Obama Born In Kenya? His Grandmother Says Yes

john mccain was born in panama, which last i checked was not part of the united states. this is a fact. so what does the op think of this fact? racism should have no place on this forum and posters should be called out for posting this kind of nonsense in times like these. where he or mccain were born does not help put food on my table, put gas in my car, clothes on my child. enough....

Originally posted by yeahright
Even IF Obama was born in Kenya, since his mom was a US citizen, he's a US citizen. Documentation of US Citizens Born Abroad.

*sigh* This will be about the 10th time I've answered this same argument. Look, it's a fact that under the laws in place when Obama was born he was not a citizen at birth if he was born in Kenya. Part of the requirement since only one of his parents was a citizen is that his mother would have had to live in the United States for at least 5 years after the age of 14. Since she was only 18...she doesn't meet this qualification. This law was changed in 1986 to the current law and the courts made it a point that this was not retroactive to births before 1986.

This all comes down to whether or not Obama was really born in Hawaii. Neither you, nor I (nor anybody else on these forums) really knows whether or not the provided birth certificate is genuine. Since a judge has ordered that a real, physical birth certificate has to be provided by tomorrow we will all know shortly. Until then, this is all just speculation.

A person born in Kenya would be ineligible to be president of the US because the Constitution states that they must be a "Natural-born citizen". Unfortunately, no one is really sure exactly what that means. But being a citizen is different than being a natural-born citizen.

I have yet to see a source where Obama's step-grandmother (Sarah) says she was present at his birth in Kenya. I'm sorry, I don't trust the source in the OP and I don't trust Berg. Berg is nobody. He's no more credible than anyone else. He doesn't show proof of his claims. He just makes claims.

Sarah had 4 other children, so I'm sure she saw some of "her" grandchildren born.

round_eyed_dog said it best here.

My own mother called me Charles (my brother's name - and I'm female) half the time.

I trust the pictures and story at factcheck.org.

Obama Family Tree

Other than your statement about factcheck.org, I agree with everything you said. What bothers me about the entire situation is that the Obama campaign could make this entire thing go away if they would just produce a physical birth certificate, yet they are fighting tooth and nail to not have to produce anything. Why? I smell smoke...where's the fire?

Originally posted by BlueTriangle
Other than your statement about factcheck.org, I agree with everything you said. What bothers me about the entire situation is that the Obama campaign could make this entire thing go away if they would just produce a physical birth certificate, yet they are fighting tooth and nail to not have to produce anything. Why? I smell smoke...where's the fire?

They aren't fighting tooth and nail, the judge hasn't even signed anything, which basically makes Berg's claim a piece of paper with demands on it at this point.

Of course, when the judge finally dismisses it everyone is going to say it's a conspiracy, even though McCain's case went the exact same way.

Originally posted by BlueTriangle
Other than your statement about factcheck.org, I agree with everything you said.

I know... Weird, huh?

What bothers me about the entire situation is that the Obama campaign could make this entire thing go away if they would just produce a physical birth certificate, yet they are fighting tooth and nail to not have to produce anything. Why?

It WOULDN'T go away, though. I have given it some thought. Let me just ask a few questions here to make a point.

What is John McCain's religion?
What church does he go to?
What's his middle name?
Have you seen his birth certificate?
Why do we just accept that it's valid?
Have you ever wondered before about any presidential candidate's eligibility?
Has there ever been a lawsuit filed to make a candidate prove his eligibility?
Would anyone even dream of making such "claims" against McCain?
Do we know that Obama has NOT provided absolute proof of his birth records to the proper governmental authorities??? - No, we do not.

I put myself in his position... If I were Obama, I might be mightily pissed that I am the first ever American candidate that is being demanded to prove to the entire country (beyond showing my Certificate of Birth on the Internet for every one to see) that I am eligible. No one has ever had to do this.

And just because some people have made unfounded claims that I might not really be American or that my religion is a question or that I'm "Arab" and hanging out with terrorists... That might be enough for me to say, "ENOUGH"! I won't be treated like a freakin' criminal when I've done everything that is required of me and much MORE. If these people want to prove that I'm ineligible, they're not going to vote for me anyway so they can just get .

