My father was asked to join....

Originally posted by mystiq
Whether it has religion or occult at its heart or not, by association it is connected to the psychopaths at the top, therefore I'm free to think whatever I like about that organization and will ensure that not one of my children ever joins.

Actually no, no its not. The only connection between freemasonry and "psycopaths at the top" is in the delusions of a few who have never had any evidence to back up their claims.

And I hope each and every one of your children are free thinking enough to do their own research and not buy such false propaganda .

Based on understanding who founded the US, along with certain knowledge of what constitutes bloodlines and even invites, I'm going to disagree with you, emphatically.
In any case, when all this nonsense is swept aside and we have established a true moneyless resource society of equality for everyone, there won't be any secret organizations. And this is going to happen or the world is going to be destroyed, but people will never give up.

Originally posted by mystiq
Based on understanding who founded the US...

In your estimation, who founded the United States?

along with certain knowledge of what constitutes bloodlines...

What type of bloodlines?

and even invites, I'm going to disagree with you, emphatically.
In any case, when all this nonsense is swept aside and we have established a true moneyless resource society of equality for everyone, there won't be any secret organizations.

This sounds like a wonderful place to live, one in which you determine what others are able to take part in with their free time.

And this is going to happen or the world is going to be destroyed, but people will never give up.

If this distopian situation actually comes to fruition I think the world has already been destroyed.

reply to post by MockedUnicorn


My father was asked as well, they want you to think you'll will only be helping other people and in general just being a Good person but as you move into higher degrees of membership you become more involved in rituals and odd ceremonies where you pledge allegiance to higher powers and such.

Originally posted by PinealGlandThoth
My father was asked as well, they want you to think you'll will only be helping other people and in general just being a Good person but as you move into higher degrees of membership you become more involved in rituals and odd ceremonies where you pledge allegiance to higher powers and such.

I think I've got it. Every time a non-mason who is male interacts with the lodge, they think they've been invited. That way they can tell everyone on conspiracy boards about it. Hmm, is that a conspiracy in and of itself?

But on a more serious note, why would freemasonry spend so much time secretly invited "good men" if the evil cabal is only interested in satan worship/"pledge allegiance to a higher power"/whatever? I mean, it all seems a bit pointless to me. If your out to get people who want to pledge themselves to satan, why not just say that? It would be much more efficient.

Of course then I turn to ponder the ubiquitous higher degrees that seemingly everyone knows about except for masons. I contend that if these higher degrees are so well known by everyone except masons, than the evil cabal at the top that no one except the conspiracy theorists know about really isn't that good and we have nothing to worry about from them. I mean seriously, if everyone knows about it then how exactly do you plan to use Lucifer to rule the world?

See what I did there?

reply to post by LowLevelMason


actually he was invited, they said he would never have to worry about money, food, or shelter the rest of his life. That they would take care of him. My dad declined however.

He said something I never expected coming from him, (my dad ISN'T a conspiracy theorist like his son, he has a seminary degree by the way), he said he was getting weird vibes from these people, he also knows a lot of 32nd degree masons and even he says they are good people, he gets weird vibes from them, (he didn't use the word vibes).

Originally posted by PinealGlandThoth
actually he was invited, they said he would never have to worry about money, food, or shelter the rest of his life. That they would take care of him. My dad declined however.

So let me see if I understand; your father was offered a stipend that would cover his living expenses, a lifetime supply of food and a dwelling and he said........no thanks? I think I may have jumped on that one.

He said something I never expected coming from him, (my dad ISN'T a conspiracy theorist like his son, he has a seminary degree by the way), he said he was getting weird vibes from these people, he also knows a lot of 32nd degree masons and even he says they are good people, he gets weird vibes from them, (he didn't use the word vibes).

So what did he say in place of the the word 'vibes' that you supplied?

[edit on 16-10-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by PinealGlandThoth
actually he was invited, they said he would never have to worry about money, food, or shelter the rest of his life. That they would take care of him. My dad declined however.

