I WAS THERE: The protest march on the RNC in Saint Paul 9-2-08: FULL REPORT

Originally posted by Dronetek
reply to post by LoneGunMan

 

I am facing foreclosure myself and will soon have nothing

95% of people are paying their bills. Why cant you? Especially since you're in a steady job?

What a jerk.

Because my grown daughter and husband fell on hard times because of the Michigan economy is failing. They have my three grandchidren and we made deep sacrifice for them.

What have YOU done in your life that is the right thing?

Originally posted by Dronetek
reply to post by Tomme73

 

Again, there was tons of security in Denver and there were riot police beating down hippies. Do any of you actually watch the news?

You are a traitor to this country. Some of us are not brainwashed by our church leaders and are REAL American patriots.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
My position swayed towards your side after that. Now I see pictures & video of rioters in St Paul breaking storefront windows & throwing rocks & bottles at a United States flag hanging behind a store window... screw you all, my position has swung back the other way and you're back to being a bunch of malcontented miscreants to me. See how this works? If your claims & concerns are legitimate, protest within the boundary of the law and the trouble will come to you and you'll sway people to your side as a result.

They were cops. I know a few deputy Sheriffs that were going to go there themselves as provocateurs. Dont let yourself be fooled. These guys I knew were baptists Christian deputies and wanted to see some "hippies get what was coming to them" no matter if they had to break the law to do it or not.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by LoneGunMan]

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by Dronetek
reply to post by LoneGunMan

 

I am facing foreclosure myself and will soon have nothing

95% of people are paying their bills. Why cant you? Especially since you're in a steady job?

What a jerk.

Because my grown daughter and husband fell on hard times because of the Michigan economy is failing. They have my three grandchidren and we made deep sacrifice for them.

What have YOU done in your life that is the right thing?

Sounds like it was your choice. Why is Bush or the government to blame? How does voting Barack fix that? You think hes going to give you money?

You are a traitor to this country. Some of us are not brainwashed by our church leaders and are REAL American patriots.

Typical democrat logic. I don't agree with you, so I'm not a patriot. Well, I served my country, went to war zones and served with honor. What have you done?

I haven't been to a church since I was a kid and don't beleive in organized religion. You obviously have a problem with religious people though, right? Sounds like you are perfect for the democrats. You blame everyone else for your problems and hate religious people.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by Dronetek]

reply to post by LoneGunMan


Good for you for knowing a couple loudmouths, but it doesn't change the facts. Anybody who believes that anyone busting windows, or looting, or throwing crap at the cops, or breaking the law during one of these protests is a police "plant" is dilusional. I suppose you believe that Watts was a bunch of black cops in street clothes, the WTO riots in Seattle involved a bunch of crooked federal agents disguised as grungers, or Hurricane Katrina was actually Karl Rove after an especially strong espresso in the French Quarter...

Obviously not all the protesters are looking to act like animals in the zoo, just like obviously all cops aren't just looking for an excuse to bust heads. The problem as I see it is you've got a group of people here who are voiciferously attacking the police & the system because of a few bad seeds while vehemently defending protesters as a whole and trying to excuse or ignore the fact that the protesters have just as many bad seeds as the police do. You can attempt to make the argument that the police's bad seeds are worse because they are supposed to protect & serve... but IMHO EVERY American has a duty to uplift America, show a little pride & respect for the country & her flag, OUR flag, MY flag, and not act like the zookeeper just tossed enough food for 4 monkeys into a cage holding 8 of them. That duty covers EVERYONE, cops, civillians, everyone, and if someone refuses to uphold that duty they don't deserve the protection of the law, the Constitution, or the system.

But that's just my opinion.

You obviously fail to see the real problem here.

Right about HERE is the problem:
The order to disperse seemed only to encourage the crowd to disobey the police.

I don't blame the police for the ignorance of the crowd.

Original poster said:
"A short time ago Barack Obama held a rally at the very SAME venue: the Excel Center. It was there that he accepted his nomination for President by the Democratic Party...."

Actually he accepted it at Invesco Field in Denver. What event are you talking about?

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Ya'll aren't getting the 'Big Picture'.

People want to protest something, like G-8 or the DNC, or even RNC;
then thugs come out and mess it up (on purpose)
to disenfranchise the mainstream public;
Then NOBODY wants to protest AND police can crackdown on those who do.

