The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

A good morning to you folks. I won't be watching the markets today, I will be at the pub celebrating my heritage with a long day of drinking, dancing, drinking and probably, more drinking.

But on the markets, I have to wonder. The CDS payments and various other contracts that are now coming to light (unclassified as to where the money went, who got it, how much, how much more) etc. if this does not mean the worst of the worst is over. Obviously there are some major concerns left in the market.

Unemployment for one is still sky rocketing. The banks might be done shelling out contract payments to keep other banks afloat due to "poor investments in toxic assets" but they still are not lending as they once did. Further more, foreclosures continue to come in, credit card defaults are historic highs, and no end in sight for unemployment. The concern I am seeing now is that great, we stabilized the banks, but the storms already begun, and if the fall of these institutions where defaults on loans --- continued unemployment will only lead to another round of banking woes.

Personally, I do not see this ending any time soon. No magic fix where we wake up and come to realization that it's over at last. I would expect this deflationary spiral to continue, and to see further massive unemployment numbers, regardless if the banks are healthy or not (which I refuse to believe they are).

But we could all use a break from such morose discussions.

Oh Boy, more bad news on Treasuries

Treasurys Are 'Disaster Waiting to Happen': Dr. Doom

The Federal Reserve has no option but to start buying Treasurys as the government's needs for financing are huge, but the government bond market is a disaster in the making, Marc Faber, editor and publisher of The Gloom, Boom & Doom Report, told CNBC.

Federal Reserve policymakers start a two-day meeting on Tuesday, weighing options on how to spur lending to help cash-strapped consumers kickstart the economy.

Economists expect them to leave rates at zero and look to other ways of boosting liquidity, such as buying government bonds – a measure which has already been taken by the Bank of England.


"Well I think other central banks have done it already around the world but basically what it amounts to is money printing and in fact I don't think that it will help the bond market at all in the long run," Faber told CNBC's Martin Soong.

The yield on the 30-year Treasurys touched a low of 2.51 percent last year in December but now it is back up at 3.77 percent, he said.

"Yields have already backed up pretty substantially and I tell you, I think the US government bond market is a disaster waiting to happen for the simple reason that the requirements of the government to cover its fiscal deficit will be very, very high," Faber said.

"The Federal Reserve will have to buy Treasurys, otherwise yields will go up substantially," he said, adding that as their reserves were dwindling, foreign investors were likely to scale down their purchases.


But there will be a time when the Federal Reserve will have to increase interest rates to fight inflation, and it will be reluctant to do so because the cost of servicing government debt will rise substantially.

"So we'll go into high inflation rates one day," Faber said.

The stock market is likely to continue its bounce at least for a while, but the outlook is bleak, he added.

"I think we may still have a rally (in the S&P) until about the end of April and probably then a total collapse in the second half of the year sometimes, when it becomes clear that the economy is a total disaster," Faber said.

Emphasis mine

More money for the auto companies...
Task Force Open to Auto Aid, Avoiding Bankruptcy, Rattner Says

The Obama administration is “open minded” about giving General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC more aid and will use “all the resources” of the federal government to avoid bankruptcy for the automakers, said Steven Rattner, chief adviser to the U.S. Treasury’s autos task force.

U.S. auto suppliers may get some aid, and the task force plans to meet a March 31 deadline for assessing GM and Chrysler viability, Rattner said yesterday in an interview. “We are open minded about committing additional resources to ensuring a viable domestic car industry,” he said.

“We will bring all the resources of the government to bear on these various stakeholders and try to reach a fair compromise, a set of compromises,” Rattner said. “Bankruptcy is not our goal nor a desirable outcome.”

More at link

Hope you aren't short on these stocks!

[edit on 3/17/09 by redhatty]

S&P 500 +0.10 754.10 3/17 8:32am
Fair Value 750.60 3/16 10:43pm
Difference* +3.50

NASDAQ +2.50 1154.75 3/17 8:31am
Fair Value 1146.28 3/16 10:43pm
Difference* +8.47

Dow Jones -14.00 7169.00 3/17 8:30am
===
FTSE 100 3,818.39 8:28AM ET -45.60 (-1.18%)
CAC 40 2,761.83 8:43AM ET -29.83 (-1.07%)
DAX 3,980.69 8:28AM ET -63.85 (-1.58%)
===
Gold $915.22

Good morning my friend, hope you had a good regeneration time :-)

Today's Ticker

Heckle The Hackles

Sheesh, you'd think that my tax proposal was akin to running outside my house naked - in front of the kindergarten school bus.

