Bailouts - Why Whining Americans Don't Get It

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posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by computerwiz32
 


Do you seriously think that low of your fellow humans? You do not think that we can band together and restart without resorting to living in caves? Where do you work? Do you work in a factory? Have you ever worked in a factory? Have you ever worked in retail?

Most people in this country are doing mundane jobs that they hate, to keep these corporations running. I bet you I can run around and find a million people in less than a month that would be more than happy to get out of this "ratrace" of keeping this system running. Stop the same ol' clock in and clock out routine of their lives. Yeah, people learn to live with it, but most of us just find some kind of escape, such as drinking, gaming, watching TV. We are not all happy with the system. (btw, I currently am ok with it, but I could live with a change also)

So, why do you not think we can not go back to local communities, and smaller organizations. You know, a local company that builds toys, just for their own community ... maybe a town a few miles over has some corn they would like to trade with the toymakers. I seriously doubt we would just fall back to living in caves.




posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by AHostileMe
 


Let me say this.... it boils down to cost. We outsourced labor jobs to other countries. I am not being mean and saying we are stupid. I am saying it's fact.

it boils down to materials to build toy's... cars, and computers. If you notice todays market and see Microsoft xbox and many other electronics are not made in the U.S.

If the economy collapses we got back in cave man age we hunt food and say put to areas where there is food.

I don't think we can just have no economy and have people running machines and maintaining the machines without parts from other countries.

it boils down to materiel costs and if you can get in the U.S if not then I bet other countries wont allow a trade deal they want currency that is sitll valuable like euros.

You can't just tell people ok if you want to be a rocket scientist go over here your our new team at nasa go build a rocket.

You don't understand the market system on how companies build stuff . Once our economy falls you can't run a business so there is no way someone will work for you for free they need to feed there family's.

unless we pull together and organize who does what and work together which requires everyone to not be greedy which is impossible I think since I hear and see alot of crooks in our society.

I am just saying that we will be going back at those time building homes by lakes or animal herds. We mostly would go by lakes and rivers.

The reason is we can't afford to run factories to mass produce food and many other items.

most people work for something in return it could be a meal or money ect ect.

I just still don't see how U.S.A would get to that point since there are many crooks out there.

So I am not saying it because I hate Americans or anything like that I am saying we will be smarter then the cavemen but we are back at that era doing hunting clothing and building homes.

I don't see how you can get machines running when your broke.

like you suggested that we could start a toy factory in a small town to sell only to the town.

Well to make toys you need resources and money or something to trade on a daily bases.If you find resource in another country then they mostly would only accept money.



I am just saying it cost money you need someone to mine for raw materials for you to be able to make toys.

I am saying still to start a business like in a small town for only the town you need something to start off by offering people to work at your business in exchange a cooked meal or something like that.

but if you can't budge people to come work for you then how will you start such a business.


Your nothing thinking about value trades. You will be struggling for food when the economy falls.

When the economy falls the country goes broke. This means everyone can't buy anything.

they have to then hunt and sell food or something to start grounds on.

I am just saying we will start back in the cave man age and slowing build up from there.

we will start small towns. It all boils to everyone's attitude. If we don't plan on working together then we won't get anywhere we will hunt for food and have build homes and that would be the future life sytle.

The reason I don't think we can start off with small towns running is that we are broke and most of us rely on others since today's environment what we have is nothing but many millions of other people who helped to create it.

I mean computers, homes, meals, we even have restaurants drive thru fast food.

I am just saying if our economy falls most of US will be lost.

It's like having a a pet lion he grows with you and you feed him and he has nothing to worry about since he is feed without any worries. Once the owner has to let him go the lion then goes in the jungle lost dosen't know how to caught food for himself since he was born in a world that a man fed him now without knowing ow to caught food and what is food he is lost.

Today we have it good. Programmers don't need to understand 1010101001 which is what runs the machine they only use human works like if a=1 then make a cake ect.

we today rely on many people and the past who invented alot of stuff be we today never reinvent the wheel so we lost experience in making those so we only know the add ons.

I hope you understand what I am saying. I think we will have a hard time to cope with getting food since we will be hungry and no matter how smart you are if your starving you will not remember alot of things like math or anything you will only think you need to eat something.

