ATS and Robbie Williams UFO Investigation: Round Two of Gilliand Videos

Now back to Johnny's IR video capture(s) :

I do not pretend to make a very rigorous and mathematicaly accurate
calculation in what you are about to read. I was just curious enough to make a few (not so) wild estimations regarding the flying seed hypothesis.

To the math heads, please correct me if I am wrong as I am an ex marine biology student.

Now, we have to keep in mind that what we watch in the videos is not an exact retranscription of reality, lens distorsions like the "effet barrilet" just to name one (in french, don't know the exact term in english sorry) can play tricks on us. That is why it is sometimes difficult to estimate trajectories.

Here is a good representation of the "effet de distorsion en barrilet" :

i263.photobucket.com...

And a video (the meteor should go straight) :

s263.photobucket.com...

i263.photobucket.com...

Now, let's see what we got :

Johnny's hand and nails and a seed. Ok, since his nail was almost facing the
camera, I figured it would be the best reference point in terms of measurements since I do not know exactly which kind of seed it is and how big it could be. So I took a semi "wild" guess in estimating the size of the seed :



Now back to the video that was shot by our beloved Johnny on Aug 15th @
03:15 pm :




Our thing is flying from right to left, everyone can notice that it does get
smaller in size as it travels down the screen. Sorry you guys, I had to use the metric system. It doesn't seem to follow a straight line which is not a problem for a seed blown by the wind or an insect but remember what I said earlier about distorsions. And since I am not an optical & image expert, I do not know if it is due to distorsion or not. (I do not think so)

Now let's name the avg size of our object on the screen X4.

X4 = 9 mm

so

ab (216 mm) / X4 = 24
24 * a'b' = 1296 mm or 1.296 m or 51.0236 inch or 4.252 feet

1.2960 / 2 = 0.648 m (per sec)
0.648 * 3600 = 2.33 km/h or 1.45 mph

Our object would be traveling at approximatively 1.5 mph without taking an error margin but even if you mulitplicate by 2 or more, you would still remain within the flying domain of these seeds

More seriously, if someone can calculate the distance separating the seed (if it's one) from the camera + defining the blurfo zone to see if it matches would be a good thing. And it would most definitly put the final nail on the coffin of this capture to proceed to the next one.

Cheers,
Europa aka Buck




[edit on 7-10-2008 by Europa733]

Originally posted by Europa733

Our thing is flying from right to left, everyone can notice that it does get
smaller in size as it travels down the screen. Sorry you guys, I had to use the metric system. It doesn't seem to follow a straight line which is not a problem for a seed blown by the weed or an insect but remember what I said earlier about distorsions. And since I am not an optical & image expert, I do not know if it is due to distorsion or not. (I do not think so)

Now let's name the avg size of our object on the screen X4.

X4 = 9 mm

so

ab (216 mm) / X4 = 24
24 * a'b' = 1296 mm or 1.296 m or 51.0236 inch or 4.252 feet

1.2960 / 2 = 0.648 m (per sec)
0.648 * 3600 = 2.33 km/h or 1.45 mph

Our object would be traveling at approximatively 1.5 mph without taking an error margin but even if you mulitplicate by 2 or more, you would still remain within the flying domain of these seeds

More seriously, if someone can calculate the distance separating our object from the camera + defining the blurfo zone to see if it matches would be a good thing. And it would most definitly put the final nail on the coffin of this capture to proceed to the next one.

This is by far the most impressive post I read so far and what I was hoping (And expecting) from some of our members. I'm giving you some major "applaud points" for all your hard work.. and look forward to others taking notice of the in-depth science and math that was used... You Sir are the reason why we openly presented our trips captures for dissemination and intelligent reasoning....

The examples you provided are what we call either the "Pincushion" effect or a "barrel effect". These seem to be tied in with what appears to be on both the photos and videos you referenced and are from either a "wide-angle" or a "Fish-Eye" lens which both are notorious for creating such "stretched-like" look/feel. Neither of such lenses were used in any of our captures.

Also, I'd like to ask where the 18-30mph wind from the NorthWest fits into the equation you provided? One would think that factor would certainly have some effect in the calculations.

