Bomb Iran: Israel Gets Green Light

I'll repy later

you need to get off your high horse. Alot of debunking to do in your post

P.S lay off the arrogance please

Originally posted by dooper
I never, ever said anything about Ireland fighting other nations. I specifically said the Irish have fought in almost every war, on every side, and that is the God's truth. Most of them were freedom fighters? So?

But your waffling again. I've explained my distress at your country playing havok over the last 8 years, in my life. I've observed the behaviour of your country over the 50 year history. And I dont like it! What is your point about the Irish, what is your problem? You seem to want to compare Americas major war issues with the Irish wars. Both are entirely different. Unless you can, explain to me some sense? because there is no logic in comparing both. Since Ireland has never invaded other nations. America does it as a hobby ! and alot of other selfsh reasons. Would you like me to explain them?

You just hate Americans. Good for you. Like we give a tinker's damn.

Stop that, I never said I hated Americans. now now behave and stick to the topic

Don't call you son? Your diction and word usage indicates immaturity, or at the very least, a limited working knowledge of the English language. Not my fault.

your irresponsiblity and insulting is your fault. Sort it. And calling me son is disrespectful. I would appreciate if you didn't call me son. Let's be adults here. Can you understand that?

I never said it's OK for 500,000 to die.

Good then, stop giving justifcation over larger numbers ffs.

I've met folks like you who can't get past the basics. Just because you don't like the choices available, you can't make one.

Basically wtf are you rambling about now. You havent given any example to what your whinging about. I can't help you with this. I understand reality, and I think the basics, I'm telling you, War is not solving conflict. Thats basics for you. It's made things worse! thats realy simple for anyone to grasp, Is this not basic?

You have me on this one. Ireland truly is a lot older than America. So what exactly has that gotten you? Nothing! You would think that of all Europe, with the considerable head start you all had, centuries even, that you'd be way ahead of the United States in all things. And you're not. Ever wonder why?

Because the United states is where is it today, from taking and taking from other countries. using other's nations recourses and wealth. Generating wars, for more money. I'm honestly convinced that your in fantasy land. Wake up.

And I differ. Wars do work. You kill every SOB on the other side, war over.

So killing each other work OK... limited intellegence is written your forehead, go wash it off. 50,000 years later, war work's again OK.... 750,000 dead civilians works? OK. The millions of families displaced from their loved ones, are happy and peaceful because of this war, OK war works.

You should never be allowed to type!

My country is a mistake? Since it is more wealthy, more independent, higher levels of technology, greater scientific advancements, more powerful, bigger weapons, greater weapons systems, superior navy, the first to the moon, with more opportunity, what does that make your country?

LMAO. I love when people like you keep giving yourself rope! Do you know that the majority of scientist and inventors are not American born, from previous studies is something like nearly 75% are not American, ironic eh. The rest of your post means nothing really. just more ways of killing people to get more power. Yeah your country is the biggest mistake to mankind, thank god the rest of the world is learning from it. To bad you can't.

America has a lot of growing up to do? Well, if you are using your country as an example of a culture all grown up, then I think we're much better off with our immaturity.

Yes it has, (some of your fellow Americans have agreed with me on this stance) your nation is in puberty right now. Doesn't listen to other nations, has rages all the time, is in conflict pretty much all the time and acts before it thinks and does what it wants when it wants regardless of the impact on the rest of the world, sound familar?

Hey, Slick. We didn't take Iraq. We didn't take Korea. We didn't take Germany. Or Japan. Or France. Or Belgium. Or Italy. Or Algeria. Or Luxembourg, on and on.

YES your nation did take control over Iraq, do you know why, do you ? :lol wise man.......

I'll give you a real eye-opener. When a man sets out to kill you and has armed himself to do just that, you concept of, "respect for one'self is a greater power than anything else" is a load of horsecrap. That's exactly what I was talking about. I buried a lot of folks like you.

Oh yeah, you haven't impressed me a bit, I'm used to listening to this nonsense from people like you all the time. Its too bad you people talk alot of horsecrap. "I buried a lot folks like you" would you shut up!

