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Bailouts - Why Whining Americans Don't Get It

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posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 10:48 PM
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reply to post by SteveR
 


I have been following this thread. Individuals have posted resonable questions where you have responded with insults and rhetoric. If you do in fact have any knowledge of the economic structure of this country you have yet to demonstrate it. You have failed to explain your position with any substance. I was looking foward to an intelligent debate but it appears this thread is intended as a way to just provoke individuals.




posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by SteveR
reply to post by EtSolveMundi
 


The way I see it... if you can be blunt and straight... we can be blunt and straight.


Single handedly largest admission I've ever seen on ATS. Period.

If you're looking for the truth in this thread, there's no reason to look past right here.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 10:55 PM
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I say we take a darwinistic approach to the markets, survival of the fittest. To bailout these banks would be like giving idiots fertility treatment. You're not helping the economic food chain by feeding something that should not be. the $700 billion can be spent on better things, like....BRIDGES? I don't know... SCHOOLS? Your economy wouldn't be crap without a decent education system. Go look it up.
I have to side with most of the posters on this thread, that OP's statement at best.. a weak and poorly defended argument.


No offense but


Without the economy, life as you've come to know it would not exist.

is so obvious it makes your argument seem ignorant.
"Without the cold in winter, there'd be no snow"
Do you see what I'm getting at?
I don't mean to insult anyone by my opinions, but if your going to lash out like that, you better have your metaphorical guns drawn out, with some ammo to spare.

The bailouts will go to banks that will more than likely cause other banks assets to become undervalued thereby creating a chain reaction that would be worse than if we were to have done nothing.

I like the republicans "plan b" approach.. that was to insure these failing bank's assets through the fed therefore squeezing them for what they got. I didn't read it all so i'm going on air now.
Thank you for you time, and remember, this is america. If everything fails, it's actually a fresh start to purge the problems.
America 2.0 sweet..


-edit-
needed to fix some spacing in paragraphs

[edit on 2008/9/26 by joe_dirt976]



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 11:03 PM
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reply to post by SteveR
 


Ok where do I start. First of all you have been added to the prestigious downtown436 foe list.

Second, here is what the "Paulson plan really is".

-It amounts to up to 2,000,000,000,000$ short term, that can be added to the debt, that the "whining American people" get to pay through income taxes, in 700,000,000,000$ installments.

-Not to fix the problem, but to prolong the mess, and seize total power, in a fascist coup.

-Goldman Sachs (GS) is the company that Henry Paulson was once the CEO of. He is now secretary of the treasury. Under the terms of the bill section 8 "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency." This makes him the Prime Minister of the 4th Reich.

-BTW the Bush family has a large stake in Goldman Sachs, as well as a large % of the congress.

-Isn't it amazing that "Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, the last two independent investment banks, will become bank holding companies, the Federal Reserve said Sunday night, a move that will fundamentally alter the landscape of Wall Street."(www.bankreorealestate.com...) HMMMMM how in the frick did this happen?

-Isn't it also amazing that Goldman Sachs gets to move to the head of the line to recieve the benefits of the bailout, GEEEE I WONDER HOW THAT HAPPENED???



In conclusion, if you want to allow this coup to go forward, you are a traitor. You will be treated as an enemy target in my opinion and those of many other "Whining Americans".

God help you, because I certainly will not.



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 11:09 PM
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It's truly inspiring to see just how many clueless people there are on this thread and how only the OP seems to have a firm grasp on the current situation. Looks like the majority of ATS participants are self absorbed crybabies.


Oh, I forgot to mention probably unpatriotic too.

[edit on 26-9-2008 by maudeeb]



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by SteveR
 


No offense but you must be a paid dis info agent. This bailout is a good thing? what are you smoking?

Let me let you in on a little secret i don't discuss my personal life on the internet very often But i think i'll give some details. I'm a Single father of 2 kids the mom's not in the picture. i bust my ass 70+ hrs a week with 2 jobs.
Monday thru Friday during the day i work in the trucking industry then in the evenings Monday thru Friday and during the day on Saturday and Sunday I Run a Small Sub contractor Business. The trucking industry Job i get Paid twice a month and my Sub Contractor Job i get a small portion of the contract up front then the rest when my part of the job is finished.

