I WAS THERE: The protest march on the RNC in Saint Paul 9-2-08: FULL REPORT

OP, I really wanted to hear the story from an objective stand point, and I thought that's what I was getting from you up until "I knew he was a government provacateur".

What do we need on ATS more than anything? A clear distinction between objectivity and editorials. I want to know what happened, what you saw and knew, not what you thought. If you want to give your opinion afterwards, that's fine, but tell us the objective story first and in a distinctly different section of your narrative.

You can't get objectivity from the mass media, and it looks like ATS is sliding more and more towards sensationalism instead of rational discussion and objective truths with clearly labeled opinions.

You may have been there, but it's obvious you're biased, and so I don't trust you anymore than I do the reports on msnbc, cnn, or fox.

Originally posted by sos37
reply to post by AllSeeingI

 

Here's another tip for you, genius, real change is said and done with your votes, not with a mass riot.

Agreed.

And when the 'electronic voting machine' manufacturers come out 8 years after the fact and state that their software is faulty and that votes just happened to be lost during some sort of transfer, what then about your votes? You see, we can't even vote properly anymore without the idea or possibility that rigging is going on. There is zero accountability with these voting machines. It's a joke and it has been funded by, yes, I sadly admit it, the party I have voted for in virtually every election I have been able to. The republicans.

Sorry genius, but you see, when people begin to believe that even their votes aren't being counted then you will see more and more protests like this.

reply to post by AllSeeingI


S&F for ya! Thx for reporting.

You quoted this...

The shear size of this 4-day army of enforcers required agencies from across MN and the USA to recruit volunteers . VOLUNTEERS!? No I dont mean these are unpaid volunteers. I mean these are paid mercenaries who WANT to put down protesters!

Here's my question, how do you know they were volunteers? Was it because of what they said made you to assume they were or was there or something you read in the media they were?

I've always known this to be the case in riot police and some of the police force we have today as I've said a many a post on this type of activity. Their behavior is WAY out of control of the normal. Yes, there are a few in every dept, but, on this scale it's obvious.

About 10 minutes later as I was walking to my car I came upon a mini van of riot police just waiting with their side door open. One of them said to me and a friend: “why don’t you throw some rocks or something, we’ve been here all day and haven’t got a chance to get in it" Then they all chuckled.

At this point I would have said, "No sir, the day I decide provoke you riot terrorist won't be with a simple stone and won't be a day that you'll ever forget".

The more I see and read of this behavior the more and more my blood boils.

Originally posted by AllSeeingI


Nothing got burned today. Nothing broken.
I have seen government or police provocateurs in action at the RNC protests. Perhaps they are the ones inciting or causing some of the serious trouble.

Besides if you lump the 1 in a 1000 violent protesters "bad-apples" in with the 999 innocent, free speech, peace loving, citizens... you are a fool.

So, all those broken windows & smashed storefronts in the photos you linked to... police provacateurs in action, eh?

Originally posted by AllSeeingI
It is this mentality which, in my opinion, borders on rampant criminality.

Considering how the 'protesters' (anarchists really) acted, and all their criminal acts, I have to say - RIGHTBACKATCHYA.

Originally posted by AllSeeingI
What trouble is more necessary than the expressing our right to free speech against war and poverty?

Smashing store windows and destroying public and private property isn't 'free speech'. Disobeying the police when they say 'unlawful to assemble here, move along' isn't free speech. It's criminal behavior on the part of the anarchists.

Check out the attack on the officer by a rioter. The rioter disappears back into the crowd.

www.liveleak.com...

Did all the peace loving protesters get their "free bucket of urine" from the anarchists?

See, I'll defend people like the reporter in Denver who's rights truly were violated at the top of my lungs. But when the protesters start smashing crap up, plotting criminal acts like throwing piss on people & kidnapping, or even violate the rights of those who aren't protesting by blocking traffic or preventing them from going about their daily business, you lose my support. Once that line has been crossed it is the job of the police to arrest those who have committed criminal acts of vandalism & destruction of property and disperse those who have become a public nuisance & have interfered with the comings & goings of those not protesting. If it takes teargas, rubber bullets, and police batons to break these up, then that's what it takes.

See what happened here? You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar, protesters! If the police are truly out of control & if the system is truly so corrupt that it is forming a police state around us, then why the need to do something to give the cops a legal reason to bust your dome? Take the ABC reporter for an example... he didn't break the law and he was in the right... and he exposed a huge gaping faultline in the system and in the process scored points for the people pushing the police state concern. My position swayed towards your side after that. Now I see pictures & video of rioters in St Paul breaking storefront windows & throwing rocks & bottles at a United States flag hanging behind a store window... screw you all, my position has swung back the other way and you're back to being a bunch of malcontented miscreants to me. See how this works? If your claims & concerns are legitimate, protest within the boundary of the law and the trouble will come to you and you'll sway people to your side as a result.

www.liveleak.com...