I would ask would it be easy to think logically when your starving???

I am just saying homes we have today needs to be kept up to speed without money and limited resources we can't maintain our buildings which would decay/rott/ what ever you want to call it be the building gets old to a point it will collapse or be unsafe to live in.

the reason I say this is that you don't know how much work it goes into making things.

Building things and making things takes time. But in the meantime you need to eat,be warm , and have a shelter.

that is what human needs to servive. That is what we need to cover first before we can start settling down again to start factories and other stuff.

I mean imagine where you live that no one has money do you think the businesses in your area would still be running???

if they stop because everyone is poor then everyone will be hungry and starving. when you are starving and hungry and know there is no supply in your area you then have to move around to find food anything that would help kill your hunger because at some point you would only think about food where to get it . You then need a system to figure out how to store food. Then you can sell food now once people around you know your always going to have food they then don't have to worry about food this would then make free time for many people to focus on building homes and clothing then this slowly builds back up slowly towards our era now.

This is only if the economy crashes and we become broke.


[edit on 28-9-2008 by computerwiz32]



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 01:50 AM
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You're thinking inside the box. You are too stuck in today's market, the way the world runs right now. Think about it ...

Many factories are still in the United States, even though they packed up and left. We still have stuff here. It only needs to be cleaned up and powered on. I believe in the will of people to come together in times of crisis and work towards a common goal of bringing the world back online. However, it will be in a different light.

Who cares if we're broke? Who's going to suffer? The guys on Wall St will, that's who. Not everyone sits inside a house, waiting for their power to come on. We have guys who know how to run a power plant. We can resort to coal for a while if we have to. We have plenty of that in this country. People will remember how to do things we've been doing for thousands of years. It's not like every single person in this country lives for the stock market.

Who's going to suffer? Who's really going to be broken? I'll tell you. The current fearmongerers is all. The politicians, the millionaires. Who's going to survive? The common human being.

Let's paint some pictures, back to the coal, if you will. Johnny ex-coal miner from Eastern Ky says he can come up with some coal for the coal power plant a few miles up the road. He wants in exchange some food, because he is going to spend so much time in the mines. Billy ex-farmer has some corn and a few deers he shot in his field. He wants some power to keep his house cold during the hot summer days. He offers some food to Mr George ex-power company guy. Mr George takes some of that food and gives it to Johnny so that Johnny can continue to work on the coal.

Eventually, they find an easier way to exchange these items; maybe they exchange a metal coin that Mr Metal worker guy can make down at the shop. In the local village all the people in the area bring the goods that they can produce and sell in a local shop. Goods are given a price by the maker of said goods. You see, it's not really that hard to work out a new system, it may eventually end up the same way, but who knows, maybe this time around we will learn from history and not make the same mistakes. Maybe we don't start as high up the chain as electricity, but I have plenty of faith in us. Don't you?



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by SteveR
We are not bailing out the elite and forgetting you exist. It's very simple, by keeping the market working as it should we make sure you get everything you need when you need it. Sure there have been failures but this is nothing compared to how things could be. Without the economy, life as you've come to know it would not exist. If we give you $7000 each as someone suggested and let the system fail, you will fail.

The suits in Washington are doing the best thing for the people - in the long run. Less whining and more intelligent thinking is needed here.

Thank you


Suits...lately I have had this thought:

Thieves in nice clothes get bonuses, thieves in common clothes do time.

I think Ron Paul knows a bit more than you, and I dare say the
MANY economists that agree with him know more than you.

So while their is freedom of speech, you might qualify your
statements with some links to pertinent information to back
up your statements.

You sound EXACTLY like Hoover during the Great Depression.

We all know the road that moron took the US down, and
that is why you will find it hard to sell your advice.

Older ppl than you remember how this went down in 1929,
and if you go talk to one you might just learn a thing or two.

I was raised by my grand parents is why I knew to read about it,
and verify it, and prepare for it.

I suggest all who read this get ready for some dark days.