I just finished up a job on my night and weekend job and since the housing bubble collapsed and Banks Aren't lending money i can't keep my own small business up and running no new contracts and even though i have good personal and business credit i can't get a loan to stay open so i have to close up shop.

Fuel prices Just about killed the trucking industry and the company i work for is laying off drivers and now we don't have enough drivers to justify the number of drive managers ( My Job) And if things don't turn around soon I'm going to be out of my steady income Job. Yes i have some money put away that i can survive on for about 2-3 months and feed my kids and keep a roof over their heads and clothes on their back.

Now You tell me why i should give these corrupt bastards that ran their business into the ground are dodging accountability and getting multi-million dollars bonuses.

I sure can't write off bad debts from my Business. From Contractors that went out of business or for work i did for homeowners that haven't paid the remainder of the contract. If i want to collect that money i have to take them to court to even try and reclaim the money that's owed to me.

But even though i had to carry these bad debts on my books I still had bills to pay every month. and if i didn't pay them i would be held accountable!

Now you tell me why a small Business should be held accountable when these guys sure the hell didn't have to.

I just got home from a family reunion tonight. i talked to atl east 100 people while there and this was the talk of the night this bail out. I got News for you out of those 100 people 90 were against any bailout and thought these business should just fail like any other business would have to do. 5 people were for the bailouts and the other 5 hadn't decided yet but were leaning to opposing the bailouts.

So for you to come in here of All places and say these bailouts are a good thing is just wrong! you my friend are in a very small minority while the majority of American taxpayers say enough is enough Bail yourself out not expect us to do it for you!



[edit on 9/26/2008 by Mercenary2007]



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 11:53 PM
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posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 11:53 PM
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to Ahabstar and Mercenary2007

I'm so ticked off about this bailout that I almost feel like calling out of work, grabbing a bullhorn and walking to DC from my place in upstate NY. All along, I'm going to scream out for people to join me on my walk to DC and ask, no, not ask, demand that we not get robbed blind to bail out these rich ... sorry, it's hard to type the things I want to type, without getting myself into trouble.

Honestly, right now, I work off of commission and I don't know how many of you work off of commission, but the amount of taxes that come out of commission are very high. All this money I lose every month, and to think of where it's going right now. Wow!

And for SteveR to come here and belittle us. Sorry, I have prior military training, learned to live off of the land from my father as a younger man, have family with farmland. If you think I need a banking system to keep me alive, then you are sadly mistaken. I know I can survive without your false prophets. Please, bring it on!




posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by Ahabstar
A simple question, suppose we give the full $700 Billion bailout and the market still collapses, what then?

Think that money will shore up the failing banks and securites brokers?

You know, some folks are pissed beyond remembering what Paulson said. He uttered the words "financial meltdown." The $700 billion will be used to upgrade "financial meltdown" to "serious financial problem."



posted on Sep, 26 2008 @ 11:58 PM
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This bailout will be more than $5 trillion, not starting figure of $700b. Watch MorganChase come in after the bill passes and want in because they hold at least $90trillion in bad derivitives (source C2C) and assets of only $100b.
We are George Bailey being offered a way out of our losses by Potter(elitists) when Potter created the loss (stealing from Uncle Billy) in the first place. Are you going to do what George did or are you going to live in Potter's slums?



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by SteveR
 


Oh...
I had ignored that post (the 7000$), thought it was too stupid to waist time reading it...

In my post, I basically agreed with you on the issues...I just think a little whining and anger are necessary. As you also might of noticed I blamed both financial institutions and the average credit hungry consumer, for this unfortunate affair...

I guess you are right, now is not the time to point the finger, now is the time to save what we can. I do, however, hope that when the time comes to attribute blame, if such a time ever comes, "we" will not forget the people that got us into this mess, including ourselves, if we are also to blame.

