Hoodies, hats banned from shops

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


Do you even know what a hoodie is?

It's a sweatshirt with a hood.
The exact same as a coat or rain jacket, just made out of different material. You don't always have to wear the hood up. In fact most people wear them down until they walk outside in the elements. You continue to fail to see the big picture...

Don't even start the you "obviously pay for nothing. You don't contribute." You don't know me and you don't know every child out there. I know alot of kids whos parents were out having random sex, doing drugs, and getting trashed while the kids were home taking care of themselves.

"And as for ignorance: you think we created the world or do you think we inherited it like you did?"

You inherited it and made it worse. Thanks.



"Actually you owe us everything. If it wasn't for your parents, you'd have died from exposure as a baby, you'd have starved to death as a child and you'd have been beaten senseless by a group of feral young men for your girlfriend as a teenager. You can thank the adults around you for all of these things not happening, you ungrateful, stupid child."

Nice. Way to go off of topic. Random 80 year old men bitching about stupid # have done nothing for me. The only people I owe anything to are the people who have helped me, and not every old ass out there. Get real.

"And respect? Did you fight a world war? Did you have any notion of the hardships and suffering wraught by facist regimes and the bravery and strength of the "old people" you so callously deride? Obviously not. You're just a punk who thinks the world owes them something."

I didn't tell them to fight a World War..to be truthful many of them did it for the money or the jobs they could get afterwards...trust me I have many in my family and I have friends in Iraq..once again you have a failed argument.
Don't get me started on the World Wars either...the old people dropped the Atom Bomb and the toxins from it are still blowing around causing cancer and who knows what else..

Are you like 80 and completely disconnected from society?



[edit on 8-9-2008 by blahblah123]

Originally posted by blahblah123

Do you even know what a hoodie is?

It's a sweatshirt with a hood.

The exact same as a coat or rain jacket, just made out of different material. You don't always have to wear the hood up. In fact most people wear them down until they walk outside in the elements.

Is this some kind of yoof code for "I have no idea what you're talking about"? Because I don't think you do.

I have repeatedly stated this rule is fine, because I completely agree. Kids are using the hoodies to hide their identity from CCTV and commit crimes. Disallowing hoodies, which is the popular fashion at the moment and conveniently happens to be a great method for hiding from these CCTV cameras, removes the temptation for these kids to commit crimes because they will be identified and caught.

Evidently these kids are obviously always wearing them up and are then committing crimes. How are you finding that concept hard or inable to see it as a moral faliure? How can't you see simply preventing them from coming in and covering their faces, you will reduce the amount of opportunity for crime?

Originally posted by blahblah123You continue to fail to see the big picture...

Please, indulge me, let me know what your vast perception of "the big picture", I am genuinely curious. Don't skimp on the waffle, I want to hear every last bit of your wisdom.

Originally posted by blahblah123Are you like 80 and completely disconnected from society?

So instead of actually proving you have some intellect and addressing my post in any detail, you resort to some kind of petty insult, that really isn't so insulting. So what if I was 80 and completely disconnected from the yoof? That doesn't mean what I'm saying isn't simply common sense, it just means I'm not some pratt who sits on street corners trying to look big wiv' me mates, innit?

Nice edit, here's my response to these words of wisdom.

Originally posted by blahblah123
Don't even start the you "obviously pay for nothing. You don't contribute." You don't know me and you don't know every child out there. I know alot of kids whos parents were out having random sex, doing drugs, and getting trashed while the kids were home taking care of themselves.

So what? Is that my problem or responsibility? The point is, children do not contribute to society like adults do, on even vaguely the same scale.

Good for you knowing the dregs of society, thankfully I can't say I associate with such people. I consider it wrong, incidentally.

Originally posted by blahblah123"And as for ignorance: you think we created the world or do you think we inherited it like you did?"

You inherited it and made it worse. Thanks.

Erm no, actually, I personally didn't. I don't drive, I recycle and I don't waste food. I've done my bit to make it better. But as you don't know anything, at all, you've made a wild assumption, an action that you'll criticise me for shortly.

Originally posted by blahblah123"Actually you owe us everything. If it wasn't for your parents, you'd have died from exposure as a baby, you'd have starved to death as a child and you'd have been beaten senseless by a group of feral young men for your girlfriend as a teenager. You can thank the adults around you for all of these things not happening, you ungrateful, stupid child."

Nice. Way to go off of topic. Random 80 year old men bitching about stupid # have done nothing for me. The only people I owe anything to are the people who have helped me, and not every old ass out there. Get real.

