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The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

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posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 04:15 PM

401(k) Plans Need Fixes, Advocates Tell Lawmakers (Update1)

March 16 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. lawmakers should reform retirement plans after 401(k) and Individual Retirement Accounts lost more than $2 trillion in value since October 2007, a group of consumer and labor groups said.

The new consumer-labor group, “Retirement USA,” backed by the Pension Rights Center, the Service Employees International Union and the Economic Policy Institute, said the flagging economy has highlighted the inadequacies of 401(k) plans and increased the need for alternatives such as government-managed funds run with professional oversight.

Retirement account balances plummeted over the past year, as the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index declined 38 percent. The average 401(k) balance fell to $50,200 in 2008 from $69,200 the previous year, according to a January study by Fidelity Investments.

“We may not be able to help the people hurting right now, but we should set up something for the future that will make people more secure,” said Alicia Munnell, director of the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College. “It’s been shown clearly that individuals make a lot of mistakes.”

“America’s promise of a secure retirement is central to our nation’s ideals,” Karen Ferguson, director of the Pension Rights Center, said in Washington March 10. “But for too many Americans, that promise is unfulfilled. We need a new system.”

Retail REITs Have Further to Fall as Stores Struggle (Update1)

March 16 (Bloomberg) -- There’s little relief in store for investors in U.S. shopping center and mall landlords even after the shares plummeted 80 percent from their February 2007 highs.

“REITs are cheap but they’re going to continue to be cheap,” said Marc Halle, managing director of Prudential Real Estate Investors in Parsippany, New Jersey, whose firm manages about $32.5 billion in real estate assets. “We’re going to see increased corporate bankruptcies and continued unemployment for the next few months.”

U.S. mall owners are coming off their worst-ever year of stock market losses as consumers cut spending and retailers shut stores. Vacancies at malls and shopping centers approached 10- year highs in the fourth quarter and will rise further, according to New York property research firm Reis Inc. More than 200,000 store closures are projected for this year by Howard Davidowitz, chairman of New York-based retail consulting and investment banking firm Davidowitz & Associates Inc.

“Thousands of shopping centers will close,” Davidowitz said in an interview. “It’s a debacle.”
Sorry to inflict more bad news, but, knowledge is move yer stuff somewhere safer than that stuff...

Corporate meltdown leaves renters in limbo

[edit on 3/16/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 04:21 PM
And now they're mad because of "bonuses".

Tsk, tsk, tsk...

The big game has turned into the three matchboxes cheat

springs fell out from
the mattress
and my bottle’s empty

heavy is depression
overwhelming me

I had no time to turn about
when toothless greyhound
wobbled by the
grinding site
sat right into spittle
chewing corn cob;
news spread fast:
Burgundy is nearing
and Scandinavia
is just about

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 04:27 PM
reply to post by Hx3_1963

I have an even better idea. How bout take the amount of money that you put into your 401k and I don't know put it in a interest bearing savings account? How bout instead of asking mommy government to take care of us, we teach people how to take care of themselves?

I know it makes to much sense.

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 04:29 PM
reply to post by Hastobemoretolife

You can't control money without being controlled

When they curb out bonuses, everything will be fine

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 04:32 PM

Fed's Bernanke sees recession ending 'this year'[F2A569DE-DEE0-4943-B8DB-DCD72D3065F7]#comment1840919

The beginning of ... depression

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 04:33 PM
reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
Star 4 U!
I agree...

Problem is the finanical advisors those people have...

...have I got program for you...and it's only $$$$ for ??? and $$$...ect

I think they ought to teach some better kind of economics class in these kids coming out have some kind of idea how all this gaming works...

People have no idea how to manage money...spend sure...

NZSE 50 2,536.51 5:26PM ET -7.83 (-0.31%)

a lower start in asian markets it appears...

Gold $927.72

[edit on 3/16/2009 by Hx3_1963]

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 04:58 PM
reply to post by Hx3_1963

I think economics should be a class just like Math, Science, English, etc. It should be one of those courses that should be a staple class.

The spend and borrow economy that we have is unsustainable.

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 05:08 PM

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by Hx3_1963

I think economics should be a class just like Math, Science, English, etc. It should be one of those courses that should be a staple class.

The spend and borrow economy that we have is unsustainable.

Spend and borrow economy (consumers economy) is based not on "economical " but on "psychological substratum" - the creation of habits.

Even being involved into the markets, as what we can see nowadays, is habitual, conditioned behavior. It is totally psychological and Obama's promise of strict bonus politics is psychological measure...

Think about it

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 05:26 PM
reply to post by Hx3_1963

No to worry everything is going to be peachy, we are already out of the depression, the new president of the US say so, Mr. Bernanke.

Now for those that has not seen this news yet.

This is a thread by questioningall,

Geithner to Give Federal Reserve (Private Bank) Complete Control Over Economic Regulations'

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 05:33 PM
reply to post by marg6043

Hello totalitarian state. Goodbye personal freedom.

The Federal Reserve pisses me off. It's obviously a scam and we can't do anything to get rid of it.

I wish I had the skills to *not gonna elaborate* I would remove it from its foundations.

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 05:46 PM
reply to post by marg6043

We found that one this morning too. It isn't Geithner thats giving them the authority it's Obama. The WSJ link has the original story that came out of the pre-G20 meeting they all had. This is the "save the day" plan they have come up with.

