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The Second American Revolution: Turning Point

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posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 07:06 PM
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For all the posts about what an evil goverment we have, and how repressed, silenced, and subjected to ridiculous laws we are, I don't really share all those views. When I served abroad in the Army, I did realize one thing. Most Americans have absolutely no idea how good they have it.

While I do agree you can't sit passively and let your government walk all over you, I also don't see that a revolution would change things for the better. Many of those 'evil laws' I hear about really ARE there to protect citizens. I've known many police officers (and of course, many folks in the military while I served), and they are not a collective bunch of government NWO patsies who would shoot their own neighbor if told to. Most are genuine, nice, cool people. People just like you.

We have a government in place that DOES fight injustices. For example, the 4 page "plan" written by one party, gets turned into a 40 page document almost overnight, by another. That's the point of our government. Checks and balances. And yes, there is corruption, but again, you don't have an inkling of how good we have it, if you think we are 'above average' in the corruption department. I'd rather live here, than in a country where the government decides to take all the emergency food, even though you need it to survive. I'd rather live here with out goverment, than one where leaders tell you if you are a woman and cheat, you are killed, but if you are a guy and cheat.. meh, no big deal. Or one where you are killed if you are gay. Or stoned if you don't share someone elses ideals. We have one of the VERY few countries that allow trial by a jury of our peers. You know how many countries would kill for that right?

I get off work, and I can get into my car, and I can go pretty much anywhere I want. I can do whatever I want within the law. I can even call out my government, and write terrible things about them, and I don't find my family gone the next day.

Revolution? Been there, done that, this is what we fought for. You can continue to fight to make it better, but there is nothing to overthrow. We have the ability to put people in office that we want to serve us. Write politians. Protest. Talk up your cantidate. Create rallies. Protest peacefully. Write your congressman. Make people aware of what you feel is the truth. But there is no need to talk of forceful takeovers and violence.

Man.. people just have no idea how good they have it.




posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by fleabit
Man.. people just have no idea how good they have it.


You're an idealist. Washington is under the direct influence of a foriegn entity.

The reality is the poor and middle class have been dumbed down in the pursuit for wealth and control by the elite.

The revolution will not be televised.

We will need foriegn correspondants and media outlets who aren't afraid to report the truth of the matter so that we can garner support, training and military aid.


[edit on 24-9-2008 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 07:32 PM
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In my opinion a civil war in the USA is right around the corner. I think the victors of that war will lead a revolution. Or join sides with a foreign takeover.



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 07:34 PM
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There are some that keep saying that everything is fine, and there is nothing wrong. That there is nothing wrong with a country that forces the two-party system down our throats, and that "most Americans don't know how good they have it."

At least that last guy was very respectful. Anyhoo, it IS nice. I don't think there are many places in the world I could live so comfortably, but why do I live like this? To keep me docile and happy.

Let us look at Stalin, who purged the government and military, several times. In the end, his army WAS loyal, loyal enough not to fight back.

A series of checks and balances? The problem is that citizens STILL don't have a choice, especially since many can look beyond the looking glass.

Writing politicians, why do they care? Ooooo, you might not vote them in next time. Sadly, that applies that a single vote DOES count.

If they did, why do we have electoral colleges?

It is late, and I'm tired but let me finish my rant. When was the last time a canidate from a party other that Democrats or Republicans win in this country? I'll go ahead and tell you, 1850. One hundred and fifty eight years later, same two parties.

It is nearly impossible to match either party finacially, meaning indie and 3rd party canidates don't normally get far.

You can tell that someone is trying to dumb us down, it's so blatant, it is ridiculous. Remember, the "lipstick on a pig" statement? That got what? A week on the news?

No one is talking about the issues no more.

Both parties have failed us, you must not! Besides, we don't need violence.