[SNIP] You mentioned that you felt the world owed you whatever, which it clearly doesn't. You started the angle, so don't complain when I answer it, just because you know you're wrong.

Get over your teenage angst and grow up a bit. If you think it's hard, there are millions who have it worse. Appreciate what you have and the people who made the world so you can have it.

If you can't glean any kind of wisdom from the writings of others, I feel sorry for you and you're almost right: I can't do anything for you. Unfortunately I'm not quite 80 yet, and thus I have to work for a living. I'm sure you know all about a decade of hard work in jobs you don't like.

Originally posted by blahblah123"And respect? Did you fight a world war? Did you have any notion of the hardships and suffering wraught by facist regimes and the bravery and strength of the "old people" you so callously deride? Obviously not. You're just a punk who thinks the world owes them something."

I didn't tell them to fight a World War..to be truthful many of them did it for the money or the jobs they could get afterwards...trust me I have many in my family and I have friends in Iraq..once again you have a failed argument.
Don't get me started on the World Wars either...the old people dropped the Atom Bomb and the toxins from it are still blowing around causing cancer and who knows what else..

Are you really this ignorant? It doesn't matter if you "didn't tell them to fight a world war". The point is, evil people wanted to conquer the world, and the good people stood their ground and stopped them. It took massive loss of life and grave suffering for millions on both sides, but eventually good men prevailed so you can sit at your #ing pc and trash their accomplishments, which is the continuing saftey and freedom of the Western World.

"Dropped the atom bomb" - no, they dropped two, one on Nagasaki and one on Hiroshima, and they proceeded to save millions of lives because the Japanese had to be stopped and they were not going to give up; it would have been awful.

Your ignorance is simply astounding. You clearly don't know anything at all. And you have the audacity to say my arguments have failed.



Removed personal attack

Please read from the T&C's

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.




[edit on 8/9/08 by masqua]

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


Don't even start the "petty insult" bull# when you have obviously done it too.

The big picture is that all youths are being targeted. You admit it yourself hoodies are the trend right now and in all honesty they are no different from a coat or rainjacket or hat. The only difference is that the youths wear hoodies.

I don't think you understand that these thugs will start wearing coats, rainjackets, and hats next. They can all be used to obscure your face also. (Hell you can even use your hands to obscure your face..whats next...please tie your hands together when entering the mall?)

Banning hoodies won't work anyway, it's just a way to give people a false sense of security because the punks aren't wearing hoodies anymore...Next they will be glad that people cant wear coats or rainjackets and it will make them feel safe. This paranoia will eventually lead into strip searches, cavity checks, and probably some form of ID check to be allowed in a mall. It's about a lot more than just what people can wear.

"I'm not some pratt who sits on street corners trying to look big wiv' me mates, innit? "

I have no idea who talks like that..I'll leave that to being a British thing.

reply to post by C.C.Benjamin


I'm 19..I have a full time job while going to school and I volunteer at the homeless shelter, and I help keep our downtown looking nice. Don't tell me that I don't contribute to society like adults do. I do more in one day then most adults do in a week.


"Erm no, actually, I personally didn't. I don't drive, I recycle and I don't waste food. I've done my bit to make it better. But as you don't know anything, at all, you've made a wild assumption, an action that you'll criticise me for shortly."

Congratulations on never using inefficient appliances, Styrofoam, or any aerosol cans!

"You're a moron. You mentioned that you felt the world owed you whatever, which it clearly doesn't. You started the angle, so don't complain when I answer it, just because you know you're wrong."

Once again failure to realize the point...I said I don't owe random 80 year old men bitching about # anything. The point of my "they owe us" is to get across the point that these old people haven't made a utopia for us like they think they have, in fact they've made everything worse. I wasn't talking about material possessions which you don't seem to understand.
BTW- Thank you for using the correct form of You're!!

"Unfortunately I'm not quite 80 yet, and thus I have to work for a living. I'm sure you know all about a decade of hard work in jobs you don't like."

Thats not my fault that you don't like your jobs. Go back to school!

"so you can sit at your #ing pc and trash their accomplishments,which is the continuing saftey and freedom of the Western World."

1st...I use a Mac not a PC.
2nd..They fought evil people so that evil people can continue to rule the
free world. Wow.
3.....I don't think you realize that now it is people MY age creating the safety (which you spelled wrong) and freedom in the Western World.