I can easily see that happening. He's been fighting these smears all along. He has done nothing to deserve this treatment. There comes a time when no matter what he does, people are going to find fault. And that's what has happened:

People asked for his Birth Certificate, so he gave it. People said it was fake, so he let factcheck handle it, take pictures of it and post them. People STILL say it's fake. They want his actual original birth certificate. I'd have 2 words to say to people and I can't post them here. Maybe he's saying those 2 words, just not out loud. I know I would. Ya know?

Originally posted by BlueTriangle
Since a judge has ordered that a real, physical birth certificate has to be provided by tomorrow we will all know shortly. Until then, this is all just speculation.

And if real evidence (i.e. the original birth certificate) is not provided what then? I mean surely this is going to take forever to sort out (and why in the heck haven't they provided it already? He has a ton of minions to run and fetch this sort of thing).

So if it takes forever, even until after the election, does it eventually end up for Congress to decide if he wins? Or what?

[edit on 14-10-2008 by Sonya610]

This is far from over and a crime IMHO!

My biggest fear is that Obama will be elected and then forced to step down and hand over the office to Biden.

And you think things are bad now, just think about the riots and the hate crimes that will come if Obama is forced to step down.

And who's to blame when Blacks start fighting in the streets?

BHO thats who.

Also just think of how much money and time that will be wasted because Obama lied, it will take decades for the DNC to recover, fools!

Enjoy!

Berg vs Obama

BERG v. OBAMA et al
Plaintiff Philip J. Berg alleged that Defendant Barack Obama is not eligible for the Office of the President because Obama lost his U.S. citizenship when his mother married an Indonesian citizen and naturalized in Indonesia.

Plaintiff further alleged that Obama followed her naturalization and failed to take an oath of allegiance when he turned 18 years old to regain his U.S. citizenship status.

Plaintiff: PHILIP J. BERG
Defendant: BARACK OBAMA, THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE, THE FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION and DOES 1-50 INCLUSIVE

Case Number: 2:2008cv04083
Filed: August 21, 2008

Court: Pennsylvania Eastern District Court
Office: Other Statutory Actions Office [ Court Info ]
County: Montgomery
Presiding Judge: HONORABLE R. BARCLAY SURRICK

Nature of Suit: Other Statutes - Other Statutory Actions
Cause: U.S. Government Defendant
Jurisdiction: U.S. Government Defendant
Jury Demanded By: 28:2201 Injunction

Available Case Documents
Some selected documents for this case are included below.
Date Filed # Document Text
August 21, 2008 1 COMPLAINT against all defendants ( Filing fee $ 350 receipt number 951001.), filed by PHILIP J. BERG.(tj, )

August 21, 2008 2 MOTION FOR TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER AND FOR EXPEDITED DISCOVERY filed by PHILIP J. BERG,MEMORANDUM. (Attachments: # 1 Memorandum)(tj, )

August 22, 2008 4 ORDER THAT UPON CONSIDERATION OF PLAINITFF'S MOTION FOR TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER (DOC. NO. 2) AND AFTER HAVING A HEARING IN OPEN COURT IT IS ORDERED THAT THE MOTION IS DENIED. SIGNED BY HONORABLE R. BARCLAY SURRICK ON 8/22/08. 8/22/08 ENTERED AND COPIES FAXED FROM CHAMBERS. (jpd)

August 22, 2008 5 Acceptance of Service by U.S. Attorney Re: accepted summons and complaint for THE FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION on 8/22/2008, answer due 10/21/2008. (jpd)

September 2, 2008 6 Praecipe for Reissuance of Summons by PHILIP J. BERG. (BERG, PHILIP) Modified on 9/3/2008 (le, ).

September 9, 2008 7 Affidavit of Service of BRANDON A. SNESKO re: service of Alias Summons and Complaint, Memorandum in Support of Plaintiff's Motion for Temporary Restraining Order and for Expedited Discovery; Plaintiff's Motion for Temporary Restraining Order and for Expedited Discovery upon INDIRA HENRAD on behalf of DEFENDANT BARACK OBAMA, and upon AMANDA LAFORGE on behalf of DEFENDANT THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE by PERSONAL SERVICE on 9/4/2008, answer due 9/24/2008. (jpd).