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 08:00 PM
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Academics around the country are pondering this question. I've kicked this one around for quite some time. The obvious trend towards greater centralization of power has given all of us a lot to think about. I believe that this is the most 'real' conspiracy you could ever hope to find. Hidden agendas wich run counter to our national interest are being carried out right in front of us.

Would there even be a revolution if thigns got bad enough? The simple truth is that we don't know. All we can say for certain is that we need calm and rational discussion. We need more of it than we're getting. We need to look at this problem from as many different angles as we can phathom.



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by sos37
 


I didn't say that I can't pay attention in school. I do. In fact I am an honors student with good grades. The majority of what they teach you in school is actually pretty good. It's just the history and government classes that are a bit skewed.

Don't tell me that I know nothing of the world, I have eyes, I can see what is going on in the world. I, for one, actually look at news stories and form my own opinions about them. This is a message board, it's a place to voice opinions, apparently you think that some people's opinions are less valid than your own. Why the overt hostility? Did I offend you personally with something that I said in my first posts?

I won't join the military because I choose not to die for a cause I don't support. I don't get on a campaign trail because, besides Ron Paul, I don't support any of the candidates. And I do more in my community than you know, so don't make assumptions about how I live my life. I am not some internet fan-boy as you seem to assume. And we all know what they say about assuming something.

This is a public message board for people's opinions, courtesy is expected.



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by fleabit
For all the posts about what an evil goverment we have, and how repressed, silenced, and subjected to ridiculous laws we are, I don't really share all those views. When I served abroad in the Army, I did realize one thing. Most Americans have absolutely no idea how good they have it.

While I do agree you can't sit passively and let your government walk all over you, I also don't see that a revolution would change things for the better. Many of those 'evil laws' I hear about really ARE there to protect citizens. I've known many police officers (and of course, many folks in the military while I served), and they are not a collective bunch of government NWO patsies who would shoot their own neighbor if told to. Most are genuine, nice, cool people. People just like you.

We have a government in place that DOES fight injustices. For example, the 4 page "plan" written by one party, gets turned into a 40 page document almost overnight, by another. That's the point of our government. Checks and balances. And yes, there is corruption, but again, you don't have an inkling of how good we have it, if you think we are 'above average' in the corruption department. I'd rather live here, than in a country where the government decides to take all the emergency food, even though you need it to survive. I'd rather live here with out goverment, than one where leaders tell you if you are a woman and cheat, you are killed, but if you are a guy and cheat.. meh, no big deal. Or one where you are killed if you are gay. Or stoned if you don't share someone elses ideals. We have one of the VERY few countries that allow trial by a jury of our peers. You know how many countries would kill for that right?

I get off work, and I can get into my car, and I can go pretty much anywhere I want. I can do whatever I want within the law. I can even call out my government, and write terrible things about them, and I don't find my family gone the next day.

Revolution? Been there, done that, this is what we fought for. You can continue to fight to make it better, but there is nothing to overthrow. We have the ability to put people in office that we want to serve us. Write politians. Protest. Talk up your cantidate. Create rallies. Protest peacefully. Write your congressman. Make people aware of what you feel is the truth. But there is no need to talk of forceful takeovers and violence.

Man.. people just have no idea how good they have it.


Thanks for mentioning that. I haven't mentioned some of my reasoning behind this thread and my backings, but I want to make a little slogan I live by,

"If you have the ability to act, you have the responsibility to act"

Many in the American public cannot see that. That is exactly why I am leading this discussion and discussing this cause. If I don't, who will?

That is why I am not plotting my own personal endeavors, but the ones that concern all of us. I feel that I know how to act, so I do have the responsibility to act. A revolution seems fit for that.

I haven't mentioned completely how a revolution can be too.

Most people think of Revolutions as Civil Wars. They are two complety different things. Revolutions can be peaceful. Boycotting!, petitions, running for office. Its as simple as that.

I am also saying that you DO NOT need to support mainstream candidates. THAT IS MY ADVICE.

