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Bomb Iran: Israel Gets Green Light

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posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by Dock6
 


Your dead right! I think thats what alot of Arab people told me. Israel, wants respect but yet doesn't have any regard or respect as a nation, to it's self or any of its neighbours.

Yet Israel point the fingers of blame.


What are they doing right now, Picking a fight?

It still baffles me what Dooper is trying to do here, He can't answer my questions, He trys to argue logic. He continues to accept this behaviour, and tells me and other's we are wrong for not accepting this behaviour?

There is only one reason, he either get's paid to behave like that, or his wealth is in this business!




posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 01:52 PM
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In the first place, it wasn't the US and UK that caused the initial problem. The US had nothing to do with it other than recognize Israel as a country. The UK is the one who drew up the borders. The US had nothing to do with it.

For centuries, the Arabs did nothing with the land, and existed in a state of poverty. The Israeli's come along, and even went to the trouble of purchasing much of the land from Palestinians. And Israel has made the country blossom. They produce. They work. They are industrious. They have converted the previously unproductive wasteland into very productive farmland. Look at the non-Israeli areas around them. It's crap.

Once they were attacked the first time in 1948 and early 1949, that let them know that even their purchases weren't safe from the surrounding countries.

Don't tell me that Iran has not threatened Israel. I heard the same thing from Egypt in the years leading up to the 1967 war, and the 1973 war. Egypt finally figured out that they would never, ever, be able to beat these guys militarily, and so they came to Jesus, so to speak, and agreed to peace.

Syria, an Arab populated country, normally hates the Persians of Iran. But their common hatred of Jews has bound them together, at least temporarily. The old saying of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" fits perfectly here. What is the common denominator between the two?

They both want Israel wiped off the map.

I don't give a hoot in hell if you want to admit it or not. That doesn't change the fact that they want Israel wiped out. And if Israel uses preemptive strikes for survival, more power to them.

I once got the drop on twenty to twenty-five enemy soldiers, whose weapons and clothes were on the bank while they were bathing and grab-assing. I didn't hesitate, and with a fellow helping, we laid into them with everything we had. No mercy, no warning, no survivors. Had the situation been reversed, I assure you they would have done the same.

A person or group threatens me and then just points a weapon in my direction, well, you just left yourself open to attack, and your blood be on your own head. It's just the way of the world, and it will never, ever change. That's my whole point in this discussion. No right, no wrong, just natural selection.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by dooper

I once got the drop on twenty to twenty-five enemy soldiers, whose weapons and clothes were on the bank while they were bathing and grab-assing. I didn't hesitate, and with a fellow helping, we laid into them with everything we had. No mercy, no warning, no survivors. Had the situation been reversed, I assure you they would have done the same.



Yeah, that.

I don't have the words.
You just lost every bit of respect I could possibly muster. You present yourself as an animal, not as a human being.

You, IMO, just summed yourself up with that one.

T&C direct me to not use the adjectives this statement inspires.

Nuff said.
Cuhail


P.S. Feel free to attack me for saying that. It's what I think you'll do anyway. You are now transparent.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 04:11 PM
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Just doing my job.

As efficiently as I could.

By the way. Those twenty five or so soldiers never made it home. I did. They dropped their guard. It was our skill that put us in such a promising position. And I don't regret it one, single little bit.

If you find barbarous behavior offensive, then I don't blame you. It is offensive. But when you are a soldier, your goal is to engage and survive the process. It's always one enemy, one kill, one engagement, one victory at a time. And when you kill enough, you get to rest. If you survive long enough, you get to go home.

To this day, I admire and have respect for my former opponents. They were doing their job, and we were doing ours. God, but they were good!

And just as dedicated to their cause as we were for ours. My enemies just came up a bit short. So is life.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Dooper, Its like you not only lost your self respect. Not to mention been wooful ignorant.

You also fail to answer ANY of my question I asked you.


Your making up assumptions and opinions as facts and you cannot back them up. When someone gives you the facts, you dismiss them. You don't even acknowledge or read what other's say here. Constantly changing the goalpost and excuse after excuse.