September 9, 2008 8 MOTION to Expedite Discovery, Extensive Discovery and Appoint A Special Master filed by PHILIP J. BERG.Memorandum and Certificate of Service.(BERG, PHILIP)

September 11, 2008 9 Reissuance of Summons for the FEC by PHILIP J. BERG. (BERG, PHILIP)

September 15, 2008 10 ADDITIONAL CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE BY PLAINTIFF PHILIP J. BERG, ESQUIRE REGARDING SERVICE OF PLAINTIFF'S MOTION FOR EXPIDITED DISCOVERY UPON DEFENDANT BARACK H. OBAMA BY FAX AND UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE EXPRESS MAIL AND DEFENDANT DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE BY FAX AND UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE EXPRESS MAIL. (FAX TRANSMISSION LOG AND EXPRESS MAIL RECEIPTS ATTACHED). (jpd)

September 18, 2008 11 APPLICATION BY PAUL ANDREW MITCHELL FOR LEAVE TO INTERVENE AND FOR WRIT IN THE NATURE OF PROHIBITION, CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE. (jpd)

September 24, 2008 12 MOTION to Dismiss filed by BARACK OBAMA, THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE.Brief and Certificate of Service.(LAVELLE, JOHN)

September 29, 2008 13 RESPONSE in Opposition re 12 MOTION to Dismiss Brief in Support thereof and proof of service filed by PHILIP J. BERG. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit, # 2 Exhibit, # 3 Exhibit, # 4 Exhibit, # 5 Exhibit, # 6 Exhibit, # 7 Exhibit, # 8 Exhibit, # 9 Exhibit, # 10 Exhibit, # 11 Exhibit, # 12 Exhibit)(BERG, PHILIP) (Additional attachment(s) added on 9/30/2008: # 13 Exhibit 1) (jpd, ).

October 6, 2008 14 MOTION for Leave to File First Amended Complaint filed by PHILIP J. BERG.Brief in support thereof and Certificate of Service. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit)(BERG, PHILIP)

October 6, 2008 15 MOTION for Protective Order Staying Discovery Pending Decision on Dispositive Motion filed by BARACK OBAMA, THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE.Brief, Certification, Certificate of Service. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit Exhibit A)(LAVELLE, JOHN)

October 7, 2008 16 T.B. BRADLEY'S MOTION FOR APPLICATION TO INTERVENE WITH COMPLAINT AND PETITION FOR WRIT OF MANDAMUS DIRECTED TO THE AGENCIES OF THE UNITED STATES AND MOTION FOR INJUNCTIVE RELIEF, CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE. (jpd)

October 7, 2008 17 MOVANT T.B. BRADLEY'S MOTION TO APPEAR AS JANE DOE. (jpd)

October 9, 2008 18 RESPONSE in Opposition re 15 MOTION for Protective Order Staying Discovery Pending Decision on Dispositive Motion Brief in Support thereof and Certificate of Service filed by PHILIP J. BERG. (BERG, PHILIP) (Entered: 10/09/2008)

dockets.justia.com...:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
PHILIP J. BERG, ESQUIRE, :

Plaintiff :
vs. : CIVIL ACTION NO. 08-cv-04083-RBS:

BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, a/k/a :
BARRY SOETORO, a/k/a :
BARRY OBAMA, a/k/a : JURY TRIAL DEMANDED
BARACK DUNHAM, a/k/a :
BARRY DUNHAM, THE :
DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL :
COMMITTEE, THE FEDERAL :
ELECTION COMMISSION AND :
DOES 1-50 INCLUSIVE, :

Defendants :ORDER
AND NOW this ______day of October, 2008, upon consideration of

Defendants,

Barack H. Obama and the Democratic National Committee’s Motion for a Protective Order and Stay Pending the Decision on Defendants Dispositive Motion and Plaintiff’s Response in Opposition thereto, it is hereby
ORDERED and DECREED as follows:

1. Defendants Motion for Protective Order Staying Discovery
pending the Court’s Decision on Defendants dispositive Motion is
DENIED;

2. Defendants are hereby ORDERED to Answer Plaintiff’s
Discovery Requests by way of Admissions and Request for
Production of Documents by October 15, 2008.

