Federal Reserve, while Bank of America Corp. purchased Merrill Lynch & Co. Wells Fargo & Co. took control of Wachovia Corp. and PNC Financial Services Group Inc. got National City Corp.

Banks around the world have reported $1.29 trillion in credit losses tied to the housing market collapse since 2007. The deficits, which spurred the first simultaneous recessions in the U.S., Europe and Japan since World War II, pushed the American government to pledge $12.8 trillion to stabilize the banking system and revive economic growth. That figure amounts to $42,105 for every man, woman and child in the country.

The Standard & Poor’s 500 Index, which tumbled 38 percent in 2008, has rallied 22 percent after sinking to a 12-year low on March 9. Roubini said in a Bloomberg interview that day that the S&P 500 is likely to drop to 600 or lower this year as the global recession intensifies.

posted on Apr, 8 2009 @ 07:36 PM
reply to post by Hx3_1963

I am so happy to see that most of these sources have stopped saying that everything is getting better. Finally people will realize just a tad, how bad things are.

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