Your are just a troll. who think's its' acceptable and appropriate for humans to act like animals, you give no option otherwise, you give no reason to change, you give no reason to stop behaving like that. And you seem to think it's a good thing? In fact you come across as someone who feels proud to behave like one.

Guess you have much to learn.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by dooper


For centuries, the Arabs did nothing with the land, and existed in a state of poverty. The Israeli's come along, and even went to the trouble of purchasing much of the land from Palestinians. And Israel has made the country blossom. They produce. They work. They are industrious. They have converted the previously unproductive wasteland into very productive farmland. Look at the non-Israeli areas around them. It's crap.
Oh give me a break. your opinions is absurd, and fantasy. If it were blossoming, it certainly doesn't seem like a blossoming country, who wants to drop a bomb on Iran, You have to stop trollling dooper, I'm serious now! I see you've yet again dismissed my post on previous page. Oh well.




They both want Israel wiped off the map.

I don't give a hoot in hell if you want to admit it or not. That doesn't change the fact that they want Israel wiped out. And if Israel uses preemptive strikes for survival, more power to them.
Not FACT. Iran and Syria did not say, that. it's your government and the zionists spreading propaganda. Unless you can find quote that the leaders said that.
Your trolling again





A person or group threatens me and then just points a weapon in my direction, well, you just left yourself open to attack, and your blood be on your own head. It's just the way of the world, and it will never, ever change. That's my whole point in this discussion. No right, no wrong, just natural selection.

Guess your in that situation, because you have'nt learned how to deal with conflict and avoid it. It's pretty obvious that you have no respect nor show it, it's obvious that you attract conflict to you
People don't just go up to and want to kill you, you know!

Did you ever ask, why you are always in a situation of conflict, or wonder what the hell are you doing standing in front of a man with a gun?


I'm sorry but he's getting paid for this, nonsense


BTW you said the world will never change, it has and it always will. You won't change. Oh dear, you are delusional. Can I ask are you getting paid to talk nonsense?



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by dooper
I never said it's OK for 500,000 to die. I said it's better (given a choice between the two) that 500,000 die today than 52,000,000 spread over the years 1939-1945. You keep wanting a third choice.


No it's not better, it's just the same.

Picking the lesser of two evils doesn't make your decision right. It means you're still choosing evil.



I'll give you a real eye-opener. When a man sets out to kill you and has armed himself to do just that, you concept of, "respect for one'self is a greater power than anything else" is a load of horsecrap.


Now are we talking about being in the US's shoes here or Iran? How's that for an eye opener?



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by mind is the universe
 

There are some things that are not correct in your post.


The Arabs that lived there in the Israelie state along side the jews for thosands of years. In 1949 the UK and zionists, massercred the palistineans and taken their homes

Israel was established in 1948 on the territory of British Palestine mandate (minus what became Jordan in the first Jewish/Arab land devision). As a response to declaration of Independence - after UN mandate - war was declared on Israel by all its neighbors and Arabs of Palestine. This war was brutal, lot of stuff that happened is defined by "war crime" - but by both sides. Lands that were lost by Israel - also had its own refugees (Jewish) and massacres. Just Israel did not "preserved" those people in refugee camps, as leaders of Arab countries did to their brothers. So to blame one side in crimes that both committed is not correct. Also, UK was attacked both by Israel and by Arabs. Both sides blame it for helping the other. I guess that means they tried to stay neutral. As for taking homes - indeed, in lot of places. Not all, by far. As for massacre - in few cases, isolated. So it is false generalization.


Millions of these people are now living in states smaller than hawaii. The poverty and conditions are appalling. Two states the Gaza strip and Palistine are to small and too overcrowded to sustain and give the people freedom.

Really? I wonder then why Palestinians divided them self in two states, then. It was supposed to be Israel and Palestine but because all those "freedom" fighters can do is fight - they even fight among themself and got tiny amount of land divided between them self too. Even lousy economy that was there when Israel occupied those territories is eaten up by those destructive forces - so to blame this really awful poverty on Israel alone is unjust. Palestinians made their choices - intifada instead of peace in 2000, and current subhuman conditions in Gaza (much worst then under Zionists that according to you treated those people as dogs) is direct result of wrong choice. Israel is there and not going to vanish - despite threats from Iran. Large part of Palestinian population allows itself to be dragged into constant conflict without any solution at all. I understand that you are ok with this - but then you too have no empathy to those people. Just hatred to Israel.