Honestly, I don't believe you. Its not personal, but your comments have the ring of fantasy. Maybe you are saying what you were told, but somewhere along the line someone lied to someone. Whatever he may or may not have been invited to, this isn't freemasonry.

You could, of course, figure this out by doing a bit of research. When you look at the open books of lodges, you find that the money goes to 4 sources: (1) grand lodge dues to pay for the administration of the grand lodge, (2) to pay for the building and utilities the lodge meets in, (3) charity to non-masons, and (4) charity for masons. Item number 4 is always very small in relation to 3. In fact, in my lodge its about 1/10th the size of 3. Multiply that by all the lodges in the world, and there is no way possible millions of masons can be given a "stipend" and basically be allowed to live for free off of lodge money - which by the way, comes form lodge dues which every member must pay.

And as Augustus has pointed out, being allowed to live for free isn't something most people would decline. If he had moral issues with it, what a great way to get PROOF of this claim and then expose all those bad masons! But of course, again, I don't think this ever happened. He didn't "accept" the "invite" because there was none.

Originally posted by PinealGlandThoth
He said something I never expected coming from him, (my dad ISN'T a conspiracy theorist like his son, he has a seminary degree by the way), he said he was getting weird vibes from these people, he also knows a lot of 32nd degree masons and even he says they are good people, he gets weird vibes from them, (he didn't use the word vibes).

I get a lot of weird vibes from conspiracy theorists. Does this mean they are up to something too? Also, for someone who was given a exclusive free-for-all masonic package I've never heard of, he sure doesn't know a lot about masons - else he would know there is no difference between masons and 32nd degree masons.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by LowLevelMason]

The only "Vibes" i get off masons is the energy of a person who has explored their own soul and learned to tap into their spiritual reserves. These people (Masons or not) tend to function on a higher vibration then more mundane folk. (Remember, all things in matter vibrate, even people)

Now if you have never experienced this, then it can be very odd at first. you can often feel the energy of such a person radiating off of them. add to the fact that such people are often very calm and very confident, and you have a metaphysical cocktail that will send less spiritually experienced people looking for a place to sit and catch their breath.

I have only met a few masons that didnt give off this "Vibe", these were generally men who joined the order to support it's charitable works, but had no spiritual inclinations.

Here is what I meant by not having to worry about money, a job, or shelter. That was the man's opening statement to my father.

He would never be left to fend for himself or not be able to put food on the table or not be able to bring home the bacon.

Further interpretation, another mason will offer a fellow mason a job, food, and shelter if he needs it. Hence, you could travel the country and never have to stay in a hotel, just knock on another mason's door.

While this is attractive, it doesn't mean you can live for "free" Augustus. It goes without saying that the order would want you to contribute.

My dad has an IQ of 168 and he is very kind, gentle and spiritual person. That is why I believe my father when he says he was approached, the reason being, Freemasons tend to invite people who have these traits.

Many people on ATS would agree that a great person attracts other great people. I would say I am one of the top young cellists in the nation right now and I have already had masterclasses with the likes of Yo Yo Ma, Edgar Meyer, Midori, The Shanghai Quartet, etc... This is also known as the Law of Attraction.

My point is if you were to get enough "elite" people invited to this group, wouldn't you be tempted with the power you shared with those elite? If this group were indeed powerful wouldn't it attract those who are power hungry? And if those power hungry people got in would they not start to infect the group as absolute power corrupts absolutely? These are the types of people my father has encountered, the bad he does not like and the good he can recognize.

Overall, he explained that he felt it was not a wise choice to be indebted to such a group.

And I didn't expect to be pounced on by of all people you guys for not explaining "weird vibes". You'd think you would have enough respect and assume I would be able to explain myself. Half of the people in here are probably masons anyway, albeit lower levels.


