I WAS THERE: The protest march on the RNC in Saint Paul 9-2-08: FULL REPORT, page 6

Originally posted by Dronetek
reply to post by LoneGunMan

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I am facing foreclosure myself and will soon have nothing

95% of people are paying their bills. Why cant you? Especially since you're in a steady job?

What a jerk.

Because my grown daughter and husband fell on hard times because of the Michigan economy is failing. They have my three grandchidren and we made deep sacrifice for them.

What have YOU done in your life that is the right thing?

Originally posted by Dronetek
reply to post by Tomme73

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Again, there was tons of security in Denver and there were riot police beating down hippies. Do any of you actually watch the news?

You are a traitor to this country. Some of us are not brainwashed by our church leaders and are REAL American patriots.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by Dronetek
reply to post by LoneGunMan

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I am facing foreclosure myself and will soon have nothing

95% of people are paying their bills. Why cant you? Especially since you're in a steady job?

What a jerk.

Because my grown daughter and husband fell on hard times because of the Michigan economy is failing. They have my three grandchidren and we made deep sacrifice for them.

What have YOU done in your life that is the right thing?

Sounds like it was your choice. Why is Bush or the government to blame? How does voting Barack fix that? You think hes going to give you money?

You are a traitor to this country. Some of us are not brainwashed by our church leaders and are REAL American patriots.

Typical democrat logic. I don't agree with you, so I'm not a patriot. Well, I served my country, went to war zones and served with honor. What have you done?

I haven't been to a church since I was a kid and don't beleive in organized religion. You obviously have a problem with religious people though, right? Sounds like you are perfect for the democrats. You blame everyone else for your problems and hate religious people.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by Dronetek]

reply to post by LoneGunMan

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Good for you for knowing a couple loudmouths, but it doesn't change the facts. Anybody who believes that anyone busting windows, or looting, or throwing crap at the cops, or breaking the law during one of these protests is a police "plant" is dilusional. I suppose you believe that Watts was a bunch of black cops in street clothes, the WTO riots in Seattle involved a bunch of crooked federal agents disguised as grungers, or Hurricane Katrina was actually Karl Rove after an especially strong espresso in the French Quarter...

Obviously not all the protesters are looking to act like animals in the zoo, just like obviously all cops aren't just looking for an excuse to bust heads. The problem as I see it is you've got a group of people here who are voiciferously attacking the police & the system because of a few bad seeds while vehemently defending protesters as a whole and trying to excuse or ignore the fact that the protesters have just as many bad seeds as the police do. You can attempt to make the argument that the police's bad seeds are worse because they are supposed to protect & serve... but IMHO EVERY American has a duty to uplift America, show a little pride & respect for the country & her flag, OUR flag, MY flag, and not act like the zookeeper just tossed enough food for 4 monkeys into a cage holding 8 of them. That duty covers EVERYONE, cops, civillians, everyone, and if someone refuses to uphold that duty they don't deserve the protection of the law, the Constitution, or the system.

But that's just my opinion.

reply to post by burdman30ott6

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Ya'll aren't getting the 'Big Picture'.

People want to protest something, like G-8 or the DNC, or even RNC;
then thugs come out and mess it up (on purpose)
to disenfranchise the mainstream public;
Then NOBODY wants to protest AND police can crackdown on those who do.

I've watched probably a couple of hours worth of footage from St. Paul today on liveleak and youtube today. I have the following observations. I do notice that there is a violent element within certain segments of protesters, I don't have any problems with them ending up with some lumps or a face full of dispersal agent. This element seems small, but is getting alot of the attention as usual and making the story about them as opposed to whatever reasons others are there.

The police by an large seem to be doing a decent job. I have a couple of problems with how they are doing it that I'll get to in a moment. So far, the really clear pictures I've seen of police using pepper spray or tear gas have been IMHO reasonable uses of those things. One example of this is the cop dragging the guy off the bus being blindsided while trying to apprehend the guy, and clearing the area after he was hit. Another example is the footage I saw with a line of protesters trying to cross a police line of bicycle cops.There are a more instances I've seen where the action was too far away from whoever was taking the footage to really have a good opinion. On the other hand, I've also noticed that I'm not seeing cameras amongst the police arrest teams. That's going to make prosecution of anyone arrested dificult if not imposible. It's also going to expose the city of St. Paul and State of Minnesotta to alot of lawsuits. I get the idea that for those they are arresting, it's more important to get them off the streets till the RNC is over than to have a prosecutable case. I also noticed one instance that really bothered me where police blocked all means of egress from the area and then started gassing the tail end of a protest march and leaving them nowhere to go. It was being filmed from a boat in the river so I can't speak as to whether the gas was justified, but I found it highly interesting that a USCG boat boarded the boat with M-4's in a very intimidating fashion that I found personally beyond the scope of what I consider acceptable in a free society. Here is what I'm talking about. Like most of the videos on youtube it's very onesided, but I find it somewhat shocking that they were stopped and boarded with m-4s for simply filming arrests.

I'm sure there are other great bits of footage floating around out there, and if I see anything interesting I'll be sure to post my thoughts.

reply to post by deltaboy

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The simple fact that some of these protesters were wearing face masks is evidence enough in my opinion of their unlawful intentions. The police should be allowed to break out the rubber bullets and bean bag guns to deal with them.

These are morons with obviously too much time of their hands. I'd fill their days out for them with some jail time and community service cleaning up the mess they made.


[edit on 3-9-2008 by LLoyd45]

reply to post by Clearskies

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No, no. I'm not agreeing with the pinhole view of the situation you wish I was seeing alongside you. I get the big picture all too well. The big picture is you have some cases of planted dissenters who are causing some pots to boil over, to be sure, but you also have some honest to goodness violent "protesters" who feel the best way to bring about change is through acts of violent sedition & wanton destruction of property. You'd like everyone to believe that all the rioters & looters have either been egged on by government plants or, even better, are all government plants themselves, to give the police an excuse to gas the crowd and scare everyone off of protesting all together.

The reality of the situation, as is the case with most everything in this many shades of grey world we live in, lies somewhere between "bloodthirsty mob" and "undercover rioter conspiracy." I'm not stupid enough to believe that there aren't protesters out there who's number one goal is merely to cause as much chaos as possible to try and intimidate and frighten voters into not voting for Republican candidates lest the violence spills over into their cities as well.

Look at France in 2005. Are you going to tell me that whole incident was a bunch of undercover government agents looting, burning, and rampaging across the countryside? There is a faction of restless malcontents around the globe who actively want chaos and violence in the name of protest and who believe that violent anarchy is the way to go about change. We see some of that mentallity here on ATS when certain loudmouthed, big talking yambags pipe in with their "I hope they burn down government building XYZ" or "I hope a mob of people rise up and take down the pigs" rhetoric. Are those posters government agents as well? (That was a rhetorical question because I'm sure there are some out there who believe every one of them actually is a government plant.)

reply to post by burdman30ott6

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Then why do they always look the same?
black sweatsuits and masks with bandannas and violence that Doesn't help our rights?

About France, here's a possibility;
Neo-con fascism.

reply to post by AllSeeingI

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This was a great article, but I'd have to say it's more of the local police departments fault for using unnecessary force rather then blaming the republican party officials, who aren't even elected yet to office, for what happened. There is a very unpopular war going on right now and certain figures (namely RATM's front man) have been known to cause riots. Rage Against the Machine doesn't exactly hit people on the same rebellious emotional level as say, Joni Mitchell--let's face it. As for the undercover police trying to incite violence, I completely believe you. It sounds very plausible, to say the least.

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