Dealing with aggression by using aggression is wrong? Man, you are so far out of touch with reality, you must be an academia. Or pseudo-intelligentsia. The same ones who in times of trouble drop faster than burschitt in a downdraft.

Instead of me being the "smart man" prove it..... You haven't answered any of my question, are you the big smart man now, that can't back his statements. Go aheaa, I'm listening!

There's idealism, and then there's the situation all complete with reality. And never the twain shall meet. You see the idealists are only guaranteed their safety and security by the sword. The security of the shield is only guaranteed by skill with the sword. Eventually, the shield will defend the wrong side of a killing thrust or splinter.

I won't bother you anymore. You have enough troubles.

I'm fine!

[edit on 25-9-2008 by mind is the universe]

Originally posted by dooper
Survival is the price of victory. It's either you and yours, or them and theirs. You don't like war? No problem. You are among the majority. The more ruthless survive, all other things being equal. You have to want to win. More than life you have to want to win. Right? Wrong? That's the secret. It doesn't matter. You win first and you discuss the moralities among the survivors.

The dead? Well, who really gives a damn what they thought?

Who's them, I asked you this question earlier you didn't answer, could you please explain I'm having trouble here,

Who's "them"


P.S not everything in life is black or white, or fixated like your expressing now, win or lose. You are missing one vital aspect, being human and learning and growing, you've lost this ability I feel. Your talking like a man who is lost and scrapes by in survival mode. Material wealth amongst you American's is the key to happiness and will push everyone out of your way to get it. More guns the merrier, all this wealth, for the winnings, and die with nothing to take with you. God you need to wake up!

Win this war on terror bla bla..........


Fantasy you live in, in the highest degree!

[edit on 25-9-2008 by mind is the universe]

Wait a minute. I casually mention that Irish have fought in every war on every side. You twist that as though I suggested Ireland was an offensive country. I repeat my casual statement and then give examples. Your best response is that I'm waffling? WTF are you talking about?

I never compared Ireland to America in the conduct of war.

My ancestors on one side were Scottish and Irish. Why would I have a problem with the Irish? Your proctologist must delight in your ability to reach around and pull things out of yourass.

You mentioned that you were in your twenties. Then that you've been observing the behavior of my country for the past fifty years. That is amazing. And if you mean that you have studied my country;s history over the past fifty years, then you don't know any more about my country than I (according to you) know about your country. So, STFU.

The 500,000. One more time, and just for you, I'll type real slow. The point was that the hesitation by Europeans to address the threat of Hitler in 1938-39, when casualties could have been minimal, (just use the number 500,000, or substitute your own) cost 52,000,000 lives lost over the following five years. It was the hesitation alone that cost all these lives. You take care of a problem while it's small, and you save a lot of lives.

You say "war is not solving conflict." Friend, war is conflict. At its most pristine level. War purifies the rancid human condition.

Look around. Mankind, I'm sorry to say, is a rancid wound seeping pus. Mankind is weak, lustful, greedy, depraved, self-centered, and enthusiastically susceptible to every vice and wickedness he can conceive. Man will lie, cheat, steal, and murder for a single dollar or Euro. He will melt down his heritage and his gods, and coin the same just a few brief moments of pleasure with whores. He will steal from his own children for a brief drug-induced high. This is man's nature. This is man's behavior. This is mankind.

Thankfully, the Great Architect in His infinite wisdom has provided a cantilever to our unique depravity and selfishness. That is war.

War produces courage. Sacrifice. Virtue. Kinsmanship. War, not rancid peace, purges mankind of the weaker elements within a society. War is selfless love for others, uniting him and his brothers to eradicate the evil that is thrust upon them. Because of survival of the fittest, war cleanses the weaker members of a society within, those who more easily fall to these lusts. Only in war does a man fully learn of rooms within the mind never to be entered. The room of fear. Anger. Passion. Possession. Just to name a few.

War enables. Courage. Sacrifice. Bravery. Legends. War enables other generations to measure themselves by the heroes of past wars. To emulate their selflessness. The value of sacrifice for others.

Don't hate war my friend. Hell, it's the only pure thing we have left.

Duplicate post!