Wall Street crash of 1929



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 02:17 AM
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You call everyone whining americans because they bring up the issue that corrupt banks gambled there way into oblivion and the government is giving them free handouts of billions of dollars and theres people right now trying to bust there arse to find a job to feed there 2 year olds and find a place to live and they get overlooked.


Wow I can't believe you got stars for that crap, let alone +27 more.

1. corrupt banks that gambled their way into oblivion? What were talking about here is a few percent shot of total assets, not gambled into oblivion.
2. If you have to pay something back its not free.
3. the people that you complain about getting the short end of the stick are hte people who the banks 'gambled on' in the first place.

I take personal offense to that. I am a college graduate with several years of experience in engineering thats cooking to pay the bills so I dont have to collect an extra week of unemployment and have a place to live.

"Whining" is a relative term.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 02:17 AM
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Regardless of how "We The People" feel about this, it seems to be a done deal

Bailout Breakthrough

Once again the PTB have shown that we are not represented in our government. Regardless of the protestations, call-ins, and e-mails our reps will do their best to give the rats a nest. Say hello to the SSA (Socialist States of America)



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 02:27 AM
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reply to post by TXPatriot38
 


I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket yet. they have reached a tentative deal they still have some things to work out and we know what happened last time the dems said they had a deal they really didn't have one.

And if it doesn't look like enough republicans in congress are going to vote for it then they'll have to start over. so it ain't over till the fat lady sings. alot can happen before monday in the house


[edit on 9/28/2008 by Mercenary2007]



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 02:39 AM
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I agree Merc, however, from past experience they will do what they will and we, as a nation, will be lesser for it. I just cannot have enough faith in them to do the correct thing. But I do have enough faith in the American People to, eventually, wake up and make this country what it once was, so I am in wait and see mode at the moment.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by SteveR
 


Oh you mean the "Fake" economy. By what laws of science are we talking about here? Where do we display the second law of thermodynamics as comparable to "saving the economy"?

I'm a bit confused please enlighten me as to why I should care if some crooks get their butts wiped so they can dump on us? Thanks but no thanks, they already have screwed this system up as it stands, their solution will only empower them to escape the consequences of their actions. Besides for every failed bank something will spring up to replace it and the world will be a little bit better because morons in finance came face first down onto the pavement for a schooling in gravity, now you think we're whining and don't understand that we are already screwed because of what they did? Come on, put yourself in our shoes, we could care less that they get relief, they are not god and they are not infallible and therefore they can fail the same as myself or anyone else for that matter and since their actions will most likely already make our lives a little less richer then I say the same to them, tough luck, too bad maybe next time you guys will come down from the clouds in your high rises and touch the ground for a change, it's about time.

"Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden."---Orson Scott Card

"Too many people are thinking of security instead of opportunity. They seem more afraid of life than death." ---James F. Byrnes

"Work for something because it is good, not just because it stands a chance to succeed."---Vaclav Havel

[edit on 28-9-2008 by bubbabuddha]



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 12:40 PM
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Maybe some us bankers succeed there where Al-Qaida failed. They achieved to put a nation on its knees.

Ok, to rescue the banks, the system needs them, BUT, some heads must roll on the floor. Otherwise it will start over and over.

The french say "qui vole un oeuf vole un boeuf" -> who steals an egg steals an ox. That has never been true. Steel an egg you go to jail, steel an ox and the system pays you a barbecue.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by SteveR
Less whining and more intelligent thinking is needed here.

I agree. Stop whining about the vast majority of Americans who do not want this bailout and start thinking more intelligently. We are a capitalist society and we do NOT want to be socialists. This bailout is socialist. To bail out would be a complete failure of the capitalist system.

Let it all fall. It will hurt for a while, but then we will be stronger and smarter for the failure. We will learn from it.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by looofo
Maybe some us bankers succeed there where Al-Qaida failed. They achieved to put a nation on its knees.


I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

—Thomas Jefferson, 1802



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

... This bailout is socialist.
To bail out would be a complete failure of the capitalist system.



depends on one's point of view... the bailout may seem like a Socialist action.

but, looking deeper into the situation, i would characterize the need for the bailout on the workings of Predatory Capitalism


and the proposed funding plan for the 'Troubled Assets' is the ultimate in Predatory Capitalism...
where the predator slowly strips the prey of all ability to resist the attack



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by SteveR
 


Talk to the HAND... It's a clenched fist, designed to straighten out corporate shills.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 06:34 PM
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Clearly none of you disenters here have either bank accounts or other investments.
And seemingly none of your family does either.
YOur parents; your grandparents.................?