IT IS SO ORDEREDBY THE COURT:
R. Barclay Surrick, J.

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA

PHILIP J. BERG, ESQUIRE, :
Plaintiff :vs. : CIVIL ACTION NO. 2:08-cv-04083-RBS
:
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, a/k/a :
BARRY SOETORO, a/k/a :
BARRY OBAMA, a/k/a : JURY TRIAL DEMANDED
BARACK DUNHAM, a/k/a :
BARRY DUNHAM, THE :
DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL :
COMMITTEE, THE FEDERAL :
ELECTION COMMISSION AND :
DOES 1-50 INCLUSIVE, :
Defendants :
ORDER
AND NOW this ______day of October, 2008, upon consideration of Defendants,
Barack H. Obama and the Democratic National Committee’s Motion for a Protective
Order and Stay pending the Decision on Defendants Dispositive Motion and Plaintiff’s
Response in Opposition thereto, it is hereby


docs.justia.com...:2008cv04083/281573/18/0.pdf

In the 50s and 60s, they referred to blacks as Negro. Not African, please what a fabrication.

Originally posted by secretstash
And if that is a valid document why are they dragging it through court?

[edit on 10/13/2008 by secretstash]

Because if you keep the truth bogged down in court until after the election it allows those of you to assume that Obama wasn't born in the U.S.

It's kinda like the 9-11 no planers thing... If you have some proof otherwise, (like actual proof not statements, which classify as circumstantial evidence.) that this document is a fake, please present it.

I love how innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply in the court of public opinion.

The man has provided a birth certificate, from the U.S. There is no discussion to the contrary. If you think it's not real... GET SOME PROOF that it's not real.

Otherwise your views are nothing but conjecture, focusing on the negative, which isn't conducive to any kind of forward progress in this discussion.

P.s. not specifically at you secretstash, but to those members who believe this is an actual issue in the election.

First let's look at the law concerning this:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Source.

Now, although the law has changed since 1961, it was not 'grandfathered' in, so the law concerning 'natural born citizen' in 1961 apply here, not the current ones:

If one parent is a US citizen, and the other is not, and the parents are married, then the current law says the child is a US citizen if the American parent was physically present in the US for one or more periods of time totalling at least five years, at some time or times in his or her life prior to (but not necessarily immediately prior to) the child's birth. Additionally, at least two years out the required five years of physical presence must have taken place after the parent's 14th birthday; thus, for example, a parent who was born and grew up in the US, but who left before reaching age 16 and never returned, doesn't meet the requirement.

Prior to 14 November 1986, the physical presence requirement in this case was ten years (instead of five) -- including five years (instead of two) spent after the parent's 14th birthday. The requirement was reduced in 1986, but the change did not retroactively make US citizenship available to people born previously who did not meet the old requirement. (Congress's intent not to make this change retroactive was affirmed in 1988 with the passage of Public Law 100-525, § 8(d), 102 Stat. 2619).

Source.

His mother was only 18 at the time of his birth, so if he was born in Kenya, he is not a 'natural born citizen' and ineligible for the office of the President. But this is not the only problem brought up by the Berg v. Obama case. When his mother married Lolo Soetoro and moved the family to Indonesia in 1967, there is documentation showing that Lolo adopted Obama, changed his name to Barry Soetoro and made him a citizen of Indonesia, which at that time did not allow for dual-citizenship. At this time he would have lost his 'natural born citizenship' status (providing he was born in Hawaii) and would have been required to become a 'naturalized citizen' upon his return to the states.

We will know one way or the other tomorrow, as the Judge in the case has ordered Obama to provide the following documentation by October 15th to the plaintiff:

1. A certified copy of Obama’s “vault” (original long version) birth

2. Certified copies of all reissued and sealed birth certificates of
Obama in the names referred to in the caption of this lawsuit;

3. A certified copy of Obama’s Certification of Citizenship;

4. A certified copy of Obama’s Oath of Allegiance taken upon age of
majority;

5. Certified copies of Obama’s Application and Admission forms for
Occidental College, Columbia University and Harvard Law
School; and

6. Certified copies of any Court Orders or legal documents changing
Obama’s name from Barry Soetoro to Barack Hussein Obama.