[edit on 16-10-2008 by PinealGlandThoth]

[edit on 16-10-2008 by PinealGlandThoth]

[edit on 16-10-2008 by PinealGlandThoth]

Originally posted by PinealGlandThoth
Here is what I meant by not having to worry about money, a job, or shelter. That was the man's opening statement to my father.

He would never be left to fend for himself or not be able to put food on the table or not be able to bring home the bacon.

Further interpretation, another mason will offer a fellow mason a job, food, and shelter if he needs it. Hence, you could travel the country and never have to stay in a hotel, just knock on another mason's door.

While this is attractive, it doesn't mean you can live for "free" Augustus. It goes without saying that the order would want you to contribute.

Thank you for clarifying what you initially meant, however it still is not something that is offered in Masonry. The requirements of food, shelter and financial resources is something that is incumbant upon the individual Mason to provide for himself and his family (if any) and is not something the lodge is accustomed or constructed to provide for.

There are instances of indivdual Masons helping one another or lodges making monetary donations for a family in need but these are typically short term or singular donations and not ongoing support.

My state does however have a Masonic 'Home' for elderly Masons and their widows. The funds to operate this facility are for the most part supplied by the memberships annual dues as well as bequeaths by Masons who may be residing there.

My dad has an IQ of 168 and he is very kind, gentle and spiritual person. That is why I believe my father when he says he was approached, the reason being, Freemasons tend to invite people who have these traits.

Your fathers Intelligence Quotient and the nature you ascribe to him are irrelevant as qualifiers for Masonry. Belief in Diety, the desire to help others and a good standing in the community are the sole attributes that enable a man to petition the Fraternity.

Many people on ATS would agree that a great person attracts other great people. I would say I am one of the top young cellists in the nation right now and I have already had masterclasses with the likes of Yo Yo Ma, Edgar Meyer, Midori, The Shanghai Quartet, etc... This is also known as the Law of Attraction.

What you describe is a specialized talent. Once again, Masonry does not care if you have an above average intelligence, are a celebrated artist or challenged the Devil to a fiddle contest in Georgia.

My point is if you were to get enough "elite" people invited to this group, wouldn't you be tempted with the power you shared with those elite?

This sentiment goes against what we are taught by Masonry's allegorical lessons. The promotion of ones family life, place in the community, devotion to Diety and ones work ethic are paramount. The seeking of personal gain through Masonry is not only discouraged but is openly admonished.

If this group were indeed powerful wouldn't it attract those who are power hungry? And if those power hungry people got in would they not start to infect the group as absolute power corrupts absolutely?[/

It was always my opinion that the meglomanical and 'power hungry' prefer to operate alone; as why would somone who fit this description want to share their power?

These are the types of people my father has encountered, the bad he does not like and the good he can recognize.

I have encountered good and bad people as well and I share your fathers sentiment, I do not like the bad ones either.

Overall, he explained that he felt it was not a wise choice to be indebted to such a group.

My indebtedness to Masonry totals a measly $77 this year. I am under no obligation to do or contribute in any other manner then this sum. I may of course elect to join in some charitable function or contribute monetarily to a cause the compels me but I do not see how that leaves me in the debt of the Fraternity.

And I didn't expect to be pounced on by of all people you guys for not explaining "weird vibes". You'd think you would have enough respect and assume I would be able to explain myself.

We do have resect but you did not explain yourself and still have not given an explanation as to what you meant by 'weird vibes'.

Half of the people in here are probably masons anyway, albeit lower levels.

Care to explain the difference between a high and low level Mason?



[edit on 16-10-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by mystiq
Based on understanding who founded the US, along with certain knowledge of what constitutes bloodlines and even invites, I'm going to disagree with you, emphatically.

Unfortunately the "bloodlines" conspiracy doesn't hold weight. Never has. Its something that people like to believe in then.

Originally posted by mystiq
In any case, when all this nonsense is swept aside and we have established a true moneyless resource society of equality for everyone, there won't be any secret organizations. And this is going to happen or the world is going to be destroyed, but people will never give up.