EXCELLENT reporting from the RNC. and EXCELLENT observation skills! you should be an investigator!
i see some of the dreaming goon lovers here would have relished an incedent.
myself , having watched practice runs for Kent State, and also privey to prvocateurs inciting crowds at the rallies in the 70s, i am familiar with the sub intelligence agents who are hired to do this.
they are usually uneducated grunts or lower rank, expendable, and dumb about it.
they USED to be run by the LEIU, Law Enforcement Intelligence Unit.
and a pathetic bunch.
i have EVEN seen them attend the million man marches hoping to incite racial riots.
glad to see a bunch of "hippie liberals" wise to thier ways.

well, again,GREAT observating, and reporting.
we may get this country back yet!-evutch.

Wow did one of the posts really call the cops covering the RNC "trigger happy"??? How misguided you are my friend. I read the posts on here daily mainly keeping my mouth closed cuz you all know more than me about most subjects on here but as for this one you do not! I know a number of law enforcement officers covering the RNC and for you to bad mouth them and say things like there are borderline criminal is hilarious. I love people who bad mouth cops (even the "REBEL" college kids) because the moment you need assistance you are dialing the number without a second thought. And for those who are just at the RNC cuz they wanna be a rebel have you forgotten what being a rebel means? You are just part of the "hippie" majority now. Doesn't take too much courage to join the crowd now does it? I am gladly the minority on this thread and invite anyone to discuss this further. I have nothing against you (any of you for that matter) and just because I disagree withthe way you think doesn't mean I am anymore right than you are, but please don't bad mouth all the police officers covering the RNC. You guys had your protest and that is what the permit was for and you were told to leave(which by you post sounds like you did) and that is why what happened happened.

I've watched probably a couple of hours worth of footage from St. Paul today on liveleak and youtube today. I have the following observations. I do notice that there is a violent element within certain segments of protesters, I don't have any problems with them ending up with some lumps or a face full of dispersal agent. This element seems small, but is getting alot of the attention as usual and making the story about them as opposed to whatever reasons others are there.

The police by an large seem to be doing a decent job. I have a couple of problems with how they are doing it that I'll get to in a moment. So far, the really clear pictures I've seen of police using pepper spray or tear gas have been IMHO reasonable uses of those things. One example of this is the cop dragging the guy off the bus being blindsided while trying to apprehend the guy, and clearing the area after he was hit. Another example is the footage I saw with a line of protesters trying to cross a police line of bicycle cops.There are a more instances I've seen where the action was too far away from whoever was taking the footage to really have a good opinion. On the other hand, I've also noticed that I'm not seeing cameras amongst the police arrest teams. That's going to make prosecution of anyone arrested dificult if not imposible. It's also going to expose the city of St. Paul and State of Minnesotta to alot of lawsuits. I get the idea that for those they are arresting, it's more important to get them off the streets till the RNC is over than to have a prosecutable case. I also noticed one instance that really bothered me where police blocked all means of egress from the area and then started gassing the tail end of a protest march and leaving them nowhere to go. It was being filmed from a boat in the river so I can't speak as to whether the gas was justified, but I found it highly interesting that a USCG boat boarded the boat with M-4's in a very intimidating fashion that I found personally beyond the scope of what I consider acceptable in a free society. Here is what I'm talking about. Like most of the videos on youtube it's very onesided, but I find it somewhat shocking that they were stopped and boarded with m-4s for simply filming arrests.

I'm sure there are other great bits of footage floating around out there, and if I see anything interesting I'll be sure to post my thoughts.

Protesting something you have no idea of what or why you’re protesting?

There are Wars all the Time as there has been ever since Man set foot on this Earth. As much as you want an end to War, it will never happen so long as 2 people cannot get along!!!

Hmmm-Great idea, let's all go to a concert, get high before we get there, then protest the RNC.

Sounds like a Great Plan, then we add in the self proclaimed Anarchists who want to have "Mad Max" all over America with no Law, just the Law of the Jungle. Sounds like a Wonderful plan to your group.

Get a Job, go to work and earn a living OP. Quit living (or sponging) off your Parents wealth or is it your Trust Fund that allows you to go places and Protest?

Call me the Devils advocate here.

Maybe, just maybe you can get your wish! The Military members here in America will use our training to take back the streets of America and install New Government of the People For the People with the Guidance of the Military!

Sounds like a Plan! To bad we have a Constitution that outlaws that...

Wait, the Anarchists want to shred the Constitution.

Then you will be living in a Militaristic Society where the only rights you will have are granted by the will of the Military Officer appointed over your district.