[edit on 25-9-2008 by mind is the universe]

I'm sorry but i even fail to read such nonsense.

I'm sorry to say, but never in my life, have I heard such crap, on trophy parading that war, is like the divine way of been with mankind.


God it is the most redicoulous load of cotton wool I've EVER heard.


P.S Ok. You did have a problem. The reason why your talking to me, is because you seem to have an issue with me, pointing out the unacceptable behaviour of your country. You told me, I can't judge that, cus the "ol irish" are over fighting every courner.

See there is one, you have an issue, B. Your comparing my judgments of America to Ireland's. You've dissmissed my opinions, because I'm from Ireland (go back and read) Basically your saying that me as an Irish person cannot speak much, about conflict and war, since "you think Ireland fight everyone elses wars" Which is a load of rubblish.


You just can't handle that your simple wrong.


You still haven't proved anything in the slightest that war, works!

You need a shovel!

Originally posted by dooper
Wait a minute. I casually mention that Irish have fought in every war on every side. You twist that as though I suggested Ireland was an offensive country. I repeat my casual statement and then give examples. Your best response is that I'm waffling? WTF are you talking about?

I never compared Ireland to America in the conduct of war.

OK reaaaaaaly slow now! Why did you bring up Ireland in this topic?

Originally posted by dooper

You mentioned that you were in your twenties. Then that you've been observing the behavior of my country for the past fifty years. That is amazing. And if you mean that you have studied my country;s history over the past fifty years, then you don't know any more about my country than I (according to you) know about your country. So, STFU.

go back and read properly SMART ARSE. I said i observed the last 8 years and observed the history. You learn alot from history, It's that amazing. I will not shut up! Behave yourself "wise man"

The 500,000. One more time, and just for you, I'll type real slow. The point was that the hesitation by Europeans to address the threat of Hitler in 1938-39, when casualties could have been minimal, (just use the number 500,000, or substitute your own) cost 52,000,000 lives lost over the following five years. It was the hesitation alone that cost all these lives. You take care of a problem while it's small, and you save a lot of lives.

To cut your crap RIGHT now. that 500,000 were killed in genocide, a war based on lies, a war that was created by your nation pre gulf war. It's engineered war. So again despite number difference, you simple cannot compare the Second world war, to this satanic pathetic war right now!

You say "war is not solving conflict." Friend, war is conflict. At its most pristine level.

Second most intellegent thing you said in this entire thread! war = conflict. So i guess war is pointless then isn't it.

Look around. Mankind, I'm sorry to say, is a rancid wound seeping pus. Mankind is weak, lustful, greedy, depraved, self-centered, and enthusiastically susceptible to every vice and wickedness he can conceive. Man will lie, cheat, steal, and murder for a single dollar or Euro. He will melt down his heritage and his gods, and coin the same just a few brief moments of pleasure with whores. He will steal from his own children for a brief drug-induced high. This is man's nature. This is man's behavior. This is mankind.

No that is your perception sorry to burst your little bubble. Oh and some of it has truth to it, most noticeably your nation! If it were true, what are you going to do about it. Sit here rant and rage, and go out and fight more wars, because we are pigs, so lets all be pigs. So basically your saying mankind is bad, so your answer is let's just keep it that way! I see.

You have serious mind blocks!!!!!

Thankfully, the Great Architect in His infinite wisdom has provided a cantilever to our unique depravity and selfishness. That is war.

You do not understand wisdom!

War produces courage. Sacrifice. Virtue. Kinsmanship. War, not rancid peace, purges mankind of the weaker elements within a society. War is selfless love for others, uniting him and his brothers to eradicate the evil that is thrust upon them. Because of survival of the fittest, war cleanses the weaker members of a society within, those who more easily fall to these lusts. Only in war does a man fully learn of rooms within the mind never to be entered. The room of fear. Anger. Passion. Possession. Just to name a few.

Oh yeah, do you get paid to say such crap? None of that holds true. Not in the wars that we create today! war today is a profitable business, and they talk alot like you!

War enables. Courage. Sacrifice. Bravery. Legends. War enables other generations to measure themselves by the heroes of past wars. To emulate their selflessness. The value of sacrifice for others.