Goodness I hope not. Thank goodness most do not believe the propaganda being taught by Zeitgeist. A society without money and equality means everyone is equally going to have a bad life, because no one has the incentive to do better.

Its never going to happen, thank goodness. And the world will thrive because no one will ever put into place the much beloved environmental communism of Zeitgeist.

Originally posted by PinealGlandThoth
Here is what I meant by not having to worry about money, a job, or shelter. That was the man's opening statement to my father.

He would never be left to fend for himself or not be able to put food on the table or not be able to bring home the bacon.

Further interpretation, another mason will offer a fellow mason a job, food, and shelter if he needs it. Hence, you could travel the country and never have to stay in a hotel, just knock on another mason's door.

Thats lovely, but its not something that has ever or ever will happen in freemasonry. It just doesn't. Its up to each mason to provide for his life. The fraternity is there to help ONLY when you need help and only then the help thats offered is very small. I knew a member of my lodge whose house burned down, and the lodge raised $1,000 to help pay for some of bills. Thats about the extent of it.

Originally posted by PinealGlandThoth
My dad has an IQ of 168 and he is very kind, gentle and spiritual person. That is why I believe my father when he says he was approached, the reason being, Freemasons tend to invite people who have these traits.

No, no they dont. Freemasons don't really invite many people at all. I've found on ATS that most people think anytime someone gets looked at by a mason they think its a invite.

Of course, you know this deep down. How in the world would they find out about his IQ? Its not like there is a national freemasonic database with everyones IQ in it, you know.

Originally posted by PinealGlandThoth
Many people on ATS would agree that a great person attracts other great people. I would say I am one of the top young cellists in the nation right now and I have already had masterclasses with the likes of Yo Yo Ma, Edgar Meyer, Midori, The Shanghai Quartet, etc... This is also known as the Law of Attraction.

The "law of attraction" is a new age movement from The Secret. Its actually just that people who are good at what they do attract attention. Of course, as I don't care for solo cellists, none of the above means anything to me and frankly I don't care.

Originally posted by PinealGlandThoth
My point is if you were to get enough "elite" people invited to this group, wouldn't you be tempted with the power you shared with those elite? If this group were indeed powerful wouldn't it attract those who are power hungry? And if those power hungry people got in would they not start to infect the group as absolute power corrupts absolutely? These are the types of people my father has encountered, the bad he does not like and the good he can recognize.

The problem is there IS NO ELITE people in this group, and invitations rarely occur. Freemasonry, despite all the conspiracy theory, has little to no actual power. Whatever you father encountered, it was not freemasony.

Originally posted by PinealGlandThoth
Overall, he explained that he felt it was not a wise choice to be indebted to such a group.

Then we can safely say it was not freemasonry, as becoming a freemasonry doesn't in-debt you to the fraternity.

Originally posted by PinealGlandThoth
And I didn't expect to be pounced on by of all people you guys for not explaining "weird vibes". You'd think you would have enough respect and assume I would be able to explain myself. Half of the people in here are probably masons anyway, albeit lower levels.

No, not really. If your going to go around claiming masons have "bad vibes" then you really should explain yourself. And your showing that you've done no research again: there are no low level masons.

I have two questions for people who are involved in the Masonic movement.

I realize that the Masonic movement is all about doing good works and charity in the world, but what if the movement isn't what it says it is? How do you know that you're being told the whole truth. How do you know you aren't being lied to by a select few that orchestrate behind the scenes?

Why have a movement at all? Why don't we all just behave like good people should and do good works? I don't understand the necessity to create the Masonic movement, to me, (and this is only a theory so don't rip it up, as there is not much evidence), this smells of someone wanting to be able to control a large movement that will be mistaken for something that is good and warrants the trust of the population.

Originally posted by PinealGlandThoth
I have two questions for people who are involved in the Masonic movement.