Source.

If these documents prove that Obama is a 'natural born citizen', we probably won't hear a thing about it. However, if they prove the opposite, expect all hell to break out!

I am not a McCain supporter, however I am tired of the Constitution being used as toilet paper by politicians, including those currently in office. If Obama is not eligible, then he needs to be removed from the ballot immediately!

[edit on 14-10-2008 by JaxonRoberts]

reply to post by coven


I guess my speculation is that if he turned over the proper documents, like they say McCain did, then why are we still having this debate. Why do I not see where anyone posts, "Yeah we checked it and it was good." Maybe I just missed those.

Is this really misdirection when the lawsuit is being persued by a Democratic lawyer? Is this an attempt by Hilary to get back on the ticket? I really just want to understand the whole thing.

Obama is not going to supply these documents. If he had any intention of supplying them he would have already done so.

Obama should have supplied everything immediately so that he isn't wasting more of the tax-payers money. I wonder how much money has already been wasted on this case?

Obama should pony up the money to cover the court costs ... after all, he can afford it so wouldn't that be the 'neighborly' thing to do?!?

Jemison

Originally posted by Mak Manto
Oh, come on...

He's an American...

He was born in Hawaii.

The birth certificate posted on Obama's site has been revealed to be a fraud. In fact, I believe I read that investigators determined that the birth certificate was actually printed for his sister. Also notice that it is a computer print out. If he actually had a copy of his original birth certificate, it would have been typed.

The fact that no one with any authority is looking into this is astounding to me, because the guy isn't even eligible to be president.

reply to post by Mak Manto


I saw a quote from an Obama campaign person that never actually said Obama was BORN in Hawaii. He instead tried to argue about how Obama never accepted Kenyan citizenship and didn't denounce American citizenship, so he's American.

The question also goes back to the fact that, as the law was written when he was born, his mother was not old enough to pass on her citizenship to him, so, if he were not born on U.S. soil, he had absolutely NO RIGHT to citizenship. Therefore, if it's true that he was born in Kenya, not only is he ineligible to be President, but he's also not a U.S. citizen any more than an illegal alien from Mexico is.

reply to post by Mak Manto

Where are the birth stats,and attending doctors signature?That is what is required on a "Vault" certificate.Any one with a computer can make a copy like the one you have shown.

Originally posted by David9176
Lol..OMG his grandmother must be a republican working for McCain's campaign!!! If this is true...which there is really no proof that there is...are Obama defenders going to attack Obama's grandmother? I can see it now..."She's too old!!! She's senile!!!! She's just 4 more years of Bush!!!!"

She's a MAVERICK!!!!

haha

[edit on 13-10-2008 by David9176]

LOL, obviously, his grandma is ignorant with regards to the requirements for being a U.S. president. This is probably one of the reasons Corsi was so rudely kicked out of the country - they don't want people to find out about any of this. And no one will. I have to wonder if Americans would still vote for him anyway, even if tomorrow, during the debate, he came right out and said he was born in Kenya and isn't a legal U.S. citizen. They would probably still vote for him. They're like deer in the headlights.

Any birth certificate, even a certified copy is going to have signatures and an embossed seal. I haven't seen any on this one.

reply to post by Mak Manto


So Fact Check knows all and is never wrong? Exactly how were they checking it and what were they checking? Only relatives can get a copy of a birth certificate for someone in Hawaii, so you know they didn't request one.

You really have to wonder why the Obama campaign isn't just providing a legitimate birth certificate to fight the lawsuit against him. They aren't, because they can't! They don't have one. A legit certificate does not exist.

Grandma blabbed the info about his birth because she didn't know not to. Don't you think it's peculiar that we've heard so little about his Kenyan family ties...

reply to post by k-string


How about that he isn't even an american citizen if he was actually born on Kenyan soil. Should we elect illegal immigrants as President? If he was born in kenya, then he is not legally an American citizen because his mother was not old enough to pass on her citizenship. She was too young. The law has since changed, but at the time of his birth, he could not receive U.S. citizenship because of her - he would only be a citizen if he were born on our soil. So, this isn't just bringing into question where this guy was born - it's bringing into question whether our future president should actually be deported to Kenya!