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ATS and Robbie Williams UFO Investigation: Round Two of Gilliand Videos

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posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by NephraTari
Sorry as skeptical as I am about the ranch.. I cannot agree with that assessment. The object pretty cleary goes behind the trees. Which eliminates the idea of a bug. At least that is the way it looks.


Hi there,

I do agree with waveguide, these "objects" were within the blurfo zone.



I asked Johnny about posting high definition stills (frames), specially when he thinks that they are going "behind" the trees.

I know he will do it because he positively responded to my request and I want to thank him in advance for that.


I also wanna thank waveguide for sharing his knowledge and wise comments with us.



Peace,
Europa


[edit on 3-10-2008 by Europa733]




posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 02:45 PM
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S&F~! Thanks guys! This bit of info closely validates my experience I had in 77'-78' which you can see some of the posts try and discredit my experience.. however.. what you've just investigated about the sounds.. practically fits My Experience to a 'T'~!!

Ok, I'll say this, the sounds that I heard on the this post where very eerily similar..with only 2 exceptions.

1). The humming was louder; enough to be heard by a human ear.
2). 'computer counters' turning on & off(?)*blips* (for a lack of better words, since it's difficult to describe and the best I can come up with is what I've posted already Star Wars droid) were in the humming that I heard that night.

My observation on the sounds videos:
You didn't have a control video. From reviewing the sounds, it doesn't show any panning around the camp/area to ensure you didn't have machinery running at the time you recorded the sounds.

Kudos to the control video for the Orbs~!!! Great stuff~!! Thanks!

Oh and Springer.. yea.. please disregard my U2U on having a investigation team on this stuff LOL.. you ROCK ~!!


[edit on 3-10-2008 by Komodo]

[edit on 3-10-2008 by Komodo]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by Nohup

Originally posted by thethirdofthestorms
Both times you hear an airplane in the "unexplained sounds" video,the sound itself seems to go higher,more alerting...


What I was thinking about the sounds was that at least some of them could be long echoes of semi-trailer trucks down-shifting on a hill or pass. That noise carries for a long distance, with the lower frequencies dropping off, leaving the higher, more mechanical sounding frequencies to be heard.

Otherwise, they could be any number of things. Buzzing bugs, the wind vibrating tent ropes or tight barbed wire, frogs, whatever. I'm always surprised when I get away from the city how everything is so quiet and noisy at the same time.

Again, as a parallel to stereo photography, a binaural audio setup might be useful for at least identifying where the sounds were coming from.


The loopback didn't sound biological to me at all. I would think you would hear some sort of noticeable differences in the set among all the samples collected. They all start low and get progressively louder in a short amount of time.

It would interesting to graph the waveset, to see if the loopback samples, from the start of the phenomenon, all take the exact same amount of time to so from a low waveform to the sustained pitch you hear on the audio. If that can be determined as a yes, then it would be hard evidence to claim that the sound was artificial in nature. You could rule out wind by this method as well as wind has varying wind speeds that would very the pitch up and down as the loopback progresses, which I didn't audibly hear.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 02:57 PM
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ok ....grrrrr...

can't remember how to even edit my own posts yet I guess.


anyways, Is there anyway to record the velocity of the orb going behind the mountain??



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by sos37
You could rule out wind by this method as well as wind has varying wind speeds that would very the pitch up and down as the loopback progresses, which I didn't audibly hear.


The only thing is if it was wind vibrating a tent cord or some other kind of string or cable, you would hear an increase in volume as wind speed increased, but there wouldn't necessarily be an increase in frequency, as the frequency and associated harmonics would be determined by the length and tension of the cable alone. Looks like somebody needs a wind speed meter.


Oh, all the unaccounted for variables!

[edit on 3-10-2008 by Nohup]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 03:01 PM
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Not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but as I was listening to the weird sounds, they actually sound quit a bit like the sounds that Billy Meier was claiming that the beamships made. The link for the sounds is at

www.theyfly.com...

Im not saying its the same thing, but, in the beginning of the sound clip on his website, it sounds alot like the ones on the ATS video. The ones on the ATS vid are obviously alot quieter (farther away maybe?)



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by anyone
 


thanks for the dorothy support and she too is my muse. my wife cant wait until i stop watching capturing the light.


ive decided to write dorothy if at all possible and i am encouraging her to listent to the video's on this very thread. maybe if ATS wont go to dorothy, i can bring dorothy to ATS. wish me luck.

now if only linda moulton howe would listen. ill try her too.