What 'movement'? There is no unified movement that drives Masonry, it is a charitable orginization that seeks to better its members and the their community at large. There is no impetus to take Masonry from point A to point B which is what the term movement implies.

I realize that the Masonic movement is all about doing good works and charity in the world,

I think you are confusing movement with philosophy.

but what if the movement isn't what it says it is?

Are you asking what if Masons are not as charitable as we represent?

How do you know that you're being told the whole truth.

The truth of what?

How do you know you aren't being lied to by a select few that orchestrate behind the scenes?

If they 'select few' you hypothosize about are admonishing me to attempt to be a better person while endeavoring to help the community I will continue to follow their advice.

Why don't we all just behave like good people should and do good works? I don't understand the necessity to create the Masonic movement, to me,

Because perhaps we enjoy the company of our fellow Bretheren while we perfom these acts.

...this smells of someone wanting to be able to control a large movement that will be mistaken for something that is good and warrants the trust of the population.

Believe what you wish as there is no way for me to prove to you otherwise.

Well ask your father what and whom you need to talk to in order to get in, if you want to. I know someone who was in the group about 10 years ago, believe me, they do nothing like all the stuff you read on the internet.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


I was searching for a term that would reveal its goal, "to do good works", as well as the furthering of that goal. Could you not say that Freemasons are moving to make a better world?

What I mean by not telling the whole truth is, what if the "head honchos", (if you will), of the Society of Freemasons have a completely different goal in mind which could be anything from world domination to something as petty as pulling the wool over the eyes of the society's members.

It is been shown that carrying out this type of evil is possible, just look at what Hitler did in WWII and how easily he pursuaded the masses. I'm talking about the fact that it is possible to pull the wool over a nation or society's eyes to carry out a personal and sinister goal.

Just because someone does good works doesn't mean that person is a good person or is part of a good organization. What if the members of that organization were completely and utterly oblivious to the evils their leaders were doing?

Who here is a 32nd degree mason? Please tell the truth, there are pertinent questions I would like to ask.

[edit on 17-10-2008 by PinealGlandThoth]

Originally posted by PinealGlandThoth
I realize that the Masonic movement is all about doing good works and charity in the world, but what if the movement isn't what it says it is? How do you know that you're being told the whole truth. How do you know you aren't being lied to by a select few that orchestrate behind the scenes?

Well, first off, since there's not an over-arching "head" of Freemasonry, if there really were a select few, A: they'd only have power over their state (Grand Lodges answer only to their members, no higher bodies...) and B: the Grand Lodge officers are elected annually, and many of the actions they take require majority vote from the member lodges.

Going further, if there were a select few, how could they hold any power over the many? What could they possibly have us do that was evil or served their purposes that we wouldn't be able to see through? What orders could they give that we would blindly follow? What power could they possibly yield?

Why have a movement at all? Why don't we all just behave like good people should and do good works? I don't understand the necessity to create the Masonic movement, to me, (and this is only a theory so don't rip it up, as there is not much evidence), this smells of someone wanting to be able to control a large movement that will be mistaken for something that is good and warrants the trust of the population.

Well, it's not a movement. It's an organization. Yeah, you're right, everyone should do good works. Do they? No. Sometimes its easier to be a part of something bigger than to try to do it on your own. Say we're giving bikes to kids in low-income families for Christmas. One guy is good at fixing up bikes. Another might own a pickup truck. A few more are good for heavy lifting, etc. Together they can make a bigger difference than they could individually, right?

Originally posted by PinealGlandThoth
Who here is a 32nd degree mason? Please tell the truth, there are pertinent questions I would like to ask.

I'm a 32° in the Scottish Rite. Probably at least half of the Masons here are. We've even got a 33° who chimes in from time to time. There are a few Knights Templar from the York Rite here, and maybe a Shriner or two as well.

[edit on 10/17/2008 by JoshNorton]