Bailouts - Why Whining Americans Don't Get It

What people seem to be missing here is the fact that no matter who is at fault, and both Democrats and Republicans share that, we are where we are and have to deal with it.

People need to be able to see the big picture here. Yes you may be angry about the bailout and how we got here, but that doesn't change the fact that we are here and had better do something about it.

While I have half a mind to say "let it happen, no bailout," the fact is, without some sort of bailout our economy is going to fail. We can be angry at the banks, Wall Street, the politicians, heck even the Easter Bunny, but anger doesn't get to the solution.

My though is, we bail out as best we can, even though it's very distasteful to do so, and make the needed changes to be sure this can't happen again. I don't believe Socialism is the answer by any stretch of the imagination although the bailout is perilously close to it.

The answers? Those are for people much smarter than I. If people want to sit around screaming about who set the fire rather than throwing water on it, they can't be surprised when their house burns down around them.

To put the bail out in simpler terms....

You have a colleague that is addicted to gambling (stock market). This individual repeatedly gambles away his own assets, then turns to his peers and says, "If you give me x amount of money I can increase that and return you your money plus more (dividends)" So this goes on for years and other gamblers join the throng. Well as everyone knows, eventually every gambler becomes overconfident, pushes his luck and loses it all, his money and his peers.

This is what the stock market is, gambling. In any game of chance, some you win, some you lose. The way to fix the addiction to gambling is not to give the gamblers more money but to let their supply of assets go dry. Yes this will hurt those people who have trusted the dealer (FED) when they were dealing from the top and bottom of the deck, but, again, that's gambling.

This bail out is a short term fix. All it does is give the most addicted players in the game more money to lose. And lose they will, because they have already shown that they cannot handle the game. In the long run, all you do is give more paper to the rats so they can make their nest.

If the economy fails, and it will despite this so called bailout, we could in theory go back to a more sane way of doing things.

For example:

1) With any luck the Super stores will go away and the return of the Mom & Pop stores that hire locally, buy locally, and believe in taking care of their employees.

2) Communities come together to actually support one another where the people that need help get it.

3) Doctors are willing to help others (follow the hippocratic oath) instead of worrying about the new car dujour or the big house on the hill.


In short, a more simple and honorable way of life where the PEOPLE benefit from their hard work, not some stock holding gambler. Will it be difficult to get there? Yes. Will there be predators? Yes. Will the community take care of the predators? As only a true community can. Am I overly optimistic? Perhaps, but I maintain a belief in the spirit of independence that made this country what it was.


I can only hope that my belief is not in vain....

reply to post by TXPatriot38

Kudos. You do get it and I am happy you are aware of the real issues here. The market is inflated artificially already. All the bailout will do is prolong the inevitable crash. And the higher it is allowed to inflate the longer a fall it will be.

Basically, this bailout is very much like what happened leading up to and immediately after the "Great Depression" when farmers were turning under food crops to keep the prices up. People starved, the farmers went under, and now we have conglomerate farms own by companies like ADM and Burlington, making Frankenfood, genetically modified for best yields at the price of good health and nutrition.

And yes, communities will support their own during crises and tough times. It is past time for the government to stop meddling in free markets. How can they be free if the government is constantly exercising control over them?

Just say, "NO!" to a bailout plan.

reply to post by Sargo


I disagree with you. I don't see how the bail out will help the economy in a short term or even long term.

If you bail them out our dollar value will fall big time tv.... this makes us to have to work more and more for a decades to come to just get our economy just to where it was before the fall, which is not what it originally was.

The bail out is not for American it's for the ceos and top people so they can get out of the U.S and build a business in another country that won't have much effect from our economic fall.

I think we already are going to have a economic crash no matter what. This bail out is just for the ceo and top people that caused these problems in the first place to get out of the country and start a business in another country that wont get effected from our fall.

This is what they want. If you know economics you know a bail out is no solution and will not help at all to fix our economy it only helps to delay the problem a bit it's like you have a water pipe that has made a small hole leaking water and you fix it by just putting your chewing gum on it to patch it up but evey month this hole gets bigger and bigger and then it's noticeable to everyone then you ask everyone that you need there money to go out and buy some more gum so you can chew the gum and then use the gum to cover the big hole.

