New ex-Christian who is lost in his own freedom and uncertainty.

Well guys ..God must not be too bad ...he hasnt blasted you with a lightening bolt while yall sit here and blaspheme him and call him horrible names .....

You know its one thing to not believe ...but your truly stepping over the line name calling and blaspheming his Holy Name ...

Talk about tempting the Lord God ...
I am praying for yall because some of you are truly on the dark side so far that your playing a deadly game and dancing with the devil and that cant be good ..

reply to post by Simplynoone



Wow, you sound just like the church that helped to bring Jesus down. They called him a blasphemer for talking the way he did. He didn`t believe in the status quo either. Who are you to judge any of us? Just as any soul, we are our own judges and juries in life, no one else is. Remember free will?

The only dark side you see, is that which is in your own life, no one elses. Nobody called God names, if so, please quote who said what.





[edit on 8-9-2008 by FiatLux]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
I'm desperately looking for the answer to two questions:

1) Does a God(s) exist? and,
2) Is there an afterlife?

I'll give you a preface:
I am exactly 19 1/2 and I have been an ex-Christian for roughly a month or two.

I had always been a christian and from about age 15 onward I was devout bible-bashing. But I had a mind[love] for science and philosophy which lead me to over think things. In biology I decided that genesis was a creation myth, but that raised a problem. If genesis was non-factual, how much more of the bible was non-factual? I couldn't be sure. I decided that ultimately the bible was unnecessary and that a strong personal relationship with God (not Jesus, I thought he was a significant preacher but not the One who I should pray to) was the important thing as he could teach me directly. I also recognised that, if the bible was infallible then it wasn't divinely inspired as God wouldn't do that and then not care to protect it from distortions and that sort.

Then things got shaky for me when 6 months ago I started hearing a voice in my head (which I later attributed to God) and it taught me many lesions and wonderful messages. Acting upon the voice, I applied the ideas to a troublesome relationship I had. A friend of my friend (lets call him Jason) hated me and let me know it. 2 months after the voice started, Jason respected me, and we became close, he confided in me and trusted me for advice.

The voice brought a lot of life and love to me but it made me critical of my Church because of the overwhelming hipocrisy, double standars, and most of all, apathy. I stopped going and sought to follow what I called "pure christianity" which entailed looking inward to where I could hear God and seeking understanding.

...Then I watched Zeitgiest. At first it was so shocking I was unable to watch it as the ramifications of it being true to to painful to consider. I eventually sat through it and for its' significance, needed to know more.

I was glad to learn that revelation talked in code about Nero and rome. Phew!!

Zeitgeist isn't infallible, as I found out, but the fact alone that there was no evidence supporting the christian messiah ever existing threw me into a hunt to prove/debunk christian theology.

I have found a lot and promptly dropped my religion all together.
My christian friends deal with me with caution after one fundamentalist had a go at me and I rendered him literally speechless.

Im so fresh out of the church and so immature in my belief system that I don't know what's what and frankly I'm scared...

I realise that there is a deep seeded desire for life to have meaning and for there to be an afterlife and for 'God' to love us but it all just appears to be derived from an instinctual fear of death.

Do we believe in God because we need there to be an afterlife?!


The idea that God does not exist and that there is nothing after death terrifies me, as you would expect, and for the first real time in my life I am afraid of death.


To all those atheists, agnostics and ex-christians; how do you reconcile these problems in yourselves?

[edit on 8/31/2008 by Good Wolf]

Good show... you atheists really think Christians buy any of this..? If you "were" actually a Christian, you would never have left, and the voice of "God" would always bring you to His word and His people, not away from them. Nice try though.

QUOTE [Your God once supported terrorist actions. You're pretty much saying that back then, it was ok to act like a terrorist because Jesus had not come yet. If someone does not believe in God, kill them. If someone is gay, kill them. If someone breaks the laws, even though they have no idea of the laws because they are not familiar with the faith, kill them. Oh, and it was ok to sell your daughter as a sex slave. Seriously? I'm sorry, but nothing God could have done after that point could redem him from his own insane laws.]


