Hoodies, hats banned from shops

reply to post by WishForWings


How exactly is it discriminatory? Does a certain type of person wear them? I mean I wear one in the winter, yet I would not see it as discriminatory. You may think it is stupid but you can always drop the hood down when in doors or take it off, or you could just not go there and choose another place to go. There are plenty of places I choose not to go too because I think their ideas of business and rules do not match my own.


Taking it to court would be a waste of money. Privately owned businesses have the right to serve or not to serve. If you want the courts and government involved you take away private business and the owner’s rights to conduct business as they see fit. We are not talking about refusal to serve for race, sex, sexual orientation, or even religion. Such refusal would be discriminatory and could cost business even without a much needed lawsuit. But to take this to court would be a waste. Again the private owner has the right to set rules into place for their business that they feel is appropriate.

Raist

I work in a small Bar with video Poker Machines, because the machiens take in several Thousand dollors a day the state requires us to have security camra's. However the company I work for had several locations robed at gun point, some where caught and some got away.

anyhow this lead to magneticly locked doors and a camera outside this worked well untill some one used a hoodie to hide his face and the bartender let him in. so anyhow the point is that now if some ones comes to the door with a Hat, hoodie tobogin or anything like them we refuse to let them in and guess what we have had 1 Roberies since this was put in effect and the guy actually took the hood down and looked right in the camera so he would be let in he was caught the same day too. That was over a year ago !

You have to wear shirts and shoes to get service.

I am kinda for this. The other day I stopped at a conveinance store. It was 91 degrees out.
There was a guy standing there with a full hoodie, which was up.Full sweatpants and was just standing there with his hands in his pockets.

Now that didn't look suspicious. And I wasn't too comfortable either.

Not everyone who wears these things is a hoodlam. (can I still say that word?)
But problem is that some folks do. So a blanket ban is the only way to handle it.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
a blanket ban is the only way to handle it.

really, the only way? how much thought have you put into this before resigning yourself to an extreme? How much have any of you thought about this?

This is just as dumb as the "saggy pants" ban. And again, it targets minorities and youth. Oh well.

already in force in the u'k mate, but then again im not against it.
as this i look is far to common over here, and is often related to young wannabe "gangsters"



this is a common site in the u.k and it aint pretty.

Originally posted by scientist
This is just as dumb as the "saggy pants" ban. And again, it targets minorities and youth. Oh well.

Those poor minority youths. They make an effort to look like thugs and gang members, and then people actually think maybe they should be concerned that they might actually BE thugs and gang members.

It just makes no sense, no sense at all!

Originally posted by Sonya610
It just makes no sense, no sense at all!

What doesn't make sense, is the logic you are using to correlate a fashion trend (albeit dated and unpractical) to crime. This is the equivalent of thinking anyone wearing a hijab ("towel" for the ignorant) is a terrorist.

That is also the mentality that agent provocateurs feast upon. The good news is, I'm not worried about changing your mind on the matter. I just like to point these things out, so that hopefully it makes someone else think about it, that isn't quite as set into that type of logic yet.

Originally posted by scientist
I just like to point these things out, so that hopefully it makes someone else think about it, that isn't quite as set into that type of logic yet.

Maybe it is something YOU should think about. You are so focused on big brother, you fail to see that some elements of society are running wild and fueling the fear of the masses.

I do not like government control, I also live where thugs are a much bigger threat. Getting robbed by baggy pants/hood wearing little creeps is a real consideration in some places.

You focus on the theoretical (big brother). I worry about that, but I also realize that when I go into the local gas station I had best be prepared to face the hood wearing thugs. They have had robberies and shootings and there is nothing "theoretical" or "conspiratory" about it.

reply to post by Sonya610


Sorry, my mistake. Your paranoia is way more validated than mine. That's both an amusing and ironic hypocrisy. You fear people because of the clothes they are wearing. I fear people who hold unchecked power over me.

Clearly, I should think about this some more.

reply to post by scientist


Thank you for your response. And trust me it is true, when one lives in an area with predators they become sensitive to the signs.

If they are wearing baggy clothes and hoods and keeping their head down I am going to notice and I know what it could mean, they know what it means too.

And yes I can tell the difference between gangly shy teenagers hiding under their clothes and others.

Originally posted by Sonya610
If they are wearing baggy clothes and hoods and keeping their head down I am going to notice and I know what it could mean, they know what it means too.

I can agree with that. You become more aware of your surroundings. That seems like a valid response to someone wearing a hoodie (or baggy clothes I suppose). An example of an invalid response would be to alert authorities, persuade the person to remove their hoodie, or trying to ban hoodies altogether.

To be fair, yes "they" know what it means too, but the hood on a hoodie serves an actual purpose, as does a hat. Both are intentionally designed to create an obstruction between your face, and the elements (sun, wind, rain, etc.) One side effect of this function, is that it also obstructs vision. Until recently, this wasn't so much of a concern - but these days people are so nosy, they want to know who you are, what you are doing, what you are looking at, who you are talking to, etc.

Seriously, once you have cameras everywhere, and once you have banned obstruction-based headwear from places with cameras - how hard would it be to add facial recognition and stored logs of all video from now on? (that's rhetorical, it's extremely easy).

Perhaps part of my problem regarding this issue, is that I see what it represents not just now, but in the future as well. I'm not John Titor or anything, I just have a thing for spotting trends, and unfortunately I'm pretty accurate. It's a blessing and a curse.

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by logician magician

Q: What are you talking about? How can a nightclub

Nightclub???? Huh???? Where in that article does it mention a nightclub???