"Dropped the atom bomb" - no, they dropped two, one on Nagasaki and one on Hiroshima, and they proceeded to save millions of lives because the Japanese had to be stopped and they were not going to give up; it would have been awful.

hahaha wow. They saved millions of lives by taking millions of lives...got it. Oh btw there is records that the Japanese were going to surrender after the first A-Bomb was dropped, and the second was completely useless.

I'm going to chalk our difference up to the education systems between our countries. You are obviously taught to think inside the box where at my school we were always looking at the big picture and learning how to be critical thinkers. Thank god for America.




[edit on 8-9-2008 by blahblah123]

reply to post by blahblah123


Anyway the people in the article have stated exactly what I have said:

""Our review at the moment hasn't shown any marked change in behaviours or attendance in the centre," Mr Tree said. "

Are they going to ban coats and jackets with hoods now? I'm 35 years old and prefer to wear a hoodie over a jacket or coat. I'd be damned if someone tells me I can't go into their business if I'm wearing a hoodie which I don't put the hood up on unless it's freezing out or raining. I'll take my business elsewhere.

If kids or anyone is up to no good not being able to wear a hoodie isn't going to stop them from committing crimes. A handkerchief taken out of a pocket and tied around the nose and mouth does just as good.

I know lets make everyone shop naked. That way we can be sure they can't hide who they are and the shoplifters have no pockets to place stolen goods in.

The problem isn't what the kids are wearing. The problem is security letting them all hang out in gangs inside the store/mall.

What of the loss prevention teams in the stores? It's their job to notice the bad elements and track them through the stores. Make them do their jobs and what the kids are wearing won't matter.

This is retarded, people can't wear anything with a hood attached to it in a shopping center?
So my grandma who wears a hood when it's cold will be kicked out of a mall for wearing a hoody?

Why don't they just hire security and police to get the mall rats that are hanging out and not buying anything out of the mall.

Thats what they do here in Toronto and it works fine.
After you been rushed out the mall a couple times by cops when your not shopping, your not going to want to go back there to hang out.

I hate cops by the way but I can't stand to go shopping in a mall where 50 mans are standing there doing nothing but being loud, watching people walk around and acting like they own the place.

reply to post by Simon_Boudreaux


"If kids or anyone is up to no good not being able to wear a hoodie isn't going to stop them from committing crimes. A handkerchief taken out of a pocket and tied around the nose and mouth does just as good."

Exactly!

[edit on 8-9-2008 by blahblah123]

[edit on 8-9-2008 by blahblah123]

reply to post by buds84


This is retarded and I don't get why some people don't seem to realize it!
The people who agree with banning hoodies must be really out of the loop or really ignorant.




[edit on 8-9-2008 by blahblah123]

Please remain civil to each other as you debate the benefits/terrors of hoodies and hats in shops and malls.

Further name-calling and personal insults will result in points penalties being awarded.

Thank you.

I'm sorry but.


In the UK a private organisation can do whatever it likes, within the law to let you enter their premises. If i opened a bar for example that required you to hop on the spot three times, skip twice and sing"i'm a little girl" before entering, then i could do that.

You are comparing a police state to a private organisation and so your comparison is false to begin with. As i said at the start, the thread is rediculous, and it's rediculous for the very reason i just listed. Why this has gone on for 11 pages when this simple, logical point is clear, i have absolutely no clue.

I'm all for freedom, i'm all for fair treatment, but i'm not so utterly blinded by my zealotry on this issue to see the logical truth.

Originally posted by Simon_Boudreaux
Are they going to ban coats and jackets with hoods now? I'm 35 years old and prefer to wear a hoodie over a jacket or coat. I'd be damned if someone tells me I can't go into their business if I'm wearing a hoodie which I don't put the hood up on unless it's freezing out or raining. I'll take my business elsewhere.

Wow you skipped over the main point rather nicely here. You are correct, you could take your business elsewhere and that is the major point here. It's a damn business, which means it can do whatever it likes within the law! Are you offended when a nightclub tells you no trainers as well?

I suppose nightclubs are also part of the police state, with their damn dress codes, and those fancy restruants! Damn them all!

[edit on 8-9-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


It is related to a Police State because it is a reflection of society's attitudes and fears. First it will happen in a mall and if people allow it to happen there it will happen in other places. This issue is only the floor and not the ceiling.

I see it in America almost everyday since 9/11, all the government has to do is make a mention that if we don't go along with this or that then another 9/11 type incident will happen. People are so scared that they will go with anything that makes them feel safe for a day.



[edit on 8-9-2008 by blahblah123]

[edit on 8-9-2008 by blahblah123]

To be fair, these things have to start somewhere and banning them from shopping malls could be just the start.
What is cops don't want anyone to wear hoods at all anywhere over time.