[edit on 10/3/2008 by LordThumbs]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 04:27 PM
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Quick and dirty waveform image. I deleted some of the noisier ones with airplanes and too much talking (and Wookies) to compare similar events.

I've done my share of home music recording, but that doesn't qualify me as an expert in anything.




The sound does not have any apparent Doppler shift, which would suggest a a moving object. They all have roughly the same amplitude, which would also suggest that whatever is is always the same distance away from the microphone.

They vary in duration. The volume envelope also varies, although generally, what you get is a relatively quick ramp-up to maximum volume, followed by a comparatively long fade out. If it means anything, the recorded volume is also not equal in both microphones, so it has some directionality to it. It seems to be coming consistently from the right (I guess) side of the camera.

Some of the sounds are accompanied by obvious wind noise rumble in the microphone, suggesting that they may have something to do with the wind.

The Audacity software I did this with isn't really set up for audio spectrum analysis. Or I'm not smart enough to figure out what to do with it and present it here. But this bit of information is somewhat interesting. Possibly.


[edit on 3-10-2008 by Nohup]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 05:09 PM
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The object pretty cleary goes behind the trees. Which eliminates the idea of a bug. At least that is the way it looks.

Hi there,

I do agree with waveguide, these "objects" were within the blurfo zone.

I asked Johnny about posting high definition stills (frames), specially when he thinks that they are going "behind" the trees.

I know he will do it because he positively responded to my request and I want to thank him in advance for that.


I also wanna thank waveguide for sharing his knowledge and wise comments with us.


Peace,
Europa

[edit on 3-10-2008 by Europa733]


I had the opportunity to see the video at full resolution on my system which is a video editing system so I know the codex and the video drivers so can account for any artifacting and distortions in the AVI files.

Fact is everything you saw on ATS was at sub-pro resolutions and although as a video person I agree with the blur distort rules, I saw something not applicable in the blur signature that could not be attributed to any natural phenomena.

I am also a visual expert. I've been illustrating with computers for 30 years (still and animation) and are quite skilled at seeing definition in blurred objects, knowing "how" to look at such imagery and even how to process such internally (eye-brain). I got much of this ability in 35 years of deep sky astronomy, knowing how to see detail most untrained eyes would not resolve. It is a learned skill. Seeing galactic and planetary as well as cometary detail to see things cameras fail to see can be done with eyes, good optics and a quantum computer (brain).

I saw in the originals "slowly" rotating prominences as one of the objects crossed the screen. I also saw foreshortening in the size as it moved giving an indication of direction of travel and rough angle. The perspective I saw and extrapolated from the image/animation, and my :visual" understanding said this was not inside the focal of the camera. In other words, between the lens and the focal point, which was infinity.

It was plain to me the object was not forground. It did not look background either. So what? If it was anomalous it could be something traveling not quite in phase of the EM we see, hear and call reality. It was infrared signature, so heat. Maybe a bleed through from something traveling in a different modality.

I have much more to say, but suffice it to say, I think from my experience and visual skillset employed, it was more likely not a conventional (insect, seedpod, dust, swamp gas or otherwise). I thing the answer lends itself to something not in the top drawer of our answer chest. In fact, taken all the material, it is something we've yet to pin down in our knowledge of the physical world.

More later, but I could not find any donkey to pin this tail on yet, but still at the party.


ZG


[edit on 10/3/2008 by ZeroGhost]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 05:20 PM
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It kind of looks like a meteor. Not that I would know.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by Shocka
It kind of looks like a meteor. Not that I would know.


Except meteors don't fly up. And when they do hit the ground they should leave even a small crater.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by Nohup
 


Yeah, Audacity isn't really the best for audio analysis, although for being free it's pretty good. If the sound is primarily on the right side of the camera though, isn't the side one would usually load a tape in from. So, this may still be a mechanical issue.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall
I do have a question to Johnny...to me this sounds like an internal sound from the recorder. I'm unsure what type of recorder this is and what moving parts are in it, but it sounds either like a small bearing that has been worn, or a CD drive that has begun to wobble. Can you give some feedback on that? Have you set this same recorder up since the excursion and just let it record for a long period of time to see if it makes that noise again?


A good question.

Prior to this particular unit being brought up to the Gilliland Ranch it was given a head to toe (or would that be a tape transport to recording head) inspection and cleaning. I have a friend that is a former Sony repair Guru (he's also one of my PC Guru's too) and I asked him to give it a once over. I had the capstans, tape transport guides, the heads, and internals all inspected with the instructions to bring everything back to factory specs. He informed me that the unit was in tip-top shape with no loose parts and all he did was do a professional head cleaning (although in his opinion the unit was in like-new condition, I still insisted on it). I ran approximately 7 hours of tape through it prior to going up to Gillilands.