They are referring to a Shopping Centre (a Mall for Americans). It is a place for people and families to shop, not privately owned like a nightclub.

[edit on 4/9/2008 by Kryties]

Yes, malls and shopping centers are in fact privately owned. They have the right to state what can and can't be worn there, just like a nightclub. If people don't like it, then they need to show their displeasure by not shopping at that place anymore. When stores start to close, then the people that made the rule will understand they made a mistake. If however, people start shopping more because they feel safer for whatever reason cause they suck at life and are wusses, then the people who own the center have won.

Edit to add: aybe parents should start taking...GASP...Responsibility for raising their kids so that stores don't have to start banning things like hoods and hats. And the general populace needs to know how to bring a beat down to punks that think robbing people is cool.

[edit on 9/5/2008 by Finn1916]

Originally posted by scientist
Perhaps part of my problem regarding this issue, is that I see what it represents not just now, but in the future as well. I'm not John Titor or anything, I just have a thing for spotting trends, and unfortunately I'm pretty accurate. It's a blessing and a curse.

Yeah the trend you are spotting is the trend of people fearing robbery and assault. Do you think the government cares if criminals intimidate the populace? Do you? Big brother is more than HAPPY to have the average person worrying about thugs that may rob them, beat them, shoot them etc... If the average person is worried about being killed by a criminal they won't be worried about government control!

You my dear are being fooled. Predators are real, they have always existed and they exist now. You are being fooled into thinking they do NOT exist, that they are harmless. And you think you have ONE enemy; either the government or the poor down trodden criminals that would cut your throat for $2 if they were given the chance.

Wake up. It is not "us or them". There are many forces at play.

I will take it a step further, there are many that believe the western governments WANT to increase crime, want to destabilize cultures, they crave it because they realize that by introducing violence and mayhem into civilized societies they can gain MORE control.

[edit on 5-9-2008 by Sonya610]

judging by some of the comments claming this is discrimination you would feel no concern if you where at your local bank and some teenagers walk in wearing skymask just because its cool yeah I'm absolutly sure you wouldn't crap your pants !

Originally posted by Sonya610
Do you think the government cares if criminals intimidate the populace? Do you?

No, they don't even care that they themselves intimidate the populace (by current design), why would they care about criminals.

You my dear are being fooled. Predators are real, they have always existed and they exist now. You are being fooled into thinking they do NOT exist, that they are harmless.

You are making a pretty long list of assumptions on who I am, and what I have been through. Without getting into a pissing match, let's just say I am more than aware of what a predator is, and I am pretty well traveled. I do believe they exist, however the difference between us, is that I do not think that oppressing people further is the solution.

And you think you have ONE enemy; either the government or the poor down trodden criminals that would cut your throat for $2 if they were given the chance.

Wake up. It is not "us or them". There are many forces at play.

Being ambiguous for the element of mystery, or just because you have run out of substance?

Originally posted by scientist
Being ambiguous for the element of mystery, or just because you have run out of substance?

Do not default into cattiness. I have honestly been impressed by your candor so far. I expected my comments to set off a hysterical non-sensical rant, but you have responded in an intelligent manner.

So I do not know who you are. True. I have share a bit about who i am, what my reality is like. I am astute enough to realize your anger came from somewhere.

Do not dissappoint. Speak your truth without turning to propaganda.

I am genuinely interested in what you were leading onto. It seems you stopped mid sentence:

Wake up. It is not "us or them". There are many forces at play.

... so, what are the many forces, and how does that affect your admitted paranoia towards people that wear baggy clothes and hoodies? (I am not trying to demean your concerns, however I may sound blunt for the sake of brevity). Also, there are a few keys on my keyboard that don't always work, so it's extra work for me to type out anything of length, that also uses the letters "t" or "d."

I am astute enough to realize your anger came from somewhere.

I've only been angry a few times on ATS, and that results in me logging off for a week or so, and coming back - as opposed to posting. I might respond passive aggressively at worst, but hopefully not perceived as anger.

Originally posted by scientist
I fear people who hold unchecked power over me.

Damn straight. That's the truth.

Even worse, is when we live in a system that has unchecked power over me. So the person cuffing me is only doing their job if I wear a hood? Yeah, right...

Originally posted by scientist
I am genuinely interested in what you were leading onto. It seems you stopped mid sentence:

Wake up. It is not "us or them". There are many forces at play.

Oh that. I am not alluding to some weird new conspiracy theory. Humans are very often vicious little animals, some prefer power from a mansion and enjoy sending others off to die in wars of moral superiority, others like to take things in hand and rob-rape-kill-steal in person. Same animal, different expressions.

I've only been angry a few times on ATS, and that results in me logging off for a week or so, and coming back - as opposed to posting. I might respond passive aggressively at worst, but hopefully not perceived as anger.

Your anger is rather obvious. Seriously. I have noticed your comments on a few threads, I even tried to call you out earlier on this one (few pages back). What gets me is you are focused on the government and yet so nurturing of the criminal underclass. At least that is how I see it.

And this bit about “fashion” is weak. You know that. Okay some kids are shy and like to wear baggy clothes, but lets not confuse them with those that try INTENTIONALLY to look like a menace. There is a difference and you know it.

But I love wearing my hoodie, and besides... hoodies dont really cover your face. I would be rather worried though if someone walked into my shop with sun glasses and a hood, even though he/she might be trying to be cool it would be a little intimidating. But who wears sun glasses and a hood in doors any how.