Where do some people get their concept of what we should be doing in this country from? The "burn it all down and let God sort it out" mentality is, to be rather blunt, disgusting.

I have been steadfast and remain so in wanting to see a lot of people go directly to prison. Those folks at AIG don't deserve bonuses - they deserve to be violated - repeatedly. I echo Grassley's comments that the honorable thing is for these bankers to commit Seppuku - and do it on National Television so we all have proof that they didn't get into the G-IVs and head to some Caribbean island, leaving some look-alike flunky to do the deed for them (and no, I wouldn't put that past some of them, especially the clown-car brigade that includes former Secretary Paulson)

I have been steadfast in my support of The Fair Tax; it is the only way we will ever get rid of the "game the system" mentality that permeates K Street and the rest of Washington DC. But I have no particular belief that we're going to be seeing it tomorrow, as it would unemploy most of K Street and make "Ways and Means" just another committee within the US House.

Everyone (with the exception of Merideth Whitney) seems to think that the solution to this mess is to "restart securitization" - that is, the "shadow banking system."

To be blunt, that's not going to work.

The securitization business relied on suckers. It relied on people who would buy something that was so complex it was impossible to read the underlying documentation before purchase.

Not difficult, impossible.

This means that such a purchase was inherently a "trust me" acquisition and that is fundamentally unsound.

This means that we must stop relying on "creating as much credit as possible"; irrespective of the fact that we have reached the point where such charades are unsustainable, we are also at the "you can't get there from here" point as well in terms of pushing this credit into the marketplace even if it could be repaid, which it can't.

This means that we must shift from an economy that is funded on borrowing to one that is funded on capital formation. THAT in turn means we must increase saving as that is ultimately where capital formation comes from. The adjustment is going to be excruciating in the economy and it cannot be avoided; the day of being able to use your home as an ATM is in fact over - not just for a while, but forever.

The capital gains tax proposal is intended to provide incentives for doing other than borrowing as a means of funding.

Believe it or not, there are reservoirs of capital out there. I have some, and so do others. We will come out to play with the proper incentives - MCSNet "the Internet company" got its leg up literally as a consequence of another firm's business failure that happened at an auspicious time and gave me the opportunity to acquire hardware at a very nice price.

I want to incent people to take risks in capital formation. While it seems suicidal to do so into the maw of a deep recession in point of fact this is exactly when fortunes are made. The survivors who come out of an economic recession (or Depression) with a new idea and manage to capitalize on the asset fire sales are precisely how we form the base necessary for economic recovery.

Yes, I want to punish the guilty - severely so.

But this does not mean punishing the innocent, nor does it mean suppressing the entrepreneurial animal spirits.

Doing either of those things can turn what is an economic nightmare into something out of Mad Max, and if I get to choose, I'll take a pass on that latter option.

and some good news, hope some of these buildings are in New Orleans - they are still in desperate need of housing units

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - Boosted by an 82% increase in construction of apartment buildings, U.S. housing starts surged 22% in February to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 583,000, the Commerce Department estimated Tuesday. It was the first increase in eight months. Construction of new housing units had plunged 38% in the previous three months before February's unexpected jump. Economists had forecast a further drop to 456,000, despite an expected surge in multifamily construction. Building permits, which are less volatile than the starts data, rose 3% in February to a 547,000 annual rate. Permits for single-family units rose 11% to a 373,000 rate, the largest percentage gain in 18 years

&print=true&dist=printMidSection]Source

[edit on 3/17/09 by redhatty]

reply to post by Rockpuck


Have a great time!!!!! my friend my husband will be celebrating sometime today also.

His ancestors were from Liverpool England but he have one ancestor that got links to Ireland. even when is just a here say his last name is very much Irish. and he takes advantage of that.

[edit on 17-3-2009 by marg6043]

and yet another Ticker this am

PPI - More Deflation?

The PPI report today was good for a second straight month showing deflationary pressures in the manufacturing sector.

While the headline PPI came in 0.1% positive, the ugly was in the intermediate goods and crude goods numbers, both of which declined (by 0.9% and 4.5%, respectively.)