One of the rioters destroying property.

reply to post by Dronetek


Have you any proof there were not any cops mingling in the crowd to provoke a response?Makes a change to see you type here,normaly you spam Ogrish or Liveleak with your warmonger vids

Originally posted by LLoyd45
They're just a bunch of wannabe hippies, that lack the courage to resist the police, but bully elderly people, and throw bleach in their eyes.
The cops should have used a lot more than tear gas on them in my opinion. They need to get a job, and stop trying to suppress others people's rights to free speech and assembly..

O.K., WHO threw bleach at old republicans?
The lady with the flower or Mrs. Goodman?
As we've covered before,
The provocateur caught rock-handed in Canadian protest!
PROVING that they exist and are a POWERFUL part of dis-info!!!!

The Canadian government ADMITTING to the news that it was an agent of theirs!


On the DNC;
Agent provocateurs shy away from camera

Fish out of water

provocateurs planning violence at the DNC.
Caught between a rock and a hard place, they leave with the police at the end! Pretty funny!

These are the black-clothed throwers of rocks and window-breaking goons!

Some of them were recruited!
Moles Wanted
Now, who were the ones identified in the rock-throwing, bleach spraying escapades?

The attack on the Connecticut delegates was a violent counterpoint to an otherwise peaceful anti-war march not far from the Xcel Energy Center convention site. Many protesters involved in the more violent protest were clad in black and identified themselves to reporters as anarchists. They wrought havoc by damaging property and setting at least one fire. Most of the trouble was in pockets of a neighborhood near downtown, several blocks from where the convention was taking place. Police estimates of the crowd shifted several times during the event, ranging from 2,000 to 10,000. The crowd was clearly in the thousands. Five people were arrested for lighting a trash bin on fire Monday and pushing it into a police car, St. Paul police spokesman Tom Walsh said. Authorities didn't have immediate details on the other arrests. The antiwar march was organized by a group called the Coalition to March on the RNC and Stop the War, whose leaders said they hoped for a peaceful, family-friendly event. But police were on high alert after months of preparations by a self-described anarchist group called the RNC Welcoming Committee, which wasn't among the organizers of the march. About 20 people dressed in black tried to block a key intersection. Police quickly dispersed the group, then shot two tear gas canisters at them as the fled. Pictures taken by Associated Press photographers showed officers using pepper spray on people who appeared to be trying to block streets

RNC Welcoming Committee
We're getting ready (*to set everyone up*)

Notice how they give referrences to Food Not Bombs, as if they are connected?!!!
Food Not Bombs
was witness to some of these agents;

The alleged feces was glass jar of coffee with soy milk. About a dozen large Denver police dressed as "anarchists" in new black bandanas and black t-shirts provoked an attack by riot police in Civic Center Park. The plain clothes officers were seen returning to white police vans after their provocation. One officer had a back pack of rocks. Zachary is out on bail waiting trial.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by Clearskies]

Just a few little things:

Originally posted by AllseeingI
A short time ago Barack Obama held a rally at the very SAME venue: the Excel Center. It was there that he accepted his nomination for President by the Democratic Party. That rally packed the arena and overflowed with 10,000s of supporters outside to watch on TV monitors.

During THAT rally there were only a handful of traffic cops to control pedestrian crossings and the thousands outside the arena were not there to protest like tonight at the RNC, those thousands outside Obama's rally were n support of what was going on inside the Excel Center.

That wasn't St. Paul, it was at the football stadium in Denver. Either you weren't at both to compare them, or you got your cities REALLY confused there.

Originally posted by AllseeingI
All of whom are peace activists. Its people like you who should face a line of rubber bullets and tear gas.

That is a hateful statement and it seems to go against all the ideals you claim to be upholding (regardless of whether he was agreeing with you or not - I know you misread the post)

Originally posted by AllseeingI
I WAS THERE: The protest march on the RNC in Saint Paul 9-2-08: FULL REPORT

OK EVERYONE LISTEN UP I WAS THERE.

I WAS THERE: At the protest march on the RNC in Saint Paul, MN today 9-2-08: FULL REPORT

You were where?

I am going to go out on a limb and say that you using a lot of hyperboles to describe the situation. You are comparing it to a similar event (DNC) which you claim to have attended, even though you can't remember what city it was in... (unless you mean that Obama had a campaign stop in St. Paul when Hilary dropped out, but that still would not be his official acceptance speech).

I don't trust this op-ed piece one bit, but those are just my 2 cents
(although I have a feeling your 2 cents are worth more than mine and I will hear about it - rubber bullet execution for me )

star and slag! very good work man! i was sopposed to go but my ex-wife talked me out of it because she knows how angry i get about this kind of crap, and she thought i would get hurt or killed, but Gonzo journalism goes on...i've got my eyes on a different protest coming up before too long here.i tried to trll a bunch of pepole that something huge was gonna happen with RATM on tuesday, but no one listened.

YES we can watch that same video of ONE protester who broke ONE window on day one of the RNC. This is ONE incident. You cannot lump in the small handful of professional rioters and anarchists who travel the country to every protests to start this trouble with the 99% of the rest of us peaceful but vocal marchers.

And if the police cant tell the difference between the peaceful marchers and the bad ones then they shouldn’t be able to pass the entrance exam to be a law enforcer!