This was the cameras maiden voyage into it's UFO recording quest. It's functioning and recording was flawless. It recorded 9 videotapes (18 hours) prior to these strange events being captured. There was a total of four tapes that captured these strange audio bits. No setting changes (CAVEAT: zoom/focus). I clean the heads every 5 recordings (I'm a former Broadcast TV guy, I take care of my equipment religiously.

In regards to your query as to just let it record for a long time after the said above events, would 50+ additional hours seem like an acceptable amount of extra recording? And every tape recording was perfect and the events captured in those couple of days was never repeated or caught again in the following week+ of recording. One would think that if it was an internal problem, that it would've repeated itself sometime in that next 50+ hours of taping/activity.

Since my return from my jaunt to Washington, I've used the camcorder for about 12 hours doing static recordings, (aimed towards the East for possible daylight objects at Sunrise). All recordings have been flawless also.

I'm going to have to rule out the possibility of mechanical failure with a 99.99% level of confidence. I'm basing this on my personal years of field location and experience in the Television medium, the word of my Tech Guru, and the hours of tape that it has recorded since the capturing of said events in question.

Hope that answers your query.



Originally posted by thethirdofthestorms
Correct me if i'm wrong.

Both times you hear an airplane in the "unexplained sounds" video,the sound itself seems to go higher,more alerting...
Don't you think?


There are more than just several audio captures and there are several that do not have any planes or jets in them. I equate the fact that there are planes heard in a few of the captures as a mere coincidence. In just the same way or train of thought that there are people in the background/foreground which I also put in the "chance coincidence" department.



Originally posted by Xcalibur254
According to this site I found there are two different species of cicada native to Eastern Washington. The Eastern Washington Cicada and the Buzzing Cicada. However, the sound recorded on the video doesn't sound like cicada, it sound like a feedback loop, and to my knowledge there's no way for a natural sound to produce a feedback loop.

www.bentler.us...


Thank You so much for someone finally providing a direct link for Washington state regarding to Cicadas. It's much appreciated



Originally posted by sos37
First of all, thanks for all the hard work and the awesome videos. The clarity and sound quality are amazing!

I do have a few of questions for you guys about the videos related to the anomalous sounds.

1. I've heard a very similar sound to the "feedback loop" before, but it wasn't ET in origin. It was years ago when I had the casing off a 4-head VCR that I was trying to fix and I was running a tape through the machine. When I ejected the tape, the tape came out and the heads or something inside continued to spin and as it spun down, the sound was very similar to what I heard on that feedback loop.

Obvious the IR camera you're using isn't a VCR, but I'm not familiar with the camera setup. Is it recording to magnetic tape just a VCR tape does or is it purely digital?

2. I'm sure this question has been covered somewhere, but has the IR camera that recorded the sounds been set into a controlled test environment like a sound proof room or a basement and set to run for a long period of time to make sure that the same feedback loop didn't re-occur? Also, has the IR camera been tried in another outdoor location not on Gilliland Ranch and been determined not to produce the feedback loop (assuming something environmental isn't causing the camera to make the noise).

3. This was probably also covered somewhere, but when the feedback sound was happening, was it audible to the people around? Could you actually hear it going on or did only the camera pick up this odd sound?

I'm not a skeptic, I'm just trying to rule out all of the possibilities. I would love for this to be the recorded sound of a "beam ship" or experimental plane, but in my mind, I need to exhaust all of the possibilities before I can buy off.


Answer to #1:
Yes, it is magnetic tape on a SONY 1998 Analog X-R Series Hi-8 Camcorder. And being a former Camcorder/VCR Rep/Salesperson for a large Electronics firm I can say in fact that both VCR's and Camcorders do exactly as you described, which is the heads spinning down. They also do the same on start-up which is to bring the spinning heads to a proper rotation speed before recording. And no, I don't believe that the sounds or the objects captured on video are ET in origin. Unless I physically have an Alien make contact with me and hand me something (and good luck with that concept ever happening), I choose to try and find an "earthly" explanation for what was captured. This does not mean that I have an "earthly" explanation yet, and hence why we continue to try and disseminate what we are presenting.

Answer to #2
After the initial captures were made, the camcorder recorded from various locations another 50+ some odd hours without anything strange being captured. When I returned back to the studio, I've recorded on the same unit another 12 odd hours on it and again without any strange sounds or noises.

