true, but its not part of the womb. it has its own dna

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

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A newborn is not dependent upon being inside the mother's womb to survive. Any "adult" can care and nurture a newborn. Big difference. A very big difference. The fetus is a parasite until birth. Period. (This does not change emotional attachment or very real grief of the loss of that potential, it just means that under no sane guidelines can an unborn fetus be considered a whole human being.)

reply to post by miriam0566

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Until technology provides a way to transplant an ectopic pregnancy into the uterus, or into another woman at any point within a pregnancy, I cannot see that potentiality as an actual human.

This isn't really a black and white issue. There are many shades of grey, and since you don't want to force your particular views on others, I have no problem with you having a different view on this. I'm sharing my own view - and some of the why. The only time I have a problem with other viewpoints are when they are being forced upon others.

im not forcing it on anyone, but i am putting out a simple observation.

even if the first stages of human life are parasitic, its still separate from the mother. it´s its own life not the mother´s ¨body¨

why would every other stage of life be considered human, except the first trimester? and old person can be senile dependant on others, yet they are still human. toddlers and infacts dont even think like adult humans and they are dependant to a degree, yet they are considered human. its just stages of human life. the human changes constantly throughout their life, but its always human.

except the first 3 months, then its not human, its a thing, a parasite. fine, but then why cant a person have an abortion at 8 months? isnt it still a parasite?

im guessing that you are pointing out that an undeveloped fetus or embryo is not human because its not developed. but that has implications. does this mean that people who are less developed than others are less human? what happens if the brain doesnt develop the way it should and this person grows up not thinking like other humans, are they less human?

you call it gray but it is reasonable black and white. from day one, we are unique. we have our own DNA. if left to nature with normal conditions, we will grow up to be unique human beings.

if you are talking about an abortion because there is a complication, then i can see a grey area, then you are talking about 2 lives and 1 or both may be lost.

but the argument that an embryo or a fetus isnt human? i sincerely think that is just to make people feel better.

Of coarse, because if they can't think that, then it really is murder.
A morality domino effect of sorts. And most be people don't wants to be evil like that.

I remember Ron Paul telling a story of how a baby was aborted and thrown in a garbage can, left there to cry and die, if that isn't murder tell me what is?

[edit on 1-2-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

No, it is not a rationalization. It is cold hard fact that prior to 25 weeks - and until about 31 weeks - it is impossible for a fetus to survive without being a parasitical creature. From 25 to about 31 weeks, if born, extreme medical intervention is needed.

Really, if you want to get technical from a theological point of view, it is not until the "breathe of life" occurs - the first breath after birth - that has been believed to be the beginning of life. It was not until some rejected Anglican theologian came up with other logic that this was even debated.

Really, I think the idea that it is murder is so ludicrous that anyone who says it should not be allowed a seat at the table of discussion. I really don't. But, that is an opinion, and, unfortunately, the unscientific thinkers in the world have as much a right to their opinions as the scientific thinkers.

i ironically you still dont answer the question, im guessing instead that you are calling me an unscientific thinker and saying that i should even be able to talk.

but the question still stands.

why, beyond any reasonable doubt (since you seem absolutely sure) is a fetus not human. cannot one also that is human, just in a certain phase?

reply to post by miriam0566

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No, I've answered it several times:

It cannot survive outside the woman's uterus.