Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
I'm sorry but i will again bring up the central premise of all of this, which basically invalidates the thread.

If a government said we couldn't enter a shopping area because of our cloths, then i'd be asking for a revolt. However we are talking about a private enterprise!!! That is the major difference.

and again, i'll bring up the underlying concept (aka reality) that private businesses have been getting swallowed up at increasing rates by large corporations. Once you have corporations telling you what to wear, how to act, etc. well, let's just say there's already a name for that.

edit: although to add, I do agree. Mom & pop shops have all the right in the world to make themselves feel safer. If banning hoods in your store helps you feel safer, by all means. That sentiment becomes invalid once people don't have the choice to go somewhere that allows hoods.

Once everyplace bans hoods, that's starting to head down he wrong path. The debate in this thread is largely centered around the idea that many people don't seem to have a problem with that extreme case, nor do they understand how small of a step it is from one to the other.

[edit on 12-9-2008 by scientist]

My hoodie is one of my favorite pieces of clothing to wear. No, I'm not a teenager, but like it should matter.

If people truly wanted to hide their identity, they'd wear a damn mask - not a hoodie. Hoodies just happen to have a big hole right where the face is! Hats? Come on! Bad hair day? I love to wear a hat! And a lot of people - old and young - wear hats and hoodies! This ban is ridiculous.

Anyway, you have a choice here folks - you always do. People will take your power when you give it away. I would never set foot in such a shopping mall with a dress code like that. No way, no how. I'm not giving up my right to wear what I want, and what is comfortable and convenient for me.

There are other ways of addressing this problem without taking intrusive actions towards everybody. Schedule extra security on Thurs. night.

Ever hear of "tip-toe totalitarianism"? The more of these little bits of freedom we are willing to give away "for our safety" - the more they add up - and the bigger the chunks we seem to be willing to give away. Without saying no, there will be no freedom left - and how can you truly feel safe when you have no freedom to control your own safety?

Based on the responses...I suspect that you all (those that say banning certain attire violates rights when choosing to enter private property for the purpose of commerce) have absolutely NO CLUE.

You think the big bad government is scary? It is the least of your concerns when you face real crimimals. It is not theoretical. It is not something you read about. It is reality. Do you have a clue about reality? I honestly do not think most that say "why you banning my hoodie man" have a clue. I think they speak juvenile nonsense. Hoodies are NOT being banned, covering your face and head ARE being banned by private property owners. Yes they pay for the property, and they have rights. Or should the rights of private property owners be abolished? Do tell.

Harsh words huh? Judgemental? Yes, there are different opinions on this topic and throwing insults does not help matters.



[edit on 12-9-2008 by Sonya610]

When I was a freshmen in college (way back in 1992) - I lived in a little Texas town and there was a little mall, privately owned, that forbade certain types of "gang related colors", certain clothes, certain headgear, and so forth...

...this isn't something new.

I remember laughing back then about how silly it is that certain subcultures make such a big deal about "their right" to do whatever they want, wherever they want.

Solution? Take your business elsewhere.

Unless it really IS nothing more than a "territorial issue" with these kids, in which case, I think they're probably spending more time loitering than buying anyway.

But I digress....

Sry guys, i've came into this very late, and flicked thru the first couple of pages of posts, and tehre's a lot of talk about a police state in Britain, and sorry if you disagree but this country is completely the opposite imo. I'm far from living out the way of it all, in fact i'm about 20 doors down from the point where Luke Howard was stabbed brutality a week or two ago.

In Liverpool, all shops, large and small were issued BY the police with posters labelled 'Hats off to beat crime' which includes hoodies. Nobody here (don't know what the specific rules of the centre are) is saying that they can't wear the hoodies, just that they must take the hats/hoods down in the shop for identification reasons should they decide to steal.

As for the police state, this is utter BS. The youth (and i use the term loosely, i'm only 20 myself) of today know f**k all about anything, well in the school i went to they didn't apart from one thing; Their rights.
As soon as they're approached by an officer who asks to turn their pockets they instinctively know what they can and can't do. And say they're found guilty of murder for example. they get life. BUT, what's a life sentence in the UK? You can be out of prison in under ten years on varying conditions. Police have no real deterrent, no support from the law and no support physically. Even batons have been contested against by certain groups as 'too aggressive'. I only know this because you see them wandering around, and if they see a large gang, in my area they'll cross the street to avoid.
Like anybody else, they're afraid, and who can blame them? They have 'police officer' status. Whats' that going to get them if some little b*****d with a wooden stick wants to show off to his friends?

The only law here that gives police excessive power is probably the terrorism detention law of 28 days, which I do think is a little much, but at the same time can understand the caution. Just my opinion guys. I'll admit, i don't live in fear, i have nothing to do with the scum wandering around the streets beause i know i can hold my own, but i'm screwed if they have a knife and that's extremely likely these days.

I just came across an old song that instantly reminded me of this thread. Here are some of the lyrics, from a song called "Food for Thought:"

Why is it that people judge ****** by how they look
Why is it that hoodies on my head makes me a crook
Why is it that people got to struggle to survive
Why is it that nine to five is harder to get in ninety-five

So...

clothes are forbidden
sunglasses are forbidden
leaves...?
paper?


come one...is this serious? really?

hey---those who want to hide will always find a disguise
and all the other have to go naked ....rofl

Being a privately owned property, it is their right to enforce whatever laws they like. However, I believe that the mentality of "we can't control this so lets make up some rediculous law to punish everyone" has to stop. We really need to focus on education and combatting poverty instead of banning hoodies. Some one get me off this rock!

A word of advice to the Australians from people trapped in the UK,

DO NOT VOTE FOR LABOUR IF YOU WANT TO AVOID STUFF LIKE THIS.

I believe you currently have a labour government in power and thus it looks like you've started heading down the same slippery slope like the UK have over the past 11 years. You really don't want to end up like the UK.

So be careful or soon you'll have the smoking police, fat police, rubbish checkers the list goes on and on.

A teacher of mine once told us about having seen a plainclothes security guard trailing a group of teenagers around the mall. She then looks into the next aisle over and sees a 60-something year old stuffing her purse with facecloths. A friend of mine also went through this sort of discrimination. He went into a corner store that had been robbed a few weeks ago. The clerk followed him until he left. And before you ask, yes, I'm a teenager.

Originally posted by TruthTellist
The kiddies will start wearing Shawls and Turbans

Then their rights will be specifically protected by the Law. We can't discriminate now can we?

England is a joke. They are screwed. They have allowed the police state to infiltrate almost every facet of their lives and have managed to rationalize this perversion being perpetrated against them.

You are too right. I live in England and am proud of my heritage, proud of my country's history. However I am anything but proud over our current condition. If I go in wearing a turban (no offense intended to anyone) noone will stop me they will be too damn scared. But i wear a hoodie or a cap that covers my face its, we don't want your type here. What are kids supposed to do; throw out there wardrobe and spend all their money buying a new one because the clothes they wear are no longer acceptable, go in wearing only a T-shirt even though its the middle of winter and it is literally freezing or maybe they are supposed to just stay away from shops altogether and wait for others to buy their clothes for them.

Our government has gone too far and really needs to be replaced. The very thought of telling people what clothes they are and aren't allowed to wear is ridiculous and should be a warning of an over controlling government with too much power. It is time that people realised that the British government has gone too far and needs to be stopped.