No it doesn't war kills people. Cut the crap please. Honest to god, your an embarresment and a disgrace to humanity.

Can you guys please take this outside? Like U2Us or Yahoo messenger because it has NOTHING to do with the now-forgotten topic!

And ya spilled my beer!

So, today, I come across this little tidbit: Yahoo News: Bush rejected Israeli strike on Iran, says paper

LONDON (Reuters) - Israel gave serious thought earlier this year to a military strike on Iran's nuclear sites but was told by U.S. President George W Bush he would not support it, a British newspaper reported on Friday.

The Guardian, quoting what it called senior diplomatic sources who work for a European head of government for its information, said Bush also told Israel he did not expect to revise that view for the rest of his presidency.

Oh who'd ever expect him to?


Cuhail

reply to post by Cuhail


Keeper of the Blade - I apologize. I rather take an old fashioned asswhipping than cause a man to spill a single drop of beer! That's the equivalent of heresy, or farting in church!

I notice that the press release originated from London.

Just one thing. I've never seen the Israeli's lay down yet. Even when scolded by the U.S. They pretty much do as they will, and we usually pull the plug right after they've kicked someone's ass in a thoroughly proper manner.

Ever notice?

doops.

I honestly think it is all a bunch of shine.

What Israel is going to do is already planned -as is the American "reaction".
The reaction from the World is already planned for and has been simulated to every possible outcome.
This is all just a means to an end.

Step back, widen your scope. Look at a slightly bigger picture. Iran is a target for more than Nuclear reasons.

Cuhail

reply to post by Cuhail


How can you be sure that it is a part of some bigger plan? i mean, all is possible and world is a complex thing but Israel attacked Iraqi reactor, it attacked recently in Syria what might (and might not though) be nuclear reactor and nobody moved in to grab land or oil then.
Why it is different now? From what i understand American public is
already fed up with current military operations. This and recent economical crisis will not allow at least direct US involvement.
I still see it as our (partially justified) paranoia. And i am also "touched" by it.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Cuhail

 

Keeper of the Blade - I apologize.

Third intellegent thing you've said, on this thread. I appreciate that.

They pretty much do as they will, and we usually pull the plug right after they've kicked someone's ass in a thoroughly proper manner.

Ever notice?

Ever notice that it's not acceptable behaviour, you don't kick someones ass in proper manner.

P.S What I'm expressing on this thread, is in dire need to be expressed, this thread is absurd and this war mongering is absurd.


Bush shouldn't be allowed have the authority to make decisions, because he is not figure that leads others. He is a betrayal, yet you all feel you have to "keep" on topic and post relative info on what George Bush says in the world


God bless America ffs.

reply to post by Cuhail


Thank you!!!

In fact, It's nothing to do with Nuclear at all!


Ever noticed that too clearly?!


People never look behind the door these days, to see what might be happening behind it. Every American should stick that up on their door!!

But on topic. Its about Oil. Second, it's about America getting it, before Russia and China do the business (which are currently are doing, and pretty much the right way without war)

America behaves like a brat.

I waaaaaaaaaaaaant it. America has been very very naughty lately.Think about why they are putting a base in Poland (near Russia to any American who doesn't know that) America does not want any progressing country in this world to progress that's the bottom line, that could lead to WW3.



You can love or hate my bluntness and take on it. But it's the reality. American people needs harsher words than this to stop themselves falling asleep in front of the T.V!

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


My opinion is that Israel's strikes in the past were all part of the destabilization plan. I wholly believe the Israeli Government is hand in hand with America's Government...who's hand in hand with the British Government...etc, etc; to make insistances that the region is militaristic and radical and that, without western interference, we are all targets of "terrorism".
Did striking Syria's supposed nuclear facility really make an impact on any policies? No, but, it set a precedent for Israel (as a government) to do so again.
Do I believe that Israel WILL hit Iran? Absolutely. It will happen. Talking about it to the press just lessens the shock when it does happen.
___________________________________________________________

reply to post by mind is the universe


Save the anger, man. You're going to burst a blood vessel. Relax with a virtual pint for a moment and let me remind you that you are stereotyping all Americans as materialistic, zombified automatons and that's just not correct. I understand and agree with your anger towards our Government for it's shockingly idiotic decisions. But, as you can see, in this thread and many, many others here at ATS, that a lot of Americans are pissed off too. And we have to live here. We have to hear all the crap everyone else throws at us because we let our Government take from us what it has. I get it.
As for:

Its about Oil. Second, it's about America getting it, before Russia and China do the business (which are currently are doing, and pretty much the right way without war)

Oil is the visable goal right now. It's the one hand dangling shiney things and distracting us from while the other hand's actions are relatively unseen. Behind the door, so to speak. What's behind the door? I'm not at all sure, but, I can guess. I would guess it's the real money makers. The controlling money makers. What all people on earth crave and abuse.

Drugs.
Arms.
Sex.

Mind, my man, I am a student of World History. I do look back and recognize patterns and follow them to present times and try like hell to look forward, following the pattern to a visable horizon. I look for the goals they reach for, not the methods that World Powers use to distract us. It's not nuclear. It's not petroleum. It's not even Terrorism. Those things are just the tools the Powers use to manipulate and distract us. TV, movies are used as tools to give us "direction". especially here in America. Product advertisements don't show what the product is, just that you'd be "a lesser person" if you don't possess it.
I could go on forever on how America is so hypnotized by mass media and marketing techniques. I get it man. "I waaaaaaannnnnttt" is a droning mantra here. I, personally, think it sucks. But, I am not nearly as materialistic as my fellow Americans. Good thing too, because I live in one of the richest areas in America. I haven't met a millionaire yet who I would ever "hang out with" and, believe me, I've met a LOT of millionaires. A couple of billionaires as well. Money is a very popular tool in America, that's for sure. SOME of us fight the marketing well. Others aren't so stong. People, on the whole, are susceptable to influence. Influence is a tool.

So, mind is the universe, thrashing the US, in a thread, on a website doesn't really have a usable purpose, or a point to address, but, I did as well as I could. Have a pint on me, take a deep breath, and choose to make decisions, not derisions, here with all of us at ATS. It moves us forward much easier. And forward is where we have to go.

Thanks for posting,
Caith siar e agus na lig anair a

Cuhail

reply to post by Cuhail



Thanks for the reply. I understand that, I might seem like a bit to forward and impaitent. But people like Dooper are people who need to get out of their fantasy. The brainwashing, is just to disturbing for me. They spread the infections, praising war, praising America, making excuses for the bad behaviour all the time. Respecting their own government, that does not respect it's people, nation or the world

Alot of American's spread this infection, by talking in ignorance, and trophy displaying themselves with absouloute disresprect to the world. It make's me sick to hear such a human being, display pride in saying war is good. And even he dooper, is not the worst I've come accross.


But my anger is not coming out from lashing at America. It's the constant, ignorance, suferiority, arrogance, nonsense and complete disrespectful behaviour coming from your nation and I'm getting this, everytime I'm trying to show self respect.

It's so bad, that sometimes, I sit and bit my lip, sometimes, I'm laughing so bad I wonder did that yank just say that or what?? Come to Europe and ask people, what they think of American's you will get alot more harsh words said, than on ATS i can assure you.


It's very difficult to disinfect people like that, its even hard to listen to them, but I won't sit and listen to them, They better start copping on and respecting other nations.

When your aware of the problem at hand, i.e a war that is not acceptable, you feel injustice and wrong doing.
It is wrong. Yet dooper shows so much arrogance, disrespect and believe's its right, because he said so. Do you not think it's very easy to blow up and fuse with people like that in this world. especially today in 2008? You have to understand, the level of respect your nation has to the rest of the world, is almost nill. Another thought, I'm sure your aware of that. But anger, is what the world is feeling right now, I'm sorry to say.

In everything your government, does or act. it's set's out to make everything worse, on a global scale. Power, money and greed. Millions of innocents to die for it. Thousands more on September 11 sacrafised by your government for a war in Iraq. On and on. And we have people like dooper supporting a war? for what?