This bail out is not solution and doesn't even help. If they want a fast solution they should bring back the troops and cut military funding we can't afford the military to keep running since we don't have money to back them up.

This pull out will help our economy the oil would drop down and everything will reverse slowly.

The reason we go into this place was heavily spending our gov did which caused all these banks and companies to go in the red.

So we need to revert what we increased like the military defense increased spending on. We need to cut back on the latest stuff we grant a bigger check for.

So I don't see where this bail out will help us in the long run??? I know it will help the ceos and top people to go to another country and invest there paycheck to start building a business overseas before the fall of our economy.

So I really disagree with anyone that thinks this bail out plan is good and should be passed.

If you took any economic class which I have you would not understand how this bail out will help in a long run??

it's a short patch that would last a week or 2 but then would fade because we are not fixing the guts of the problem.






[edit on 27-9-2008 by computerwiz32]

Originally posted by SteveR
We are not bailing out the elite and forgetting you exist. It's very simple, by keeping the market working as it should we make sure you get everything you need when you need it. Sure there have been failures but this is nothing compared to how things could be. Without the economy, life as you've come to know it would not exist. If we give you $7000 each as someone suggested and let the system fail, you will fail.

Less whining and more intelligent thinking is needed here.

Steve,

All I can says is wow.

I would greatly appreciate your informing us lowly unintelligent people how you are above us and how we do not "get it."

Tell us how the current system is working for us and has our has our best interests at heart. Tell us how grateful we should be to accept none of the rewards, but all of the risk. Please tell me why I should bailout someone who risked it all and lost it all, when I did the right thing by living within my means and have gotten out of debt.

Please inform us so that we can sleep better at night knowing that we are working daily to pay off banker's debts through high income taxes.

Inform us so that I will feel better about placing my children into the system to work and consume. They will enjoy handing over 40% of the income to our masters.

Please grace us with your wisdom, your sources, as well as your credentials since you are clearly in the know as far as these complex thoughts about how the economy works.

I think we could use some good information to direct us to the path of economic enlightenment.

Please use clear and concise verbiage so that we can fall to our knees in appreciation of this knowledge that will empower us and give us prosperity.

I eagerly await your facts with a newly sharpened pencil with which I plan on taking copious volumes of notes.

Until this glorious information arrives I have notified my congressmen that I am opposed to any bailouts at all.

I do not make enough money to have a 401k, so I lose no retirement. I have no savings in the bank to lose. I have known since I was young that I will work for my entire life and will not have material luxury. I would rather enjoy a spartan existence and make sure my children will know how to survive and know how not to live beyond their means.

There was once a time when crooks would go to jail instead of being bailed out.

Isn't it strange how the executives of the companies who are in need of a bailout were able to cash their paychecks even though their companies are failing? Even funnier is that their paychecks are CONSIDERABLY larger than my entire family's paychecks put together.

"no one can make a million dollars honestly" William Jennings Bryan

xmibx

This thread is proof of how poorly this has been explained. Some of these posts show the person posting has not a clue. Sounds like many are expressing opinions with being bothered to even know what is happening.

Bailout the Banks is being presented as if the money would go to the Exec's personally. They don't own the Banks, they work for them. The stockholders own the Banks. You own them through your retirement funds and investments in many cases.

Another bit of nonsense is completely forgetting that we, represented by our government would then own the properties involved. They did not just disappear on a UFO to Mars. The homes and properties still exist. We will clearly get most of this money back in the future and possibly a profit before it is over.

It is also being greatly exaggerated what would happen if nothing were done. To the point of obscene. Some people just get off on gloom and doom it would appear.

OP, you did a lousy job of explaining and seem to be trolling for some reason? Too much coffee?

reply to post by SteveR


what i think ol stevey boy here doesn't understand is that in true free market economy, when some part of it fails then another steps in and takes its place. its called capitalism.

it may take some time for it to happen but if the economy is a free market economy, then eventually someone or many someones will take the place of the failure.

let the bastards fail when they mess up. in time, it will fix itself.

reply to post by xman_in_blackx


I think he doesn't know much all he knows what is going on CNN where they have economic advisers explains this bail out in a wrong way.