They are technically freedom fighters. The people that do take their own lives or defend themselves against these horrible acts brought onto them by the Jewish states and the zionists. Or doing so because they have no will to live, they have no power to change or make their lives better. So the only way to deal with it is, taking your life (a brave thing to do)

"Technically" freedom fighters is nice description. If freedom is what they want - it could be achieved decade ago. First actions of those "freedom" fighters - brave things like gunning down hospital staff in Jerusalem or wiping out Jews in Hebron and other similarly brave things - were done before Israel was established. Whose freedom they defended then, and from whom? Actually those guys do not want freedom. Only chance for Palestinian independent state in this messed up area is beside Israel. Egypt/Syria/Jordan will chew Palestine up otherwise. There is a reason why no independent state was present here for almost 2000 years - except brief period of crusader kingdoms. Those "freedom" fighters are there for one thing - to throw Jews out. Then they job will be considered done and this place will be torn apart by regional forces. Just as surrounding Arab states do not allow Palestinians living there normal conditions - they will treat this independent state the same. Are they Zionists for treating refugees like dogs?


How does killing all these Palestinians help the situation, how does a war, help this situation, can you explain to me how in your opinion, this works, or how I dont understand conflict.?

Killing Palestinians helps just as killing Jews. It does not. Some people consider killing innocent people - brave thing to do, but gladly at least in Israel they are in minority. Also i want to remind you - after Israel was established it was instantly in war with all its neighbors. Now it has peace agreements with two of them (4 total plus Palestine), there is an attempt to sign peace with Syria and to stop occupation of Palestinians without need to fight them after-wards. So politics of Israel agree with you - not on bravery to kill innocents - but on the fact that war is not answer in most cases. I am not that sure that it is an answer to Iranian situation - might be and might be not. But i do not trust all the "Israel will attack tomorrow/next week/month" posts. There is still time and nobody from our politicians wants to take this hot potato.


People and nations want to respect each other. It goes both ways. If you have respect for another person, you get respect. Israel doesn't have self respect, nor does it preach it.

I personally see no respect to Israel from Iran, Hizbollah,Hamas. Why then Israel needs to show respect to people that call for its destruction?
p.s. - Unrelated to this post:
As regenmacher's post continuation - today US radar arrived to Israel. It will be serviced by US personal. Now IF Israel will attack Iranian facilities - it can no longer do so without direct US agreement - airspace was important but it is more. US personal can get hurt in Iranian response on Israeli soil and it is major factor. I personally not sure if it is good/bad ,can deepen the conflict or disarm it. However it is a fact.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by DJMessiah
 


Picking the lesser of two evils is still picking evil?

Is not picking the lesser of two evils - good? If it's all the same then more destruction and death is good! At least according to you.

Thank God for idiots. It assures the survival and success for the rest of us.

And Mind . . . you don't deserve an answer. Your arguments are so off-center, so blindingly irrational, and so immature that I don't feel compelled to further your education.


You just hate Jews. You hate Americans. You have no grasp of history, nor the concepts that can be learned by studying history. Grow up.

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by asala]



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
Israel was established in 1948 on the territory of British Palestine mandate (minus what became Jordan in the first Jewish/Arab land devision). As a response to declaration of Independence - after UN mandate - war was declared on Israel by all its neighbors and Arabs of Palestine. This war was brutal, lot of stuff that happened is defined by "war crime" - but by both sides. Lands that were lost by Israel - also had its own refugees (Jewish) and massacres. Just Israel did not "preserved" those people in refugee camps, as leaders of Arab countries did to their brothers. So to blame one side in crimes that both committed is not correct. Also, UK was attacked both by Israel and by Arabs. Both sides blame it for helping the other. I guess that means they tried to stay neutral. As for taking homes - indeed, in lot of places. Not all, by far. As for massacre - in few cases, isolated. So it is false generalization.
so its ok for the massacres, give me a break, the palistineans were not treated with any respect. They are retaliating, which isn't the best way either.But since their freedom was breached and taken, I can have empathy with that to a degree. BUT PLEASE don't sing a song for Israel about excuses and that crap.