If your paper money is worthless and you have nothing to barter then what do you do?
Any suggestions from you who thing this is such a good idea?

Your landlord will still want his rent. What will you give him?

The county will still want tax payments on your property.
If you can't pay - out you go -- same as in a mortgage foreclosure.

That filling station will still want to be paid for the gas you take.

The grocery shelves will be empty.
Hiwaymen will commandeer any trucks bringing in supplies.

Oh yeah, let it happen you say. Maybe if you do some realistic thinking on the matter you will change your mind.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 06:52 PM
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Someone suggests that we get back to hunting our food.
Someone else who has no idea of reality.

There isn't even enough food for the wildlife. Now we are supposed to join the competition.
YOu gonna raid someone's chicken farm?
You gonna raid that cattle ranches?
You gonna eat all those dairy cows?
You gonna eat the seed grain?
You and about 300 million others....?
Do a serious reality check.

Someone mentioned the stock market... now yes, that is something I would not go for.
However - anyone have "mutual funds" ...parents, grandparents have part of their life savings in mutual funds?

Well, hopefully the bailout will help to save all retired people from certain poverty, possible homelessness and death by violence or starvation.
What's grandma going to do when she has nothing to barter? Barter her body??



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 07:16 PM
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Reminder:

The market is not free. It has been manipulated by an increasingly smaller number of people with personal loyalties and agendas that are contrary to the intent of the 'law' as American's established it.

As long as the credit rate and issuance of legal tender belongs inthe hands of the private citizen we are victims of their whim. Plain and simple. All the rest is just theater, and casinos, and entertainment value of people who NEVER have to worry about sustaining there way of life.

Yet they are the unquestioned 'leaders' of our people. I find it tragically ironic.

If the Market were free it could, and would correct itself. These 'money lenders' are parasites.

Fortunately as they continue forward, they will eventually diminish in number, feeding on, and betraying each other until their own nature destroys them. That, at the least will be the relief that destiny has in store for them. Their paradigm of exerting control on a dynamic and chaotic system such as the human world will eventually crush them. I for one, won't weep.

[edit on 28-9-2008 by Maxmars]

[edit on 28-9-2008 by Maxmars]



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 07:29 PM
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grandma went through the last depression, this one is ours to deal with...if it comes...

ya know grandma did have some really strange ways....

she went thru the depression without a husband's support, a son to take care of, and an elderly mother to take care of also.

after she passed on, we went into her house and started going through all the stuff that had been collected. she was a seamstress, so there were lots of material scaps in there. each peice rolled up and tied with ribbon. we found these scaps in the sewing room, in the attic, in her bedroom, heck all over the house...
ya know what?? we had to unroll each one because well....some had money in them, some gemstones, ect.....
seems like grandma didn't trust the bankers much.
I'm inclined to agree with her.

but that little lady managed to raise her son, take care of her mother, keep the family home....all from making quilts and sewing clothes....
if she can do it, I am sure most of yas here can find a way also.



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by MaxmarsAs long as the credit rate and issuance of legal tender belongs in the hands of the private citizen we are victims of their whim. Plain and simple. All the rest is just theater, and casinos, and entertainment value of people who NEVER have to worry about sustaining there way of life.



If the Market were free it could, and would correct itself. These 'money lenders' are parasites.


You do realize that for a true laissez-faire system, the money supply would by necessity need to be in the hands of private citizens...



posted on Sep, 28 2008 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by SteveR
 


When your retirement account vanishes remember what your denial led to... your own
bankruptcy.

If you knew MUCH more about the History of these United States and the bitter feuds past Presidents... and I mean .. PAST presidents, fought over with this banking cabal's ancestors, you'd be stunned that you were fooled so well.

TIME AND MONEY IS their GAME indeed.

You have a month to convert your investment into Gold or Silver Coin.

Otherwise Pffft!





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