They explain we need this bail out because these banks and companies are big ones so if they don't get bail out all those workers become unemployed this will then slow down the stock market causing other weak companies to fall also it the become a domino effect.

The solution they think that the 700 billion will reset this so it takes all debts off and starts the companies to have a second change kinda like if you owe someone 500 bucks and don't have it then this grows to 10,000 and you have no way to pay it back you go out and try to raise free money that would be 10,000 to cancel the debt allowing you start over.

They think that if we do this bail out it will keep the marketing running allowing the market

So we Americans get the bad debt and pay those peoples bills. This would stabilize the market.


This only works if your in your own world. Economics plays a big part in this.

This dosen't fix the problem but makes a patch this patch gets faded over time.

So the problem stays there and dosen't get fixed or even help to fix a small amout of the problem.

The problem was the War and heavily funding military project.

I just heard lately we just issued 1 billion bucks for a military project to make a lazer weapon.

I mean come on we spend more then what we have . This is the problem we need to fix.


I mean if I give you 7 million bucks and you go crazy your like omg I am a milliar andthen you go out buying lambos and huge mansions you don't know that you have to pay insurance monthly these items have a monthly fee and if you don't have a job to cover these monthly fess you at some point will be broke because you can't afford the product in a long run you may have that 5 million bucks but that car and house insurance will eat up that money quickly if you don't have a job that would generate that 5 million dollar income.


this is what is happening our gov is spending crazy and keeps doing it then we are going to bail out these people without even having the money we are increasing our debts that will owe.

this bail out will grow our debt and lower our value of the the dollar.

if you expense = your income you then break even.

so this bail out will not do anything really but help those ceos unless they do agree on watching the ceos and any top people form profiting from this then they wont get a benefit from this.

reply to post by Blaine91555


I somewhat do agree with you. I know the ceo is not getting all the 700 billion.

You kinda wrong on share holders owning the banks it's true to an extent they don't call the shots they mostly invest in the company and in return you get a paper of the amount you own. the true owner is the people that have aboove 51% of the shares these are the true owners.

This bail out bail out these companies and banks this would still mean the ceo gets a big sum of money even though they are the ones responsible for this fall.

When the gov gets these properties they get a deal with bad value .


os it's like if the property is worth 10 bucks and you give them 5,000 for it since they were asking 5,000 but the value of the property is 10 bucks.

you then get this property and you find out the blue value of this was low like 100 bucks.

you done a bad investment but hope that when the house market picks up so would the value so you hold on those assets until the market picks up this would then be possible to get a profit I mean if the market picks up you can sell the property for 200,000
and the difference between 5,000 and 200,000 is a 195,000 profit.

so it's a gamble on getting these bank and company assets.



You said "We will clearly get most of this money back" this is not solid...

you sound like if we do this bail out and get these assets we are in for sure we will recover the bail out money .

When this is not true that it is a for sure it's more of a gamble this only will happen if the market picks up and keeps growing making the businesses we own to pick up business making income and we then for sure could recover and also if the value of the assets pick up then this would be a true statement but didn't like how you put it because it sounds you think this is a for sure thing which is not it's a gamble I mean if the market picks up then yes your right but if it doesn't pick up then we made a bad investment since we just not didn't make money on the investment but put our own money into it and get nothing at the end .

so it's more of a gamble doing this bail out. I differ on this I believe we are already in for a crash if this is so then this bail out wont do anything since the assets wont gain any value.

I have heard chase may be next to fall.

So could you explain how this bail out will work in a deep detailed way.

don't just say omg ATS memebers are just stupid and don't know anything we need the bail out to make the market to move.

any statements like that shows lack of knowledge. These statements wont help any.


I want someone to prove me wrong I know I might not be right but with having classes in economics in college and studying accounting in college I still don't see how this could help up.

I do understand your point but it's nearly a gamble it depends on the health of the economy that would make this bail out a good thing or a bad thing.

and I would like them to make sure ceos get nothing since it's their job to prevent these type of things.