They mace pacifists and flower wielding students.

They tear gas peaceful protesters in retreat as seen in one of the videos posted earlier in this thread by a member other than myself. Thanks btw.

[edit on (9/3/08) by AllSeeingI]

Wow. A lot of hate and irrationalities going on in this thread.

There is nothing wrong with protesting. There is nothing wrong with the Po-po being present at these gatherings for JUST IN CASE things get out of hand. But that is the sad part. It always gets out of hand because someone always lets their anger, frustration, and rage about what is going on, what they are protesting, get the best of them. There is also someone on the other side (whether it be riot police or whatever) who's just ansy waiting for all hell to break loose and I wouldn't doubt that there are some who really hope it does to get some action. It's about both sides. Sadly when it does happen, it's a free for all and every one is caught up in it even the ones who were praying that everything goes smoothly.

Everything seems to be so black and white. Either every single person in government is good or their are all bad. Either every single person in the police force is good or they are bad. No...they are all human and are not robots walking around with some kind of Christ consciousness where they can never do any wrong. But they are also not all out to get you.

It's the bad apples that are the ones that need to be weeded out. They are the ones we should be discussing. We shouldn't be labeling an entire group of people as corrupt or violence driven just because a few bad apples ruin it for the rest of us who really do try to do what is best for the greater good.

Your greater good might not be my greater good but that's why we have a democracy. That's why we have the right to peaceful assembly. To let our voices be heard and state our case as to why we think things need changing. If you don't agree that doesn't make me some crazy person who deserves to be beaten and brutalized by police officers for speaking my mind. Now, if I start destroying property and hurting others it's a different story.

If we all just sat in our homes and just complained at the tv nothing would ever change in this country and the corrupt authorities would have completely gotten their way years ago. But thanks to protesters and people saying they are fed up and demanding accountability we don't have a full blown police state and a dictatorship.

No...Dictatorships start with corrupt governments inside the country. They are allowed to continue because the countrymen have been duped into believing that the dictator only has their best interests at heart. Not their own. They start by barraging citizens with patriotic speeches and a "with us or against us mentality". It starts by convincing the people that there is an outside intruder who wants nothing more than to take over the country from the outside in and that they are the only ones who can protect your way of life by creating new laws that take them away. That's why they start stifling dissenters and quieting protest. It's why they don't allow anti-government (corrupt government) talk for fear that people might listen and rise up and take their country back.

Sound like nazi-germany or Iran/Iraq/(insert evil middle eastern country here)? Think again...

So it really worries me when I see people making comments to throw every protester in jail. Or that we should all just keep our mouths shut and mind our own business. It's talk like this that eventually lead to dictators getting what they want.

You don't have to agree with my opinions about the government, but it is fully within my rights to voice those opinions. You have nothing to worry about if I'm wrong. Because if I am and hardly anybody takes me seriously, nothing will happen. But, you have everything to worry about if I'm right.

reply to post by LoneGunMan

. I am facing foreclosure myself and will soon have nothing. I will also have nothing to lose. Is this the way I am payed back for being a Firefighter...and a person that has always done the right thing? I have never missed a mortgage payment in my life or any other payment.

Funny I didn't realize they could just foreclose on a property where a payment had never been missed and the mortgage was in good standing. Banks REALLY DO love owning property!!

reply to post by nunya13


Well said.

Let me set a few things straight.

I am NOT against the Police being there to protect people and property.
I am against those on both sides who inflame the situation to the detriment of all.
I am against Police using teargas and mace on retreating marchers.
I am against the small handful of so called anarchists who give us a bad name.

But most of us ARE wise enough to realize there are extreme rioters and extreme cops.

The marchers had many organizers I saw who were trying to keep things calm, safe, and peaceful above all. They confronted other protesters when they did anything that would give us a bad image.

As for todays events:
There is a MAJOR rally for RON PAUL (Drontek this is for your demand that we all join Ron Paul) tonight at the Target Center in Minneapolis. This event will host Rage Against the Machine and other bands. The event is sold out! Most anyone who could afford it will be there. Any protest which happen today will be small.

However tomorrow Is the BIGGEST rally! Starting 4pm at the Capital building and marching on the Excel Center.

This will be the largest march yet.

And of course I will be there. This time, hopefully with a video camera. So you can SEE what I see.... with my AllSeeingI

Originally posted by dariousg

Originally posted by sos37
reply to post by AllSeeingI

 

Here's another tip for you, genius, real change is said and done with your votes, not with a mass riot.

Agreed.

And when the 'electronic voting machine' manufacturers come out 8 years after the fact and state that their software is faulty and that votes just happened to be lost during some sort of transfer, what then about your votes? You see, we can't even vote properly anymore without the idea or possibility that rigging is going on. There is zero accountability with these voting machines. It's a joke and it has been funded by, yes, I sadly admit it, the party I have voted for in virtually every election I have been able to. The republicans.

Sorry genius, but you see, when people begin to believe that even their votes aren't being counted then you will see more and more protests like this.

Any links or data to back that up? I didn't see any posted in your response.