Thanks for mentioning that, and bring up my actual cause, I feel that some may want and need to hear it. I cannot impress how important that is ever since it came to me a few years ago....

Now it seems ever more important



"Freedom of religion, freedom of the press, trial by jury, habeas corpus, and a representative legislature... I consider as the essentials constituting free government, and... the organization of the executive is interesting as it may insure wisdom and integrity in the first place, but next as it may favor or endanger the preservation of these fundamentals." --Thomas Jefferson to Pierre Samuel Dupont de Nemours, 1815. ME 14:255



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by sir_chancealot

Originally posted by badmedia
I'm pretty sure the main reason for the revolutionary war was because of monetary policy. ...

Yes, I'm sure it had NOTHING to do with the reasons THEY OUTLINED IN THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.


Do people even think before they post?

Edit to add:

Be careful how you answer in


threads like this. Big Brother


has ears, you know!



[edit on 23-9-2008 by sir_chancealot]


Some well placed bullets via the second amendment and FOLLOWING the words of the founding fathers would do wonders for your country. Send each others contact details (email or whatever) via u2u then organize everything else off site in another place.. pretty simple, avoid T/C violations. ATS should step up and grow a pair and let this happen but $$ usually wins out....



I'll leave you with a quote which has massive implications and bearings on the current runaway 'administration'. The republocrats. The two sides to the same coin game.. etc etc. Fooled ya once twice and many a time after that.




"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual State. In a single State, if the persons entrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."
-- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28


With emphasis on this part:
The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.

Source www.minnesotamajority.org...

GO GET EM!

[edit on 24/9/08 by GhostR1der]



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 09:01 PM
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Thank you very much for that!

The second amendment. The one last piece of the argument I have been forgetting.

Do you know why the Second Amendment was included into the Bill of Rights?

A number a reason...

Read up on Concord and Lexington, and why that happened. Oh, and by the way, if you are for gun control, this is not your house. Control is the death of society one way or another.

They included the Right to Bear Arms should be, 'defense of the last resort', being if they tried to change it, it would signal a too powerful central government. It is our right to defend our absolute rights. And the day where we cannot own guns entirely, I will move to Canada.

It is our right as a human to defend ourselves. That is why I'm am neither conservative or liberal. They are way too broad of terms. That is why I do not agree on any of the candidates.

The Second Ammedment signals our right and humans to defend ourselves, and if they take that, it would be death for humans.

You may say guns kill people, and the saying people kill people. All those gun control advocated, I challenge you to defend your position, because gun control is the last thing we need. If we surrender that, what next, our property, our lives!

Give me Liberty or Give me Death!



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 01:00 AM
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This revolution thing is all "hype" from desperate voters who are need for something "big" to happen. What those who are shouting "revolution" everywhere realize is that a revolution does not start with "hype" or just "talk", revolution comes about when people actually stand up in the face of oppression.

So please, if your going to shout revolution and insist on starting one, get off behind the computer and start one. Because over the last few months all iv seen is tough "talk" from people behind internet screens, it takes more than that.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 01:29 AM
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It's probably too late...
Every element of American Society has been subverted.Not just Education but civl service.the judiciary,the executive, and the legislative bodies both national and local.

Election systems have been compromised, Union have been decimated
Someday in the future people will look back and wonder why noone lifted a finger to save the USA everyone claims to love so dearly.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 01:44 AM
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I can't take it anymore, I'm going to have to post in this thread before my head explodes. If I read one more person's post about how "it's time" to start a revolution, I don't think I'll be able to hold my bladder any longer. We live in an age of global food chains. Do you honestly believe you're going to "start" anything by sitting on your collective asses spewing out nonsense? Do you honestly believe that this country is in dire need of dismantling and reconstruction? Do you folks have any idea how impossibly difficult it was to fight the British back in the 1700's? Do you have any idea how ludicrously asinine it'd be to revolt today? What are you going to do when the military turns on you?

It's not rifles against rifles anymore.