[edit on 27-9-2008 by computerwiz32]

TextIf the economy fails, and it will despite this so called bailout, we could in theory go back to a more sane way of doing things.

reply to post by TXPatriot38
I would hope so however I suspect this is "another staged crisis (problem) to nuture a "reaction" so the BIG BOYS can offer us "the solution".

The following is from David Icke's Children of The Matrix and was written about eight years ago.

"Every time you put a pound or dollar in a bank, you are giving them the right to lend ten pounds or dollars they do not have. This system of so-called "fiat" money and "fractional reserve lending", means that banks can create money out of thin air whenever they choose. The deluge of debt, with which people, businesses, and governments constantly battle, is this same fresh-air "money".

Personal debt, national debt, "Third World" debt -all of it. None of this really exists, except as figures on a computer screen. Think about the suffering, poverty, and death that these crushing debts cause every day and yet they are just figures on a screen written by a clerk in a bank. Nothing more. Imagine how the world would change if money was created interest free? They tell you that this can't be done because that's what they want you to believe. Of course it can. Both

President Kennedy and President Lincoln began to issue interest-free money. What else do these two men have in common?


Governments could create their own interest-free money and remove instantly the need to pay fantastic sums in interest to the private banks. Isn't that simple common sense? Then why does no government or major opposition party ever suggest it

Answer:

(a) the Illuminati who control the banks control the governments and the hierarchies of the major political parties

(b) most of the lower politicians in these parties are stunningly uninformed about the money system.

The head of the Federal Reserve is currently the Illuminati Satanist Alan Greenspan (Bil, TC, CFR), who took over from Paul A. Volker (Bil, TC, CFR). You get the picture. Greenspan attends the rituals at Bohemian Grove and, according to Phillip Eugene de Rothschild, is high up in the Illuminati ritual hierarchy. The "Fed" decides the interest rates in the US, a fact that has a fundamental effect on the world economy because of the interdependency the Illuminati have built into their system.

It makes centralized control so much easier if you have key power centers where the decisions have a global effect, and frontmen like Greenspan ensure that one individual holds such power. It is worth noting that the first policy change made by the UK government of Tony Blair (Bil) was the announcement by his Chancellor of the Exchequer, Gordon Brown (Bil), that interest rates would no longer be set by the elected government, but by the Illuminati's Rothschild-controlled Bank of England, run by its governor, Eddie George (Bil).

These homes and businesses were bought with "loans" of fresh-air "money" from the banks. In doing so, the borrowers agreed that the banks were entitled to those homes and businesses if they did not keep up the payments. The depression, created by the banks, now gives the banks the right to confiscate all that real wealth -houses, land, business property and assets -in exchange for loaning nothing more than figures on a screen. In short, the banks make lots of loans in stage one and then withdraw so much money from circulation that there is not enough to pay them back

This ensures that they can legally steal the real wealth of the people. This is what smart-suited, and mostly thoroughly ignorant, "economics correspondents" on the television news call the "natural economic cycle".

There is nothing natural about it. The whole thing is a scam. The fishing line is cast in stage one, the "boom", and then reeled in during stage two, the "depression". This cycle of manipulation has been played out for hundreds and even thousands of years, back to the banking operation of the Knights Templar and to Babylon and beyond. This is the cycle that has sucked the real wealth of the world into the hands of the tiny few and it still goes on.

Now the Illuminati are planning to complete their financial control of the human race with a world central bank and one global electronic currency. This bank would make all the major financial decisions affecting every country. The currency would eventually bring an end to physical "cash" and all other currencies. While I was writing this book, a UK paper called Metro reported on December 20th 2000 that Singapore was moving to a cashless society by 2008.

In an article "Beginning of End for Cash", the paper revealed that Singapore (a British-controlled Illuminati "country") was phasing in "e-money" and would insist that everyone used it. Financial transactions would be made using money stored on computer chips, it said, and cash will be a thing of the past as money changed hands electronically using digital pulses transferred through mobile phones, hand-held computers and even watches. This is just the phase before they bring in micro-chip implants for everyone.

