Okay, First things first. I have a serious question and would like serious responses. I do not want this to turn into a shouting match. I say this ahead of time because I know how touchy this subject is.

I say this because this is one of the biggest hypocrisies I have seen in religion firsthand. Let me explain.

As I have explained in a recent post of mine I worked for a time in the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit(NCIU) when I was a Corpsman in the navy. That is a very tough job to work and you can lose it emotionally in there if you are not on top of your emotions.

As a Corpsman I had the most direct contact with the parents, more then the nurses and ALOT more then the Drs. Usually when the parents where there I was constanly by their side to assist them with anything that they need. I had to assist them with things like teaching them how to feed thier children thru NG (nasogastric) tubes. I was also there to help them as they held their dead children in their arms and grieved for their lost children.

On many occasions there was a priest or chaplain there to console them and almost everytime the chaplain told them that it was "gods will" or that "god knew there was something wrong with the child, so he brought the child home to heaven"

I also have heard that ALOT when people miscarry or stillborn. I hear that "god knew there was something wrong and ended the pregnancy".

With that being said, Wouldn't that make God an Abortionist?

Nature is perfect in its imperfection.
All things we see and perceive in the physical form are not as perfect as we see them to be.
Thinking about it to much makes one crazy.
Take care of your emotions and you will be ok.
You might drop dead tomorrow and find out everything is very different and less plastic than you once thought.
So just live life and try and do the best you can.
Which it sounds like you already have.

[edit on 9-10-2008 by Interestinggg]

I personally don't think this is a resolvable problem of theology. I don't think that if god did exist, that babies would be made with defects that god would not foresee, so he had to have done this on purpose. Furthermore, I don't think that anything that God was hoping to archive with such a tragedy is worth the life of children.

Unsolvable, aye.

[edit on 10/9/2008 by Good Wolf]

[edit on 10/9/2008 by Good Wolf]

I have kind of come to the conclusion that Bible was written by man to pass down the wisdom of the generations before it and as a cautionary tale. That does not mean there isnt a God. It just means he doesnt function that way. If you observe nature God is a big advocate of letting the universe create itself. But I dont know of any of this for sure. I am just trying to resolve some of this stuff in my own mind.

I dont think its wrong for a chaplain to help people try to resolve in a positive way a very tragic loss. I would probably do the same thing.

[edit on 9-10-2008 by justsomeboreddude]

I believe God designed the system. A system that is self creating, self evolving, self sustaining, and self destroying. I don't believe that he sees any one particular child and says, "not correct, time to abort." But, who really knows, trying to decipher God's will is like trying to decipher morse code out of a glass of milk, it just doesn't make any sense, lol.

Originally posted by BluegrassRevolutionary
trying to decipher God's will is like trying to decipher morse code out of a glass of milk, it just doesn't make any sense, lol.

Neither do your analogies.

[edit on 10/9/2008 by Good Wolf]

As someone who has had BOTH an abortion and a miscarriage, I can TELL you that God had NOTHING to do, (ABSOLUTELY NOTHING) with my abortion.
It was my STUPID decision as a 19 year old, that RUINED my life ALL by myself.
Having a doctor pull a living baby apart in your womb! I saw a devil there though on the recovery table and I WASN'T a believer in Jesus or the Bible.

I had nightmares and felt worse than a vietnam vet who had killed a civilian by accident!

When I had a miscarriage years later, (Whom I had SWORN NOT TO abort, even though I was still single and financially unstable) I KNEW it was ,(not only because my boyfriend (who was the father of the aborted child) and I were arguing and he accidentally pushed the swing-set over where I was sitting, causing me to fall on my back,out which started the bleeding), but, I was STILL not a believer and I STILL knew it was God, who took the Baby, knowing I would be an idiot parent!
It took that miscarriage for me to see the truth.

Years, later, I was taking care of my nephews full-time, when I realized how GREAT children are and how you can be responsible, when you love someone.
But, it hurt me SO BAD that I had intentionally killed mine and people knew about it.
I carried that guilt with me for 4 years, until the night I asked Jesus to forgive me!
He did.
Then my life began anew! LIke a newborn baby.
I now am the mother of three with a great husband and a life that I only dreamed about. Also, I'm not an idiot anymore, Thank God!
God has reasons for what He does, even when they're not obvious or make sense.


[edit on 9-10-2008 by Clearskies]

I believe that if there was a god.

Then it would be god's right to "play god".
As opposed to us mortals putting on the god hat, and doing the killing ourselves.