Really? I wonder then why Palestinians divided them self in two states, then. It was supposed to be Israel and Palestine but because all those "freedom" fighters can do is fight - they even fight among themself and got tiny amount of land divided between them self too.
No the palestinians, were moved out of thier homes and hunted out of Jerusealam. They either were killed or forced to go to the two most infertile - poorest part of the jewish state. That is not acceptable.



Even lousy economy that was there when Israel occupied those territories is eaten up by those destructive forces - so to blame this really awful poverty on Israel alone is unjust. Palestinians made their choices
They were not given choices, your people basically moved them from thier homes. This wasn't their choice? your waffling in nonsense.



- intifada instead of peace in 2000, and current subhuman conditions in Gaza (much worst then under Zionists that according to you treated those people as dogs) is direct result of wrong choice. Israel is there and not going to vanish - despite threats from Iran. Large part of Palestinian population allows itself to be dragged into constant conflict without any solution at all. I understand that you are ok with this - but then you too have no empathy to those people. Just hatred to Israel.
OK with what explain!

Iran has not threatened Israel to be obliterated, Israel is doing that quite well right now with that idea, why are you even dismissing this, today this year and the last year to right now as we are talking about it. Constants taunts, to Iran. I asked people from the region. Why is Israel behaving like this. I know the reason, do you. Focus on your responsbility and your wrong doings, let other nations deal with thier issues!

I know, but do you know why the leader's of your nation, are behaving like aggressive children with their weapons right now?? I look forward to hear this!


"Technically" freedom fighters is nice description. If freedom is what they want - it could be achieved decade ago.
It couldn't have been, and that's both sides. Israel is still behaving like a pathetic brat in the middle east right this minute. It's not hated for nothing. Right this minute, it want to acheive the opposite of peace. Until both sides, learn to put the past behind, and come to together and live in peace, then it can be achieved. Israel thinks peace is achievable by behaving unappropriately, is utter fantasy.




First actions of those "freedom" fighters - brave things like gunning down hospital staff in Jerusalem or wiping out Jews in Hebron and other similarly brave things - were done before Israel was established. Whose freedom they defended then, and from whom? Actually those guys do not want freedom.
What about the behaviour on your nations, behalf. Is your country going to take any responsbility ? I mean that would be mature and brave.




but on the fact that war is not answer in most cases. I am not that sure that it is an answer to Iranian situation - might be and might be not. But i do not trust all the "Israel will attack tomorrow/next week/month" posts. There is still time and nobody from our politicians wants to take this hot potato.
Well someone has to do the right thing, regardless who else does wrong. person, elite and nation.





I personally see no respect to Israel from Iran, Hizbollah,Hamas. Why then Israel needs to show respect to people that call for its destruction?
p.s. - Unrelated to this post:
As regenmacher's post continuation - today US radar arrived to Israel. It will be serviced by US personal. Now IF Israel will attack Iranian facilities - it can no longer do so without direct US agreement - airspace was important but it is more. US personal can get hurt in Iranian response on Israeli soil and it is major factor. I personally not sure if it is good/bad ,can deepen the conflict or disarm it. However it is a fact.
So you think Israel wanting to bomb Iran, is respect. How and why the f** do would you think Israel should get respect? (shakes head) I think your missing one simple principal on respect, and how respect works.


Are you aware of how silly you come across, where is your evidence Iran wants Israel to be anilated. When the leader of Iran has said numerous times, His interest is not to attack Israel and (whatever his name is,) the leader also wants peace.






[edit on 29-9-2008 by mind is the universe]



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by mind is the universe
 


I'm getting paid for this? For what? Pointing out what every secular history book in the world records?

I hope you know as much about reproduction as you know about history.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by ZeroKnowledge
 


Zero, I hate to disagree with you, but there weren't a few things inaccurate in his post. There were a lot. In fact, I'd be very appreciative if you can recount one single accuracy.