Mayer Amschel Rothschild, the founder of the Rothschild banking dynasty, said: "Give me control of a nation's currency and I care not who makes the laws." This has been attributed to another Rothschild also. The fewer currencies there are, the more control you can have over the money system. This is why the Euro has been introduced within the European Union and the pressure is mounting for Canada to take the US dollar.

These are stepping-stones to the world currency. Under the Euro, for example, a group of unelected bankers at the European Central Bank in Frankfurt (where the Rothschild banking dynasty began) have control over the interest rates and financial policy for the whole of Europe. Anyone ever questioned that? Or even bothered to find out in the first place?

The next stage is to create the World Central Bank in which Illuminati bankers would set interest rates and financial policy for every country on the planet.

"Free trade" is stealing the planet The Anunnaki-Illuminati have worked ceaselessly to make all countries dependent on the world financial and trade system, which they created and control

Scarcity = dependency = control. Abundance = choice = freedom".

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

I don't see how these what is now considered to be near worthless pieces of paper will make us money...if they were capable of making the owner money, the banks would be holding them....or cashing them in.

these securities are susposedly rebundled packages of mortgages, some are good mortgages, many are the toxic arms and such.
well, doesn't matter I don't think which kind they are for most of the recent homebuyers. the mortgages are upside down, ours is by close to 25%, or at least that is what I am guessing by the information I've been able to gather.
the toxic arms are turning into monsters, the terms should have never been crafted the way they were. they were just about guarenteed a failure.
and, well, they are failing.

how long is the government gonna hold these securities? it seems like alot of these homeowners aren't holding out that long. the typical process is stop paying the bill, the holder of the mortgage foreclosure, the people move out, the home is sold for what you can get, and well...there is probably a loss.

seems to me, once there is a loss, well, that part of that bundles of securities would be laid to rest, at a loss.
are they gonna delay the foreclosure process, so the security doesn't die?
maybe they plan one delaying the sale of it till housing prices go up, but that would cause one heck of a housing crisis in this country, wouldn't it?
ya, there are some good mortgages in those bundles also, but, well, it's a gamble on how much is good, how much is bad. seems to me that the companies could cherry pick some and well...we'd get most of the bad.

there's no way that your can turn these worthless pieces of paper into something of value unless the mortgages they represent are paid. and that problem isn't being addressed.

reply to post by SteveR Every person that i have seen on TV or Internet that favors the Bailout ;wants us to be in fear ,just like Iraq and 911 .TWO phony sets of False Flags . Instead of giving the bankers what they want ,(do away with the Federal Reserve ,as JFK wanted to do,and guess who assassinated him ?) lets give all motgage holder a free ride and pay their mortgages off , the banks will get their money back and the economy will soar.The Bankers , Brokers,Insurance Companies , CNBC , Kudlow and Kraner (you know the loud mouth ) and all the associates of these money programs are full of crap and churning your accounts with their assessments of all the NYSE , NASDAQ,OTC ;They will find a company for any need you want ,and you can't see the money that is rolling in their pockets ,next to the oil companies who are legitimate .Another way to get them ,DO not buy a product unless you really need it ; You notice a ten dollar ($10 ) savings account as to pay taxes on that interest? Do you notice what interest you get on a pass book account ..You are subject to the Bushes ,Rockefellers ,and any other wealthy banker ,whom has made his money by sitting on his butt ,in a bank or Congress ,or the Military ,Check out General Myers ,the 911 Leader of the Military ;safely ensconced at GRUMMAN for 200,000 $$$ a ye ar and his pension besides ,, What do you think Cheney and Bush , BURN-anskey and Pal-son will get when they go.. sincerely Joe Bell

If you want more look Bohemian Place ? or Bilderberg

reply to post by Blaine91555



I believe that at least 98 percent of us here do not have retirement funds or investments. We are barely hanging on by the skin of our teeth and cannot even afford to see a doctor or insure a vehicle. Let alone have money left over to invest. PITY THE POOR STOCK HOLDERS. THEY SHOULD SUE THE BEJESUS OUT OF THE CEO'S WHO HAVE FLEECED THEM!!



[edit on 9-27-2008 by groingrinder]

reply to post by amfirst


Totally agree with you, just a few reminders:

- The fault of this mess doesn't fall solely on the Banks, and Financial Institutions, it also falls on the lap of greedy consumers, that spent, and borrowed, way above their capacity...