It's handguns against fully automatics, tanks, APC's, helicopters, airplanes, artillery, and global surveillance.

You also forget that the moment you enter yourself into a terrorist organization (yes, that's what you'll be labeled as) your means of travel are going to be very limited. Do you have any idea how large this country is?

Dream on, go back to listening to RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 01:58 AM
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You're right Donoso. None of you can do anything to stop what is happening. Give it up.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 02:06 AM
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Rage Against the Machine is a great band, for the record.

Also, there are different types of revolutions.
A widespread movement of knowledge to help inform others about what's going on around them could be a good step.

Obviously, the majority of us who want a "revolution" to happen is not realistically thinking that we'd be capable of overthrowing the government, or our own soldiers and their neat toys they could use to destroy us.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 04:43 AM
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My 2 cents:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

I'm not very happy when I make good money, yet can't afford a place of my own due to food, energy and fuel costs.

— That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

I'm not going to say that the Govt. is evil...But I do believe at this point they are incompetent. Due to the fact that my Happiness is infringed, because of a lack of Safety, (be it physical, or economical) I believe its time to "alter or abolish" this government.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

This rings so true. As long as it's not too bad, people will deal with it. Well, to me personally, the lost ability to sustain myself and my family makes this insufferable.

But when a long train of abuses *Higher and higher food, fuel, energy and housing costs in the last 10 years* and usurpations, *The USA Patriot Act usurping Constitutional authority to the Executive Branch* pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

This last passage screams to me of the last 10 years. I pose a statement: I refuse to believe that all 100 senators, 435 representatives and 50 governors are all incompetent or evil. Now I pose a question, that I don't believe anyone has raised on this thread. Instead of revolution, get together with your like minded fellows and legally secede from the union. We have the right, and with the current economic crisis, who would pay for the war machine to keep us a part of The United States as opposed to These united States (as it is written on the Constitution). Seriously, there is a difference.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 04:56 AM
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Originally posted by fleabit
I can do whatever I want within the law. I can even call out my government, and write terrible things about them, and I don't find my family gone the next day.


It's because you are better alive and consuming than dead. Plus, do you think your letter is being heard? And the chances of them being conservative and not wanting to spend a dime on your assasination is high. Keep in mind that you don't have an organization behind you, so your just small fish.

Better yet, they hope that by keeping you alive you will eventually join "the team" and appear on websites like ATS to try to calm Americans down from revolution, and work in Corporate America's best interest.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 06:51 AM
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When the ruling elite are genuinely threatened, then rules will fly out the window. Political correctness will dissapear and they will do anything necessary to keep things as they are. This a fact. If enough Americans decided to rise up and overthrow the government then you will see lots of americans being gunned down in the street by the military. No laws will get in the way of the ruling elite to keep control.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by truth_seeker3
 

Great tips. We've paid off the credit cards, don't have a car payment, and we try to grow our own food.
I harrass my elected officials constantly. (Senator Blanche Lincoln, D-Ar, never answers her mail, therefore I will actively campaign against her when she comes up for election. Besides, she's been in there too long.)
But I have one question? What do you mean by a "real job?" I make my living in health care, and that is all I have ever done.
I would make another suggestion to add to your list. Learn how to recycle. Use everything until it is completely worn out!
I would suggest learning how to do your own car repair, but the darn things are so complicated that most of us would be at a total loss to figure them out.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 08:04 AM
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reply to post by midnightbrigade
 
You make good points, but seceding from the union? Since it is doubtful that any of the individual states would secede, where do those of us who choose to secede go? I don't know of any place where we can go to carve out a new state, or a new country.
If you know of some place let me know.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 09:45 AM
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I think my signature says it all.

Mess with media, officials, pollsters and let them think all is on course. Tell your friends, family and co workers or whoever's ear you have about Ron Paul and to WRITE HIM IN on election day.

RON PAUL = "NONE OF THE ABOVE"



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