Hmm, let’s pay higher taxes, higher energy prices and live in a Country where we have only the super rich and poor just like what they have in Socialist Countries. Better yet for the Liberals in America, that’s what they want.

Be careful what you wish for my Protesting Friend, you might just find your World turned upside down.

Welcome to Barrack Hussein Obama and the North American Union of Socialist States.

This message was funded in part by George Sorrels and the Socialist Party of America.

May God watch over us all, welcome to the REAL WORLD!

reply to post by deltaboy


The simple fact that some of these protesters were wearing face masks is evidence enough in my opinion of their unlawful intentions. The police should be allowed to break out the rubber bullets and bean bag guns to deal with them.

These are morons with obviously too much time of their hands. I'd fill their days out for them with some jail time and community service cleaning up the mess they made.


[edit on 3-9-2008 by LLoyd45]

reply to post by Clearskies


No, no. I'm not agreeing with the pinhole view of the situation you wish I was seeing alongside you. I get the big picture all too well. The big picture is you have some cases of planted dissenters who are causing some pots to boil over, to be sure, but you also have some honest to goodness violent "protesters" who feel the best way to bring about change is through acts of violent sedition & wanton destruction of property. You'd like everyone to believe that all the rioters & looters have either been egged on by government plants or, even better, are all government plants themselves, to give the police an excuse to gas the crowd and scare everyone off of protesting all together.

The reality of the situation, as is the case with most everything in this many shades of grey world we live in, lies somewhere between "bloodthirsty mob" and "undercover rioter conspiracy." I'm not stupid enough to believe that there aren't protesters out there who's number one goal is merely to cause as much chaos as possible to try and intimidate and frighten voters into not voting for Republican candidates lest the violence spills over into their cities as well.

Look at France in 2005. Are you going to tell me that whole incident was a bunch of undercover government agents looting, burning, and rampaging across the countryside? There is a faction of restless malcontents around the globe who actively want chaos and violence in the name of protest and who believe that violent anarchy is the way to go about change. We see some of that mentallity here on ATS when certain loudmouthed, big talking yambags pipe in with their "I hope they burn down government building XYZ" or "I hope a mob of people rise up and take down the pigs" rhetoric. Are those posters government agents as well? (That was a rhetorical question because I'm sure there are some out there who believe every one of them actually is a government plant.)

Do these forums not have mods? Why is it allowed for people who just keep calling names and making broad stupid statements allowed to keep on posting and turn threads into crap?

There are obviously people in this thread who are just trying to spread hate, make people angry and try to derail the issues.

And it's allowed?

Whats funny is these same people seem to be the ones who wish to label the protesters as such, while not even being able to act civil in a discussion forum.

Just ridiculous.

reply to post by AllSeeingI


History repeats itself in one form or another. Riots will continue whether it's a war cause or other belief system that humans are engaged in and there will be no resolution until someone greater than any us ends the chaos once and for all.

The world is in turmoil and greed/yearning for power plays a huge role in the problems of our society. The time is coming very soon when there will be no 'parties' such as Democrat, Republicans, Liberals, etc. to create division of peoples beliefs. This is what the words "New World Order" is all about...a One World Government.

Everything the ancient book prophesized is unfolding right before your eyes. I challenge anyone reading this post to research "The New World Order and you'll be amazed at what information you'll learn.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Then why do they always look the same?
black sweatsuits and masks with bandannas and violence that Doesn't help our rights?

About France, here's a possibility;
Neo-con fascism.

reply to post by AllSeeingI


This was a great article, but I'd have to say it's more of the local police departments fault for using unnecessary force rather then blaming the republican party officials, who aren't even elected yet to office, for what happened. There is a very unpopular war going on right now and certain figures (namely RATM's front man) have been known to cause riots. Rage Against the Machine doesn't exactly hit people on the same rebellious emotional level as say, Joni Mitchell--let's face it. As for the undercover police trying to incite violence, I completely believe you. It sounds very plausible, to say the least.

reply to post by dariousg


I am so saddened that ATS members are so ignorant that they star stuff like this. ATS is no longer a place to deny ignorance, but instead a place where people spend all their time weaving elaborate conspiracies to explain the mundane - without evidence. But it doesn't matter. People WANT to believe the government spends their time trying to incite riots because it conforms to what they WANT to believe - that the government is evil and out to get them. Evidence is no longer needed on ATS - just tell people what they want to hear.