- On Wednesday, GM spent the last of it's credit line, on Friday it was Ford's turn, to run out of credit. These two are from memory only, I'm sure other big companies are running out of credit really fast.

If the Government doesn't act soon how many millions of jobs do these companies cut, not to mention the companies that are directly dependent, as subcontractors, of these companies health; also the local communities and small business, that live off the workers of those major companies...

Well Steve, I am a late comer to this discussion, but here goes.

Ok, assuming that we bailout "you" and your elite buddies, then we will be saddled not with 7000 dollars in debt, but a 7000 dollar loan with credit card interest that we can only pay on once a year.

So, we pass that debt on to our children, but wait, there's more. The bailout creates an entire new infrastructure, a department of homeland economics. Now, we have government regulators mucking everything up worse than it already is.

Oh, but don't let me stop their. While your tax burden grows in the form of your 7000 dollar per person (not per household) loan then the Chinese coming calling in all the marks because Americans aren't buying their poisonous crap.

Meanwhile. the idiots with the PHDs (piled higher and deeper) start fooling with the interest rates. This pushes the dollar lower and we again see crisis in the financial market.

Oh, but it ain't over! Now, we are in a war with the new Russian Empire, but we have no one to borrow cash from to fund the g******* thing so in a moment of desperation, the genius with the football launches a first strike.

About 45 minutes later, I put on my Road Warrior outfit.

Did I miss anything?

I will quit whining now.

OP,

Obviously you must have something to gain by this bailout

a bailout is NOT the answer

Complete abolition of the Federal Reserve System, AND return to Constitutional control of U.S. monetary policy for the U.S. Congress is the answer.

I'm just disturbed that the 700 billion is being handed over to the US treasury to use as they see fit. the US treasury is not a US Govt. owned institution. it's owned by international banks.

So I guess it took them 250 years but europe got their colony back. thats sorta what the buy out< I mean bail out, effectively does.

here's a nice grim picture of what is to come....if, of course the bailout doesn't happen.....
www.telegraph.co.uk...
scary stuff, if it's true, which it might very well be.
the dow dropping 3,000-4,000 points in just a few days...
kind of more 1930's stuff than your typical recession.
oh, and for the one who said they wanted to see such things happening, we have our first banker leaping to his death...

www.dailymail.co.uk...





[edit on 27-9-2008 by dawnstar]

I’m against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG. Instead, I’m in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a " We Deserve It" Dividend. To make the math simple, let’s assume there are 200,000,000
bonafide adults in the U.S. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman
and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up. So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00. My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a "We Deserve It" Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let’s assume a tax rate of 30%. Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam. But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000.00. What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads!

Put away money for college – it’ll be there

Save in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car – create jobs

Invest in the market – capital drives growth

Pay for your parent’s medical insurance – health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean – or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.
If we’re going to re-distribute wealth, let’s really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( “vote buy” ) economic incentive.

If we’re going to do an $85 billion bailout, let’s bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG – liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
Here’s my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn’t. Sure it’s a crazy idea that can “never work.” But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party! How do you spell "Economic Boom"?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC!! And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

To those who starred my post... Thank you. That was my first post to ATS and it is comforting to see it received well.


Blaine:

I do believe the bailout will go directly to the CEO's because they have their "Golden Parachutes" yes, some will go to the average stock holder, but not much. I understand this for what it is... A safety net for the wealthiest in the world, and an engineered fiasco to seize more for the FED. As for "We The People" owning the companies and assets that are acquired, we can buy property and not own it due to imminent domain. The bail out being pushed through despite the protests against it is proof enough for me that this is no longer a government of the people, but of the elites.


dawnstar:

Thank you for the link. I am sure the "economists" paint a bleak picture of what is to come, however, for those who have the where-with-all to get up and dust themselves off and make a living, this will be a knock down followed by a restart. As for the poor soul who saw no hope, I pray for those he left behind and would urge anyone who would contemplate this type of solution to this problem to seek deeper within themselves and find the good in the situation they find themselves in.