[edit on 8-9-2008 by buds84]

Originally posted by blahblah123
It is related to a Police State because it is a reflection of society's attitudes and fears. First it will happen in a mall and if people allow it to happen there it will happen in other places. This issue is only the floor and not the ceiling.

Wrong, sorry but wrong. If some government started saying this publicly then i'd be so against it you wouldn't believe it. I would pertition, write my MP and anything else i could. Private and public are seperate. That's my major issue with the current governments and their allowance of being bullied into passing laws that often value companies.

Originally posted by blahblah123
I see it in America almost everyday since 9/11, all the government has to do is make a mention that if we don't go along with this or that then another 9/11 type incident will happen. People are so scared that they will go with anything that makes them feel safe for a day.

We however aren't america, there are different problems here and there. Neither country is doing better just we have different problems. This issue isn't about terrorism however.

Hiding your face in a shopping area means you can more easily get away with stealing something. As a shopping mall is a private enterprise i don't see how it's a problem them banning you from hiding your face. Imagine you own a shop there, i'm willing to bet you'd suddenly find this a very good thing.

Originally posted by buds84
To be fair, these things have to start somewhere and banning them from shopping malls could be just the start.

and therein lies the true nature of these actions. Again, private businesses have the right to run their businesses how they want...

however as it has been brought up countless times already, corporations have been swallowing up private businesses left and right - so eventually, it wont be a mom & pop shops that are asking kids to take off their hoods, but it will be wal-mart, target and home depot all telling you that you must have a shaved head, no facial hair and white shirt, blue jeans to enter any of their stores... and this is at the point where wal-mart is the only option to shop.

Originally posted by scientist
however as it has been brought up countless times already, corporations have been swallowing up private businesses left and right - so eventually, it wont be a mom & pop shops that are asking kids to take off their hoods, but it will be wal-mart, target and home depot all telling you that you must have a shaved head, no facial hair and white shirt, blue jeans to enter any of their stores... and this is at the point where wal-mart is the only option to shop.

I doubt that. Huge stores like Walmart and Home Depot are less vulnerable to roving bands of thugs annoying customers, or grabbing stuff and running out. Sheer size alone makes that less than practical, plus they have much more sophisticated camera systems. It is a lot easier for them to aim cameras at faces as people walk in the door and then track them through the store.

Plus I have never seen large groups of teenagers hang out for hours or strut around looking “cool” and in the process discourage regular paying customers at those stores. Sure at Walmart there may be huge families with 9 children blocking aisles, and sometimes they are rude and annoying, but they are there to actually BUY STUFF.

Grant it there have been a lot of smash and grab robberies at malls here, sheesh even Bloomingdales was hit the other day, groups of hood wearing thugs grabbing a bunch of designer handbags at Bloomingdales and dashing out. But again the department stores are often set up differently, they often do not expect that so they are not laid out to prevent it.

Originally posted by Sonya610
I doubt that. Huge stores like Walmart and Home Depot are less vulnerable to roving bands of thugs annoying customers, or grabbing stuff and running out. Sheer size alone makes that less than practical, plus they have much more sophisticated camera systems. It is a lot easier for them to aim cameras at faces as people walk in the door and then track them through the store.

exactly. and thats whats replacing mom & pop stores. After wal-mart is #1, who is to say they can't pass a "store policy" that bans anything they find offensive in the store. It would be pretty easy to use walmart as prototype for a transition into lots of various scenarios.

Of course, you are ok with that - but I think that's the opposite direction I want o be headed.

Originally posted by scientist
exactly. and thats whats replacing mom & pop stores. After wal-mart is #1, who is to say they can't pass a "store policy" that bans anything they find offensive in the store. It would be pretty easy to use walmart as prototype for a transition into lots of various scenarios.

I think you are being very insensitive to the needs and issues facing PRIVATE SMALL business owners here. As stated some shops here have HAD to close because the robberies are so frequent they are losing money (and these are SMALL business owners that truly do not have a choice).

This is NOT the government imposing these rules. These are PRIVATE business owners. And yes malls suffer worse than most, with the economy the way it is they are already seeing a slump in business.

And the people on this thread that keep screaming "but I always wear hoodies" annoy me, it is about keeping the HOOD DOWN, not about banning anyone that happens to have a hood on their coat.

"You are this" and "You are that" is getting close to becoming personal again.

Please refrain from judging each other. There is already one warning in this thread to refrain from personal attacks.

This is the pre-emptive second.