Answer to #3
In all the captures, although there are people nearby and speaking to one another, no one when questioned said that they heard anything. The only person I did not ask this to was the star of the Paranormal State show regarding the capture of weird sound while he was interviewing a witness. They were the nearest to the camcorder in all of these events (probably 6 to 8 feet away), this is the capture that ends abruptly when the tape ran out and shutdown automatically.



Originally posted by waveguide3
I watched Johnny's tin can and ball throwing experiment with interest. The distance to the tall trees seems to be maybe 3-400 yards (?).

With hindsight, a high speed camera would have helped resolve some of the issues raised in trying to analyse fast moving fuzzy objects snapped with a conventional camera. Johhny mentions interframe streaking due to the video mechanism, but also shutter speed.


There are 1760 yards in a mile. Our location for the camcorder was just 15 yards shy of being a quarter mile to the front of the two trees.

Yes, a High-speed camera would've been great, we were forced to shoot at 1/5000 a second. Shooting in infrared on a camcorder will not have the same quality as shooting without. But if one can capture something that can not be seen in the normal visual spectrum, one has to make a trade-off. I chose to try and capture something and then deal with the circumstances later on.


Originally posted by Europa733

I asked Johnny about posting high definition stills (frames), specially when he thinks that they are going "behind" the trees.


If you U2U me I'll send you a link to a link for downloading a clean segment of the larger object (sorry, I have way too much on plate to do captures of all of them).



Originally posted by Komodo

My observation on the sounds videos:
You didn't have a control video. From reviewing the sounds, it doesn't show any panning around the camp/area to ensure you didn't have machinery running at the time you recorded the sounds.


You may have missed the video and also some of the previous posts that mentioned that I went to some lengths to not only duplicate the sounds but take a number of "Control Sounds" for comparison. I was there for Two weeks, I think I have a pretty good idea of what ambient sounds were present on the Ranch. I had a bevy of cameras that I had set up at various locations. The older analog camcorder was the only one that captured anything visually and audibly, hence the reason why your seeing/hearing only captures from that 'one' camera. Don't mistake the fact that because you simply see one perspective from solely one camera that I was not out and about with not only my other digital cameras, but also tri-field meters, RF meters, geiger counters and assorted other field goodies. I've been doing this for 25+ years... I've got a pretty good clue as to what to bring with me and what to look for when out in the field.


Please forgive me if I've missed someones query, I'm attempting to get to all of them. If some have not had their question answered it may be because it's already been covered and you probably will want to do a little research on your own through all the posts to find. Also don't forget that we have the original series of Mt. Adams videos located here:

AboveTopSecret.com And Robbie Williams Investigate UFOs at Gilliland Ranch (audio & video)

Johnny

[edit on 10/4/2008 by JohnnyAnonymous]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by Europa733

I do agree with waveguide, these "objects" were within the blurfo zone.




When shooting these events, we kept the settings the same albeit changing the zoom perspective a tad bit here and there. But for the most part the camera remained static and always aimed at the two trees as we were told this was the area to concentrate due to prior captures around the trees.

I was the one that set the zoom and focus daily and verified that the settings were the same (for consistency sake). I believe that I am in as a focal range using a 720nm IR filter as possible with the focal target being the Two Trees (which was near to "Infinity" on the lense). We are shooting at 1/5000 of a second.

It's going to be rather difficult for anyone that has not shot in Infrared (on a camcorder) during the daytime to understand what type of quality in a capture one will get unless they've actually "been there-done that". But it is what it is, and I can't change anything and that's why I'm just presenting the footage without any filtering or gamma adjusting (or any other filtering for that matter). It is the original footage (albeit compressed in a flash format by SkepticOverlord for the presentation).

I'm including below a frame from one of the captures that clearly shows a bug going by (probably several feet out from the camera) and one of the objects that is thought to be further away for comparison.



[edit on 10/3/2008 by JohnnyAnonymous]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by ZeroGhost
 


thanks you SO much ZG~!! That is what I've been looking for on this site! I'll definitely will be looking for your full analysis.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyAnonymous
 


Thanks for the reply JA~! Yes, I didn't see your earlier posting, my bad. I did read up on your entire extensive methodology; excellent job!! Working with a bunch of Engineers on a daily basis, methodology/repeatability is pretty much what I look for first in trying to solve a problem/issue. Awesome job Johnny!

I wasn't trying to discredit your experience in the field at all, just a mere observation I didn't see in comparison to the other control video. If I sounded like I was discrediting you, my deepest apologies!! I had written my post during my lunch break and got a little excited after reading up a bit.