The crude goods number in particularly is rapidly decreasing, and this is not oil. It was down 2.9% in January and now, at 4.5% down, appears to be accelerating toward the floor at Warp 9.

Here's the ugly folks - this is not being translated into prices on the shelf. That is, manufacturers are maintaining prices into the economic malaise in a desperate attempt to hold profit margins (and squeeze consumers.)

Not good.

The only actual good news was the concurrent housing start number, up 22% from January. This is somewhat stupid as a statistic since few people start building anything in January due to the weather, but the fact remains that this is a significant jump. Most of the new start gains are multifamily - apartments and condos.

Condos?

Oh, and its focused in the Northeast.

Condos in New York?

I wish those who are building these things the best of luck. After all, its St. Paddy's Day (and boy, are they going to need the Luck Of The Irish on this one!)

Were I in their shoes I'd be hitting that Irish Whiskey about now, especially given the continued focus on attempting to borrow our way to prosperity - when we're already too far in the debt hole.

Something about trying to fix a drunk with a bottle of whiskey comes to mind..... but heh, its St. Paddy's Day - time to forget rationality and head to the bar!

(Just kidding. I think.)

reply to post by redhatty


U.S. credit card defaults rise to 20 year-high

Thanks for bringing this topic, today this is going to be one of the biggest topics been discussed in the news and in CBNC.

The news about consumer credit defaults are staggering.

They news now are saying that is worst that was has been reported.

With all the unemployment going on people actually are balancing their budgets on their credit cards, now the banks are lowering the credit lines and the people that are using them to meet their monthly budgets will suffer the most.

This will also create a domino effect the already credit strapped consumer.


And the economy will keep sliding down to a faster pace, all the hopes and good news about the markets last week is turning into caca now with all the bad news coming from the consumer side of the street

But hey my friends didn't we talk about all that? like I say we should e-mail all those morons in Washington this thread so they can learn something from the people in ATS.

reply to post by redhatty
Happy St Paddys Day!!!

You just beat me to the Housing Report!

Just what we needed...more houses with headlines like these...
(prior posts)
Housing Starts in U.S. Probably Slumped to Record as Foreclosures Climbed

Ackman Seeks General Growth Seat, Expects Bankruptcy (Update2)

...and what exactly is this supposed to imply???

Justice Thomas Says Americans Self-Indulgent, Don't Sacrifice
www.foxnews.com...

LEXINGTON, Va -- Americans today are self-indulgent and don't make the sacrifices that their parents and grandparents did, and the nation's leaders don't ask people to act for the higher good, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas said Monday at a Virginia college in a rare public speech.

"Our country and our principles are more important than our individual wants," Thomas told close to 400 people who greeted him with a standing ovation at Washington and Lee University, a Shenandoah Valley liberal arts school.

He quoted President Kennedy's famous, "Ask not what your country can do for you" speech, but said Americans today are more likely to say, "Ask not what you can do for yourselves or your country but what your country can do for you."

...so what...we give till we're a worthless pile of mush laying in a gutter???

reply to post by redhatty


Yes the housing numbers are up, but who is buying, here in my neck of the woods is a lot of housing building but the problems is that all the building and the houses are still empty.

So yes they are building homes but not body is living in them at least in my neck of the woods.

And the houses for sale are very high.

Think Nano

CNT Threads Can Transmit Radio Signals and Could Replace Copper Wires

deviceace.com...

“It transmitted almost as well as the copper did, but at about one ten-thousandth of the weight. That was a very pleasant surprise, how easy it was to do. The hardest thing is to manipulate them. They float on ambient air” said Mast.

The secret of the "dark matter" is beginning to unfold

According to Schulz, the reason behind nano-antenna’s success was the so called “skin effect” as “the electrons transfer well because they want to go to the surface” and “instead of traveling through a bulk mass, they are traveling across a skin.”

We know that electrical "current" is not a flow of electrons. But here the movement of electrons is increased. I can imagine where this may lead...

If I were an investor, I'd invest here

This information and more I got from here:

www.urbansurvival.com...


[edit on 17-3-2009 by DangerDeath]

reply to post by Hx3_1963


Don't ask what government can do for you but what you can do for government?

Is that a hint of telling people to stop relying on government and their gouging on the tax payer? and start the revolution to fix the government?