I eagerly await to read more from not only you but our other members.
On a personal note, did you by chance happen to view this on a large screen? My last view was on a 60", I'd like to hear your view on this particular capture, and play around with the gamma (or contrast/brightness). The reason why I asked is that in your post you mentioned that you didn't notice any difference in size, and when we viewed this on the larger 60" screen it seems to contradict that train of thought... My hopes is that you might be able to share more light on why that might be or at least explain if this is some type of optical illusion (created by some unknown).. Heck if you don't have a large screen available burn the file to disc and take it to an electronics outlet or SportsBar where it might be able to be viewed "Full Screen"

Thanks again Buck.. so far (in my opinion), yours is the leading contender for an explanation to what this particular thing might be.. excellent work!

Johnny




[edit on 10/7/2008 by JohnnyAnonymous]

I'm just starting to watch and listen to the tapes and I say they are very interesting.

I liked the one tape where it actually sounds like an old Indian chanting then you hear the tom toms drum at 3:31-2 then if you stop and start the tape quickly over and over you can with patience catch the 2 black objects fly over the two trees.

I believe the problem is the ships move way to fast to be picked up or seen you have to stop/start many times before you catch them. I also saw another object but I am having trouble recapturing the time and tape.

That noise isn't sound from the ship/ufo.... completely different sound. What I am getting from the tape is when the sound is heard you can hear an airplane sounds like a small one. I think our military is sending out that sound from that small plane and trying to get a frequency pitch that might down a ship if they can, just a thought.

These tapes are amazing and I will continue to go through them.

I believe this location needs extensive investigation from what i see it looks to be a very active area.

The trees you used are very good for reference you should continue to use that area.

All I can think of for what could cause the sounds is it sounds like some kind of feedback to me.
Its possible the recording picked up feedback from someone monitoring the recording. Did anyone with loud headphones or speakers stand near the microphones? Its quite possible its the mic feeding back from contact with a speaker or headphones or even another camera with microphone.
Let me know your setup and Ill be able to tell you if it was anomalous sound or not, I produce music and apprentice at a recording studio so Im pretty good with audio engineering.
Thanks!
But yeah summing up it just sounds like feedback to me.

Originally posted by chris_stibrany
All I can think of for what could cause the sounds is it sounds like some kind of feedback to me.
Its possible the recording picked up feedback from someone monitoring the recording. Did anyone with loud headphones or speakers stand near the microphones? Its quite possible its the mic feeding back from contact with a speaker or headphones or even another camera with microphone.

I agree with most of what you suggest. But the Camcorders had no Outboard audio being heard/presented. No additional devices such as microphones or headphones were attached. No lines were looped in and out of one another. The camcorder was as if anyone in a store had picked it up and started recording (albeit it had an 720nm Infrared filter attached which would do nothing to affect the audio).

Johnny

Some very interesting Videos to say the least. Also watched the A&E Paranormal State "info-drama" on you tube, also interesting.

Your sounds are a bit of an enigma. Keep in mind the onboard mic on your camera is simply a diaphragm, a magnet and some coils or wire. They are influenced by two things, magnetic phenomenon that interfere with the magnet, and vibrations that move the diagphram.

You have captured one of these two most likely. You may have inadvertantly caught some form of vibration below normal human hearing, harmonic/seismic/volcanic(Consider the area you are in in regards to volcanics). This sort of virbation can be captured when transferred through different mediums to the capture source(a camera tripod for example) when a resonance is reached.

The other option is an electro magnetic event. The A&E equipment is a possible source, practically everything today is a source of electromagnetic energy, even my daughters ipod. Proximity to a source is one form of interference, but also consider that EM can be directional. You arent close to the source, but you may be standing in the intended location of the EM target.

Going back to Seismic sources, many seismic events are considered to have electromagnetic precursors. The double Whammy indeed.

The geology of the area raises alot of questions. If you are sitting over an iron deposit you can get all sorts of bizarre EM interference with equipment and even the tried and trusted compass.

If you revisit the site for further study, I would consider EM and seismic detection as definite equipment to bring.

One other thing, have you tried playing the sound back at different speeds, faster and slower? This may reveal something, especially if it is a rogue mechanical source.

Sorry if ive covered anything someone else has posted, theres alot in this thread and I havent had a chance to read all of it!