I think this is a simple and viable argument.

Originally posted by Good Wolf

Originally posted by BluegrassRevolutionary
trying to decipher God's will is like trying to decipher morse code out of a glass of milk, it just doesn't make any sense, lol.

Neither do your analogies.

[edit on 10/9/2008 by Good Wolf]

That was the point. Obviously your missed it.

Originally posted by Good Wolf

Originally posted by BluegrassRevolutionary
trying to decipher God's will is like trying to decipher morse code out of a glass of milk, it just doesn't make any sense, lol.

Neither do your analogies.

[edit on 10/9/2008 by Good Wolf]

In trying to create a analogy that would be applicable I tried to think of something that made no sense. Hence, morse code and a glass of milk, they make no sense and have no connection to one another. Get it?

Originally posted by jwstarry
On many occasions there was a priest or chaplain there to console them and almost everytime the chaplain told them that it was "gods will" or that "god knew there was something wrong with the child, so he brought the child home to heaven"

I also have heard that ALOT when people miscarry or stillborn. I hear that "god knew there was something wrong and ended the pregnancy".

With that being said, Wouldn't that make God an Abortionist?

the priest has no idea what he is talking about. and if anything, what he is saying is actually hurting their relationship with god.

eccl 9:[11] I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

imperfect mankind lives outside the protection of god. While god does from time to time intervene if its suits a specific purpose, most of the time bad things happen as a consequence of our actions, or by us just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Originally posted by miriam0566
most of the time bad things happen as a consequence of our actions, or by us just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So it's the parents fault then? That makes them murderers. It's fairly irresponsible of God to put that kind of inhumane pressure on the psyche of these unfortunate people.

No, there are more rational explanations than that.

Did you know, that there is a percentage of people on Earth who have RH negative blood?

When a woman with RH- blood is pregnant, there is a small chance that the baby could be RH+. If the baby is RH+ and the mother is RH-, the mothers immune system will attack the baby, and kill the baby before it is born.

RH negative woman are natural born killers. It is natural abortion.


[edit on 20-10-2008 by ALLis0NE]

While I think a lot of the miscarriages can be attributed to toxins within the mother's body, this is indeed a very good question. I've used a similar argument to question why it's theologically acceptible that kids can be with mental defects like retardation and autism, but a transgendered person must be doing it for attention.

I'll add in, science has found that it's very common for women to conceive 2 or 3 fetuses but naturally abort all but one around 4 weeks of pregnancy... this is the light bleeding most woman mistake for their last period.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by asmeone2]

Originally posted by Good Wolf

Originally posted by miriam0566
most of the time bad things happen as a consequence of our actions, or by us just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So it's the parents fault then? That makes them murderers. It's fairly irresponsible of God to put that kind of inhumane pressure on the psyche of these unfortunate people.

No, there are more rational explanations than that.

no, thats not what im saying. im saying that sometimes bad things happen as a result of our actions.

a person can contract a disease if they have sex with the wrong person. or if you have a disease, you can give it to someone else. this is an example of a direct consequence of sin.

but i also said that you can be in the wrong place at the wrong time. maybe a rope breaks and a piano falls on your head. the devil didnt do it, neither did god. just wrong place at the wrong time.

there are lots of reasons that child could miscarry. i doubt very much any of them have anything to do with god.

for anyone that believes in god, the question comes up everytime something bad or unfair happens. the question is why?

for the priest to say what he said is ridiculas. he puts the fault directly in god's hands and it wasnt god who did anything.

Originally posted by miriam0566
but i also said that you can be in the wrong place at the wrong time. maybe a rope breaks and a piano falls on your head. the devil didnt do it, neither did god. just wrong place at the wrong time.

there are lots of reasons that child could miscarry. i doubt very much any of them have anything to do with god.

Well personally, I would agree. "Cause and effect" but most people who believe in God feel that everything happens for a reason and not just a circumstantial reason. Most believe in a God who has a plan for their life, at least for all the most significant events in their lives.

Don't you think a new life is to important to leave to circumstances? Don't you think that kind of lack of nurturing from God is kind of irresponsible.

Don't you think a new life is to important to leave to circumstances? Don't you think that kind of lack of nurturing from God is kind of irresponsible.

Not if we are just lemmings! We think too highly of ourselves, as history supports. Obviously we are wrong in this thinking.

So what would be the correct understanding? What are the other options? This then becomes an interesting reality to expand on.