I do however feel that during this process it is important to start assessing who the main culprits where. I don't want to see another 700$ billion, or is it now 1.5$ trillion, go down the drain...or into somebodies offshore accounts...



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 12:08 AM
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reply to post by Mercenary2007
 


Great post Mercenary!! You are a true American!!


God bless,
-G



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 12:59 AM
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reply to post by Mercenary2007
 


Damn straight ! Lets here the rest of real time america tell it like it is instead of servile apologists like steve blowing smoke to cover the biggest pyramid scam in recorded history .
My hats off to you sir .



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 01:02 AM
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we should make all illegal legals. we should give more money to bankers. we should raise taxes and lower social security. we should bailout all companies. we should give millions to all executives. we should eliminate all middle class and make them work at lower wages.
sincerely Chaos



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 01:03 AM
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reply to post by downtown436
 


TESTIFY ! Could not put it better myself. This is what the rest of the world wants to hear . REAL Americans getting real and calling this mess for what it really is.
Wall st never gambles with its own money .it gambles with ours and our childrens futures along with the FED . hang the bastards for treason because what this bailout is doing Is Selling US citizens in to slavery. With their OWN money for christs sake !



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 01:06 AM
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posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 01:09 AM
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reply to post by AHostileMe
 


Yous said it Bro. Thats what those bastards fear most . Real americans getting pissed and saying the obvious. We dont need your damn dollar if it comes at the cost of our freedom.

for a long time I was afraid americans had given up and bought the endless lies . I hope your post signifies the beggining of a grass roots revolt against your corrupted Governement and wall st.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by SteveR
The suits in Washington are doing the best thing for the people - in the long run. Less whining and more intelligent thinking is needed here.


I can count with my fingers on one hand how many suits in Washington are doing what is best for the people.

Every crisis that develops, from terrorism to communism to drugs to global warming etc, always results in the government gaining more size and power in order to siphon off even more tax dollars form the American people to enrich the people that supposedly are gonna solve the problem, whether it be Al Gore or Haliburton shareholders or whoever or else the world will end.

And what a "surprise".

This new financial crisis appears (which was caused by the some of the richest lobbyists) and suddenly the government wants to expand in size and power. Then the way to solve the problem is by tossing billions of dollars at the direction of Wall Street or else the economy will end. All these billions is once again gonna come from the taxpayer either by increased taxes or inflation.

Intelligent thinking would point out that there is a pattern here.



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 01:59 AM
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Who's laughing now:



honestly no one is laughing..its just sickening and sad to see this...



posted on Sep, 27 2008 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by SteveR

Originally posted by EtSolveMundi
We would rather purge these entities from the system and rebuild a better system


In the meantime you will starve to death and functioning government will no longer exist.

The entire country will be in a state of savage anarchy where a 'job' and a 'store' is nothing more than a memory.



Playing on people's fears is a very petty thing to do. If it really comes down to that then God help us. The fact that we've been in this long dream for so very long and just now seem to waking up is a sad note in history indeed.

It's not like there hasn't been any chances to change course, people like Ron Paul have been screaming at the top of there lungs about this for a long time. I recommend that you watch ; The Money Masters - How International Bankers Gained Control of America

Just like other great times of trail, were at a boiling point, we can either run around in fear and wait for the end or do something about it. Writing a blank check beacuase were all scared and don't want the American Dream to fly away in the wind doesn't give merit to the idea to write a blank check to the very cartel that got us in this whole mess!

Just like the other naive times in recent history we were made to believe that pumping money into a broken system will some how fix the problem when it's mechanically broken down. We've seen this with the War on Drugs (more drugs then ever on the streets, War on Terrorism (al qaeda is more wide spread then before post 9/11 and Osama is still at large), public schools (as a nation we continue to slide down the ranks in all academic areas), government (we keep pouring money into this monster and were supposed to be surprised that we have less freedoms), and the list goes on and on.

This bailout is what I like to call the War on Middle America, like other trends, pouring money into a broken system won't fix anything and anyone with any conman sense or willing to tell the truth should see that. To the OP, stop living in fear and maybe start standing up for what this nation is supposed to be about.



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