It's just not acceptable anymore. I'm sick and tired of hearing such rubbish from people like dooper and many other ignorant Americans sprouting the same rubbish. It's ok to kill people. It's not ok, and its not acceptable.

I apologise for my anger. But it has to be expressed, and since you've shown alot of understanding, I feel much more optimistic, that they are more American's like you who can change things for the better. It is afterall reasonable for the world to resent America, as America just seems to walk through nations with a free ticket, and killing people in the name of power and greed.


You just would not believe the nonsense we outside of America listen too, when the Americans come over here. It's just plain shocking. Every negative adjective could be used here. But I won't go there.

for Example Dooper rants above, saying we are better, we have better that, better guns, better weapons, better everything, what have you, etc.


Its just unbelievable.


P.S I do not hate American's, just second time, saying, that just incase Dooper may twist my words I feel a vast majority of Americans behave like kids, and the feeling of anger I feel now, is like I'm dealing with misbehaving kids!


I understand and respect your views and thanks again




[edit on 26-9-2008 by mind is the universe]

Originally posted by Regenmacher

There's one way for the Iranians to disable that pretty-looking (surface) battle-fleet once it gets near the Hormuz Straits and recieves it's combat-orders...crude oil, and especially LNG tanker fire-ships...20,000 tons of LNG or 400,000 barrels+ of crude oil hit by 3-4 anti-ship missiles would make for an impassible inferno for miles at the mouth of the Arabian Sea or a moving moutain of fire to be negotiated...not to mention the choking fumes to sailors onboard the US ships

old tactics...new technology

Edit

--- Someone already posted the News article above ---

--- Delete ---

Edit

[edit on 27-9-2008 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

Since I was made to suffer through the dooper and mind the universe tripe I am going to fire off my opinion.

1) The people calling the shots have no Country. They have complete apathy for you and for me.
2) The Iranian people are as happy with their government as American's are with their own.
3) The more people you gather into a room the quicker the IQ drops.
4) Anyone believing that the United States is a "freedom" fighter has watched too much Fox news.
5) Anyone believing that the war in Iraq was about Oil or was about bringing democracy to the region or any other media sound byte sales pitch, has very little critical thinking skills. (war makes money, fear of "attacks" from the unknown boogyman, controls people through their willingness to give up freedom for security)
6) We as a collective...you dooper, and you mind of the universe are in the same boat. You have taken your eye off of the "people" that decide things, in fact I bet you are both willing to fight for some made up sense of patriotism the government(s) would use, to get you to achieve the "bankers" agenda. They are your masters. The ones that control the money.
7) Ireland and America are birthplaces, addressess. You are no more a sovereign nation than the United States is. They no longer exist in the 21st century. So stop fighting like, "my school is better than your school in football" because that is what it now boils down to.
8) Money has no Country. Money is power. If you are allowed to create it, you sir have all the power in the world!
9) Not all war has a human life cost. The United States was just defeated in a war that lasted mere days, with no loss of life. No army.
We are going to owe $700 billion and will be enslaved by that debt for a long time. Any illusion of freedom has been destroyed by this debt. Who is going to collect the interest on this debt? Who is supplying this money? Is it the privately owned Federal Reserve? Did they just kick our Country's ass with the help of their puppets in government and now are going to step in and borrow us money?
For the visual......I knock on the door of your house, I tell you to come outside, I then burn down your house in front of you. I then tell you that I will rebuild your house for 10X the price you paid for it, and I will expect that you should be happy about it, and when you ask why I burned down your house, I will say, " I didn't do it. I will go to all of your neighbors and do the same thing, because that is the business I am in...I build houses.
....this is just a simple metaphor and therefore lacking alot more detail and explanation but the whole point is to give you an example of right now, today events, that show you both that any wars between Country's and any political tensions are all obfuscations to what really is going on.
If you guys and all of the other threads that focus on Country Bashing...mine is better than yours or we saved your ass or without us you would be....all that stupid nonesense,....I would suggest you argue about whose Olympic team is better or some other trivial matter but at least it would be a more accurate depiction of the realities of the 21st century than thinking you belong to some sovereign Country with borders.