This coming from Kennedy and knowing the conspiracy against the Federal Reserve bank during that time, I think he is hinting something.

[edit on 17-3-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043


You're Welcome

Doesn't help much either when we have stories like these:

How to Blow Your Credit Limit -- Without Spending

I am sure that if my CC company (even though I have 0 balance) would drop my limit lower than what was the running balance AND I was already struggling in this economic climate, I'd say screw 'em too.

reply to post by marg6043
Yeah...he's hinting all right...

We're supposed to suck it all up...this bail-out, free-for-all give away, ect

And be happy to do it..."for our countrys sake"...

It's what our ancestorrs did...and see how well they turned out
(currently broke from k101's being shot to hell)

Just more rich, non-realistic "talking heads" trying to brainwash us...


===
FTSE 100 3,825.91 9:04AM ET -38.08 (-0.99%)
CAC 40 2,739.56 9:20AM ET -52.10 (-1.87%)
DAX 3,995.77 9:05AM ET -48.77 (-1.21%)
===
CNBC is "shocked" by senators "resign or die" comments!!!


[edit on 3/17/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by marg6043


I realize that there are a TON of single family homes sitting empty in our country, but at the same time, we have people who lost homes and need a place to live, their only option...rent

I see rentals being more popular for quite a while, especially since we KNOW that mortgage brokers/bank loan officers have royally screwed many who did not have the education to understand the loan contract they were getting into - and apparently not enough sense to pay someone to explain it to them in plain english first.

Plus with so many unemployed (and basically homeless) turning apartments into Section 8 housing will benefit many people

Unfortunately - the growth is probably New Condos in New York, not apartments in areas (like New Orleans) that desperately need them

reply to post by Hx3_1963


I don't know, but relying on government is what got us into this mess we are right now.

People grow to comfortable to dependency.

If is the people the one that props the government and by the Constitution government is actually the people.

The politicians are nothing but representatives but when the start to represent private interest against the peoples government then they have to be fix, by the people.

Things that make you go

Bernanke May Need to Ramp Up Fed’s Asset Purchases

Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and Federal Reserve policy makers may have to ramp up their purchases of mortgage securities and other assets after the economy and job market deteriorated further since they last met.

The Federal Open Market Committee, gathering today and tomorrow in Washington, needs to redouble its efforts after the central bank’s balance sheet shrank 17 percent from a $2.3 trillion December peak, Fed watchers said. The retreat came even as Bernanke acknowledged the chance that the unemployment rate will exceed 10 percent for the first time in a quarter century.

“It takes massive balance-sheet expansion to generate significant easing in financial conditions,” said Andrew Tilton, an economist at Goldman Sachs Group Inc. in New York who used to work at the Treasury. “More needs to be done.”

This week’s FOMC meeting could mark a shift toward more aggressive monetary expansion to fight deflation after demand waned for many of the Fed’s existing programs. One top consideration is an increase in the pace and size of a $600 billion program to buy bonds issued and backed by U.S. housing agencies such as Fannie Mae, analysts said.

Other measures could include everything from purchases of Treasuries to corporate bonds, Tilton said. The Fed has already agreed to work with the Treasury on implementing a program to revive consumer and business loans, which the Obama administration has said could reach $1 trillion.

more at link

reply to post by Rockpuck



Slainte!
Wishing all the luck of the Irish today and in the days to come...I think we shall be needing it but for at least today,some of us will celebrate!

reply to post by redhatty
To bad they couldn't move all those abandoned General Growth complexes from w/sw to ne or the ne people to them...ah couldn't afford $900 mth rent anywhoo..

What I'm waiting for is the secondary defaults...where owners of rental units default...then what...tent citys or motel 6 for all?

reply to post by redhatty


Yes you are right, rental building or multiple family homes are the ones that are been seek right now.

Its going to be business growing on that type of construction.

As salaries keep stagnating, unemployment in the raise and incomes been cut in half, the American standard of living will degrade and single family homes will become a luxury.

How sad, I remember a while back that we had a thread talking on how the standards of living in America with the dying of the middle class will be downgraded.

The case for bonuses at A.I.G.

I won't even excerpt this here - it's TOO Infuriating.

Freaking cheerleaders for AIG now

There is something VERY WRONG in the thinking in MANY people in this country