Will go back a few pages and find the ya go

The Obama administration, moving with increasing speed, has inked the main contours of its plan to revamp financial-market oversight -- changes that will ripple through the economy, affecting everything from the operations of international banks to consumer protection.

The principles include giving the Federal Reserve new powers that include authority to monitor and address broad risks across the economy, say people familiar with the matter. The proposals are expected to include tougher capital requirements for big banks and authority for regulators to take over a large financial firm that is failing.
"We want to accelerate the pace of change on the reform agenda," Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said in an interview after a meeting of the Group of 20 finance ministers and central bankers over the weekend. Mr. Geithner was pressed for action on the regulatory front at the meeting, held just outside London. The administration's goal is to unveil its proposals before G-20 heads of state meet April 2, to wrest leadership of the thorny topic.

President Barack Obama has pitched a regulatory overhaul as a way to help forestall another financial crisis in the future. Many Democrats and some Republicans blame lax, misdirected or weak oversight in part for precipitating the current one.

[edit on 16-3-2009 by xoxo stacie]

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 05:47 PM
reply to post by Tentickles

They are an illegal institution and is not reasons constitutionally for it to even exist.

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 05:50 PM
reply to post by xoxo stacie

Thanks, I imagine that it has to be the president to be doing the giving, its very interesting that the one of the reasons that the first bail out was taken so negatively by the American people was because one of the stipulations on the bail out bill was giving the Fed sweeping powers.

America said hell not.

But alas there comes Americas last hope to do the honors and this time it will not be as much opposition.

This only tells the agendas that are going on behind the tax payer and the American people.

Perhaps Bush didn't gave a darn about the constitution but Obama seems to be ignoring it altogether.

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 05:50 PM
I posted my one word feelings on that thread already: FUBAR

US to buy SBA Securities:

WHERE is all the MONEY coming from??? I have seen the charts,it isn't there and I can't believe they will continue to "print?"

[edit on 16-3-2009 by irishchic]

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 06:06 PM
reply to post by irishchic

Well obviously the fed is the one that has been calling the shots on the treasury already, that is where the money is coming from to protect the banks cartels behind the fed so they don't lose anymore of their stolen wealth.

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 06:16 PM
They are moving quickly to utilize the electronic era and trying to create a pyramidal network, with the "highest" node through which all electronic transactions will have to go (even personal).

But, the nature of network is not like this. It will never work. Nodes in network are communicating directly, on the horizontal basis. This is going to be a big fight, I anticipate.

They haven't opened their cards yet, but we can see through the fog of war

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 06:36 PM
This text is one year old. I just found it, while looking for some hard evidence for my poetical anticipation.

Our financial overseers will create a world central bank in the next few years. Growing higher consciousness in the world will enable it to become a reality. This bank will have a mandate to monitor, regulate, and maintain global currency, credit, and debt issuance. It will ensure that growth of these activities roughly matches global economic output. It will come about as the chaos and inadequacies engendered in our present monetary system become evident to everyone and a world central bank seen as the best solution.

And look at this! Incredible...

Individuals and groups in financial markets everywhere, lacking inner fulfillment, have demonstrated inordinate greed resulting in reckless financial games and gambling – are bringing the financial system to its knees.

Is he really an idealist, or just pretending...

Such mismanagement in the financial system, I believe, will require the new world central bank to disallow banks everywhere from continuing in unfettered debt creation and speculative excesses.

And his Highness the Central Banker will be an honest man

The only real answer to such economic threats is higher global consciousness.

Aha, beware of "higher" consciousness

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 07:04 PM
reply to post by marg6043

You must stay up and worry all night long. Take a breath and figure out how a scholar would fix it. Then let us know.

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 07:09 PM
reply to post by Hx3_1963

Give me a break. The majority of plans have the company match what people put in. So if the market is down 45% from its highs then the 401k participants have only lost what was given to them for free. They also have several fixed income type investments. If they don't have any choices then they are usually in a fund baalnced between stocks nad bonds.

If they are young there could be no better time to start dollar costing averaging. If they are old they should have some fixed income or understand the risks involved with being more heavily in stocks. Odds are though, that fixed income investments won't provide what folks need in retirement anyways as they do not keep up with inflation. Fixed income investors find they either need to lower there standard of living each year or start spending principal. There is no coming back with fixed income. After all, stocks are the only asset class that brings any real return over inflation over the long term.

I know you are going to say Gold, but you must realize that gold is trading at the same price that it was 27 years ago. Prices have tripled since then. There has never been a 27 year period where stocks returned less than 5-6% per year on average. Most periods were far above this. Someone who is 40 years old, has on average about 50 years to go before they will be done spending money. A 40 year old who had a decent balance in 1929 and kept with the regular 401k contribution into stocks, reinvested their dividends, retired at age 65 pretty well off in comparison to their past earnings.

It is easy to use this snapshot in time to say everyone is an idiot for owning stocks, but remember this is just a snapshot of time and times change and those who stick with it have always been rewarded. You need to be an owner and not a loaner. This is an amazing opportunity for anyone with more than a decade away from retirement. Put it away and comeback in a few years, you will be amazed.

Every 401K plan has fixed income investments available. They all also come with some form of planning advice. No reason to be knocking 401k plans or even those who suggest stocks over bonds.

And wahts the crapabout the goverment coming in and managing the 401k's for them? Aren't you folks against goverment intervention? Or is it only when it suits your outrage?

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 07:09 PM
Double post

[edit on 16-3-2009 by disgustedbyhumanity]

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