And if you require logic from this gentleman, I'm afraid you're in for a long wait.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by dooper



And Mind . . . you don't deserve an answer. Your arguments are so off-center, so blindingly irrational, and so immature that I don't feel compelled to further your education.
Well than just proves your ignorance, you can't answer a question. You are being immature, no point projecting "your stuff" at me for it





Maybe in a couple years when your pubes come in, you can come back and speak like an adult on topic like this.
Pubes?? Excuse me? where is your manners?

No dooper, you see you don't have any self respect that is clearly obvious, and you don't carry yourself in a respectable manner. So therefore you need to leave for a few years, and learn to stop insulting. You have alot of growing up to do
Meanwhile I would prefer to get back on topic. Thank you.




You just hate Jews. You hate Americans. You have no grasp of history, nor the concepts that can be learned by studying history. Grow up.


Again, showing no respect. Sort it out Dooper.



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by dooper
Picking the lesser of two evils is still picking evil?


Let's be clear what you're asking: "Picking the lesser of two evils is still picking evil?"

Why would picking evil be good?


Is not picking the lesser of two evils - good?


Why would if be good?

An example: If someone needed money and robbed a person, can the robber tell the judge to keep him from going to jail because he didn't kill anyone, so he must be a good person then? Would he still be considered good for choosing the lesser of two evils?

Evil is evil, regardless of what evil choice you choose.


If it's all the same then more destruction and death is good! At least according to you.


More destruction is good? Where do you get that from in my post? From what you've been writing, it seems you only limit your mind to only two possibilities: kill others or be killed.


Thank God for idiots. It assures the survival and success for the rest of us.


If you think survival means killing others just to ensure your own survival, then so be it. I'll still be alive learning to coexist rather than destroy.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by DJMessiah]



posted on Sep, 29 2008 @ 09:24 PM
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You must not have read the text I wrote, and then you ignored the context.

I was pointing out that when threatened, to hesitate to strike if folly. I used the year 1939 as an example. I stated that Hitler could have been stopped cold in 1939. But they wanted to avoid war. A war that was coming anyway.

My point is that when an opponent has already decided on war against you, that hesitation is ruin. Hesitation is another word for cowardice. Cowardice is another word for prey. And prey is another word for dead.

In 1938, Hitler threatened to invade Czechoslovakia if Britain didn't support his takeover of the Sudetenland. Neville Chamberlain of Britain discussed the matter with Eduard Benes of Czechoslovakia and Edouard Daladier of France, and refused the deal.

Hitler was crazy, but not stupid. He knew that neither Britain nor France wanted to go to war over this, nor would they want to team up with the totalitarian Soviet Union. So he played both sides against the middle. Mussolini suggested to Hitler that he propose a four-way meeting between Britain, France, Germany, and Italy. Oddly, the country whose territory was being demanded - Czechoslovakia - was excluded from the talks. The would exclude the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia, and thus they came up with the Munich Agreement to give the Sudetenland portion of Czechoslovakia to Germany. Hitler had promised that this would be the end of his aggression.

"How horrible, fantastic, incredible it is that we should be digging trenches and trying on gas masks because of a quarrel in a far-away country between people of whom we know nothing." Neville Chamberlain

"We should seek by all mean in our power to avoid war, by analyzing possible causes, by trying to remove them, by discussion in a spirit of collaboration and good will. I cannot believe that such a program would be rejected by the other people of this country, even if it does mean the establishment of personal contact with the dictators." Neville Chamberlain

"I believe it is peace for our time . . . peace with honor.

Yeah. Some peace. Some honor. Over fifty-two million people dead over the next six years as a result of this short-sightedness.

Some peace. Some honor.

The following year in 1939, Hitler took over the rest of Czechoslovakia. In August of 1939, Germany and Russia signed the Nazi-Soviet Pact. A month later, Hitler invaded Poland, and the world was at war.

I suggested that if in 1938, and even in 1939 England and France would have attacked Germany to stop his aggression, this may have totaled 500,000 casualties. And roughly 51,000,500 people that died, would have lived.

Now you are saying that 500,000 dead is just the same as 52,000,000 dead.

That is sick.



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