Gaderel

Originally posted by Nohup

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
as for the video, pity there is no way of having the camera facing a weather monitoring station display at the same time, showing wind speed and direction. just to know for sure that the flight was against the wind at the time....

I guess this just goes to show how difficult it is to really consider all the variables before heading out into the field and setting up cameras. The result is similar to what you get from your typical "Ghost Hunters" episode. Odd things that might or might not have conventional explanations, but can't be explained because the set-up is flawed and a lot of the environmental variables are not taken into account.

Of course, in the field, it's almost impossible for every single little thing to be controlled. But a simple thing like having a synchronized stereo camera setup to do triangulation seems like a basic thing to consider if you're really going to do a serious video work like this. After all, how many times on this very site have photos been presented and debated, and no decent analysis can be done because there's just not enough information there to work with? How many times does it have to be said that photos or videos alone are extremely lousy pieces of evidence unless they're backed up by other evidence, whether that's multiple images from different viewpoints, or (in the best case scenario) hard physical evidence causally linked to the images?

I mean, really, aside from the source not being anonymous

, what makes these videos any better than your average YouTube clip of some random light in the sky?

[edit on 7-10-2008 by Nohup]

I've seen a few posts like this in both threads. Quite honestly what do you want? This, as mentioned, was a preliminary investigation. It wasn't a full fledged, six man fifteen camera, along with every other piece of measuring equipment experimental observation. johnny and Co. are graciously presenting us with what they recording on their preliminary investigation, meant only to see if something really was happening up there. They may go back with more equipment,study more variables and try different techniques.(That's what i'm guessing,and hoping for ) And honestly...comparing this preliminary examination with random youtube videos? wow, that's a slap in the face to johnny and co. I guess what I'm really trying to say from my opinion: If you think you can do better on a preliminary investigation(instead of armchair investigation) go do it! show us how it's done! otherwise,take what we have here for what it's worth, preliminary evidence that there might be something to what is supposedly going on up there, and that hopefully there's enough evidence of strangeness to warrant a further indepth investigation next season to expand on what's been captured so far. the gall some people have being so rude to those who actually go out there and do the researching is just unbelievable sometimes.

/rant off

by the way as and aside i guess, johnny i've gone through both threads and i dont think i've found an answer to my one question earlier in this thread( I understand your limited time so no biggie really) were there any dogs there during your stay? i ask because i believe it's the first video of the strange sound, part of the sound at one point sounds like either dogs or coyotes making a kind of growling noise.

Hi Johnny,

Since you did not use a TAMS (Transportable Automated Meteorological Station) in this preliminary investigation, we cannot rely on the weather data you provided because it would be a methodological bias. In this same thread, I stated that I would not rely on TAMS if an object "seems" to be at a higher altitude.

Let's assume that our probable seed is neither far or much higher than your IR VC then in this perticular case, TAMS would probably be able to give out more reliable data. (with a fluxgate compass)

I will have a chance next week to watch the videos on a proper (pro) screen
Mine isn't even flat you know. (JA's gonna kill me 4 that)

Originally posted by JohnnyAnonymousThanks again Buck..

My pleasure.

Oh, I've got a cool plastic bag flight over Tokyo at night.

s263.photobucket.com...

i263.photobucket.com...

I even have a wannabe UFO plastic bag or balloon in my collection :

s263.photobucket.com...

i263.photobucket.com...

That said, I would sure appreciate to watch more of your footage because it is very interesting and pedagogical from my perspective. (u2u ?).

Thanks again for sharing it with us.

Cheers,
Buck the ever unsatisfied


[edit on 10-10-2008 by Europa733]

I just watched the videos.. Someone tell me where to listen to these crazy sounds.. Also in the second video did someone say something about a hummingbird???

Incredible! Incredible!!

I seem to recall JohnnyAnonymous saying that he captured some video footage of "Orbs" during his stay there - was it anything like these?

[edit on 12-10-2008 by GoldenAge]

Interesting thread. Thank you, Johnny Anonymous and others for your efforts.