The reason behind my posting about the control audio video was that I was playing the 'skeptic' side a bit, just to throw that out, in case it might have come up later.

Trust me, I deeply appreciate what the ATS Investigative Crew has done so far on this subject/location! Thanks!




posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 09:15 PM
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The problem with submiting material to skeptics is that many times video/audio/text material is not "skeptic ready".
It is hard for the average skeptic to train his thought to acquire material for a logical solution from rational paradigms in order to explain the irrational.
It is often hard to explain things that "appear to exist" but in reality they are not "registering" in full with the physical world.
We are supposed to capture information, picture and measure something that is not quite there. This is the biggest problem with ufology.

Here is a theory of mine about the sounds registering in the ATS video equipment and are displayed in the first post.
I also took in to consideration the video footage of the other segments of the ATS web-documentary.

Gilliland Ranch is located at:

Go ogle Map centered in Trout Lake, WA. (Washington, West Coast, US)
The place that received the ATS mission.


This is the map of Mt.Adams with Trout Lake. Link


This is the map of Mt.Adams with Trout Lake and Mt.Rainer. Link
Why Mt.Rainer? What happened there: Kenneth Arnold 1944

This is the map of Mt.Adams with Trout Lake and Mt.Adams back-side area with a legend I prepared showing in a overlayed schematic the explanation of my theory about the mysterious sounds.
Why the back area?
Many times in the videos we see the witnesses claiming the objects appear from behind or fade in to distance behind the mountain. Link

Legend Explanation:

A= Main traffic arteries of the global geodesic corridor. (Ley Lines?)
B= Hypothetical entrance points to the traffic arteries. Where solid objects are being transformed to objects with "less dence" mass or less dence mass tranforms in to even less dencer levels in order to navigate as non solid through the corridor system.
Check this report for insight in documented material by Dr. B. Cornet.
C= Field traps. Fluctuating fields emerging from the entrance points localy identified anomaly. Proper utilization of these fields enable navigation through the main global geodesic corridor and from there onwards to points across the solar system or the Galaxy.
The places I name as destinations in the pictures or properties that I describe in the theory are purely hypothetical and appear only for presentation reasons.

Information for instance of a solid object traveling through the geodesic corridors can be the equivalent of the same objects solid form in the real world.

Strangest theories exist for example in the quantum physics science realm. The above can as well be theoreticaly sound.

Now about the video:
The prevalent underlying sound we hear is very similar with thesound with what we hear from electronic media capturing devices when another electric field is in proximity. Either a large electromagnetic field was present from an activated device from the ATS team or the equipment captured what I term as "field trap" fluctuation in my theory.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by spacebot]

Sorry for any of the urls appearing this way, it is an ATS board problem. I tried to fix it but it won't accept the modification. Maybe a bug with the Address _javascript Hyperlink option, where the posted link contains another "URL" tag inside.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by spacebot]

Failed to mention the important part!


Corridors and every other part of this system i described somehow may have to interact with each other on other levels too. If I can capture a sound close to a field like this, and see no optical anomaly's (UFOs etc) it could mean the field is fluctuating because something is present (traveling through) in the local system in general and may or may not emerge in the same region with me.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by spacebot]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by anyone
reply to post by Dave Rabbit[/url]
 

Hey thanks Dave, I don't want to derail this thread but yes that interview is great. I was thinking about going back to listen to it again. It's been a while and I wasn't a member then. Dorothy is my muse when it comes to the supernatural lately. Lord Thumbs is right, James and Dorothy should meet I think they would have a lot to talk about... especially this mysterious sound comparison. Maybe you can contact her and send a copy of the sound for her to listen to. ?


I will forward it to Frank Longo who has Dorothy's personal contact information. I have a phone number for her, but do not want to disturb her by phone. I will report back when I hear from Frank and/or Dorothy.

Dave



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall
But I do have a question to Johnny...to me this sounds like an internal sound from the recorder.


Sorry M...... we have solved the issue. Johnny just got back from the Doctor's office..... the noise is from the wheels spinning in his brain.


I love all these questions. If YOU knew Johnny as well as I do, going on 100 Shows and a tad over 15 months, thousands of hours, etc., you would know that Johnny NEVER, repeat NEVER leaves Anything To Chance.


Dave



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 10:00 PM
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reply to post by Dave Rabbit
 



Something to consider---When watching the "Capturing The Light" DVD, Dorothy states that many have come and experienced with her, "then moved on to do their own work", and right after she says that, there is some footage that James captured, with him commenting. So at least from the video, it sounds like James may well have actually BEEN friends, or studied the phenomena with her at one point.







 
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