The mystery sound clips largely seem to be RTTY signals to me. Radio telegraph is a more common name. Many, many, many variations of these sounds exist, and the military is a big user of RTTY. There is also much more advanced but somewhat similar technology in use I believe. Having dabbled with electronic devices for a long time, I can tell you that under the right conditions many electronic devices will pick up unwanted RF transmissions. Hell, you only need an antenna, a ground, a set of headphones and a diode or transistor to make a crude radio receiver. With the complex integrated circuits of today, it seems plausible to me that you might be receiving a high powered RTTY-like signal on your camcorder audio. You could even possibly be getting the second or third harmonic of such a transmission. I have heard radio transmissions on a telephone before. Now, what do these RTTY signals sound like? Like I said, they have an almost infinite variety, but the link below will let you hear a few dozen examples. Listen to several and try to match our unknown sound. A few seem close to me. Many sound like morse code, but many do not. (try TE 3B8, VP9, VK9N and XE to name a few on the world map)

An excellent job at the ranch. Great thread. Keep up the good analysis folks.

160 meter RTTY sound files click on "160 meter sound files"








[edit on 10/12/2008 by TheAvenger]

reply to post by JohnnyAnonymous


threads gone quiet....

any conclusions as yet johnny? any further investigations?

would be a shame that from your efforts your still sitting their scratching your head........ although in saying that, ANY experiance is one more knotch on your life belt..... and u cant question that

Is that all there is from the trip or is there more to come?

All of this was fascinating and well done but in the end its just an intrigue.

There still no way of saying what it was or trully ruling out things like blurred natural objects as you showed with the cottonwood.

The camera used was very nice and everything but in order to actually identifiy things at that range you would really need to be using a telescope with capture feed running through to a laptop. Not sure how much that sort of rig costs, budget level wouldnt be that much more than a good vidcam I doubt though. That would at least give a shot at some very high def, high zoom detail shots which video cameras just arent able to provide.

The sounds I have no idea, they sound odd but then again im not sound specialist and nothing actually appears to be making them.

The area seems of better inetrest but I think the only way to get anything solid from a study is with much more powerful equipment, IR, maybe some thermal images, a study of the mountain and area, Im not sure what else but im sure theres plenty. Obviously I know all that stuff costs $$$ so im not suggesting you should, im just saying its pretty hard to know what exactly that place has going on without more indepth data.

Anyway good work all the same was very interesting.

I know this is going to sound weird but here goes. My son and I have heard those sounds before at our friends ranch in the middle of nowhere. When they came to the climax of the loop if you will there was a flash then nothing. No insects no wind nothing and we where in the middle of a hay feild.. Can you guys remember if anyone experienced this at the times when the sounds come on the cam? I would be very interested to know.
Also my kids and I wanted to go to Mr Gilliands last summer and had contacted him, but when we got ready to go, my hubs employeer decided not to pay his vacation pay. so we didnt get to go! We where very upset as we have seen things around here where we live in northern california and even when we went to mount shasta. So I am ohhh so glad you guys did this and we where able to see the place and some of what you caught.
Thanks a bunch will be sure to show them all when they decide to come out of their friday night hibernation

Originally posted by enlighten2012
reply to post by JohnnyAnonymous

 

any conclusions as yet johnny? any further investigations?

The footage is out in 3rd party hands for analysis, this is the part of the investigation game known as "Hurry Up And Wait" part that no one enjoys. Although the patience level of 99.99% of a waiting populace wont be able to handle the realities of the time involved, it still has to go through the rigors of scrutiny and research.

Originally posted by NephraTari
Is that all there is from the trip or is there more to come?

Yep, that's pretty much it. There are a few little things that are really hard to see and not worth showing as they would get lost in the compression/conversion.


Johnny

I was hoping you had more night object footage which would include the claims of lights that stop and or get 10 times brighter which would rule out man made or natural objects

reply to post by Zudrummer


Ah me too but they are going back for an in depth investigation. Lets hope they can get some more then

Originally posted by JohnnyAnonymous

Originally posted by enlighten2012
reply to post by JohnnyAnonymous

 

any conclusions as yet johnny? any further investigations?

The footage is out in 3rd party hands for analysis, this is the part of the investigation game known as "Hurry Up And Wait" part that no one enjoys. Although the patience level of 99.99% of a waiting populace wont be able to handle the realities of the time involved, it still has to go through the rigors of scrutiny and research.


Johnny

i'm renovating my house at the moment so am a pro at the 'hurry and wait game'

i'm sure all can appreciate the time scrutiny takes. wouldent expect anything less......