Fiat ..you dont think calling God a cold blooded killer and insane ...is calling names ?

I will say it again ...it is one thing to just not believe it is another to start name calling him and accusing him of evil doings ..


I just dont understand how yall think you couldnt be wrong about this .
I know you have been wrong before ...why do you not at least leave room that you could be wrong about this too ?
Men dont know it all and they really have nothing figured out yet (NO Dave not even Scientists have the end all answers)

[The only dark side you see, is that which is in your own life, no one elses]

Could be ...but I gotta tell you ..the way some are salivating at the mouth here when they discuss that there may not be a God ..sure tells me alot of how cold people are in their hearts when they do not know God ....
If it turns out that there was no God ..I believe there has been ample proof just in this thread alone to prove to me that there is a devil at least thats for sure ..

Ahhh yes, typical fundamentalist thinking. Because some others do not follow your way of thinking, they are all atheists. Yes, that`s great Christian thinking, isn`t it? Sorry guy, I believe in God, I just don`t feel everyone needs to find God in just the bible as most Christians think they should. Not when God is in all things. I used free will to find God in my own way, not yours. Free will is not limited to just your way of thinking alone.

Originally posted by FiatLux
Ahhh yes, typical fundamentalist thinking. Because some others do not follow your way of thinking, they are all atheists. Yes, that`s great Christian thinking, isn`t it? Sorry guy, I believe in God, I just don`t feel everyone needs to find God in just the bible as most Christians think they should. Not when God is in all things. I used free will to find God in my own way, not yours. Free will is not limited to just your way of thinking alone.

Uhh... last I heard the Christian God is about the Bible and the Bible is about the Christian God. Hmmm....

Besides, I know when an atheist is pulling an "ex christian" story as a fishing trick to catch some weak minded Christians off guard.

reply to post by Fromabove


He`s not an atheist, as you love to call him. He`s on his own search for God. And what happens when he asks questions of those who still believe in the way he use to? He is bombarded with the same old things that drove him away in the beginning, the same old thinking that he must follow the our way, or it`s no way at all. It`s no wonder he may be confused, when he has people harping at him with the same old lines, over and over again. He`s sick of it, and it`s no wonder.

reply to post by Simplynoone




Fiat ..you dont think calling God a cold blooded killer and insane ...is calling names ?

I believe he is talking about the way God is presented to people from the old teachings. Think about it. It was their representation of God, he was calling a cold blooded killer and insane.

[I believe he is talking about the way God is presented to people from the old teachings. Think about it.]

Well I read that old testament book too and I dont see it the same way they are seeing it ..so I guess its all in the way one wants to view it ...

I always try and give everyone the benefit of the doubt though because I dont know the whole story about anything ..especially about God ...so why shouldnt we give God the benefit of the doubt too that maybe we dont know enough about the whole story to make those kinds of accusations against him.
We see through a glass darkly is what the word says ..so we are not even seeing close to the whole picture of how things went down then and why things happened as they did and what were his intentions etc etc ....

Another thing
Wolf is only 19 or 20 ......
I mean really ...he gave the Lord about what 1 year of his time maybe (and didnt even really give him that because if he did for real I believe he would know by now for sure that he is real and his word is good and right ) and because things didnt seem to go the way he thought it should go ..he just dumps it all like a hot potato ...

I have been there and done that at that age too
and I thought I knew it all then too ..
And really I knew nothing at all and things were not as I thought they were .
It took real life and the real world to show me that I really knew nothing at all about anything ...

reply to post by Simplynoone


"So why shouldnt we give God the benefit of the doubt too that maybe we dont know enough about the whole story to make those kinds of accusations against him."

I can`t speak for Wolf Simplynoone, but I have a feeling he is giving God that benefit of a doubt. He is not accusing God, he is accusing those teachers in the way they presented God to the masses. And your right, maybe no one knows the whole story. In the end people will find God in their own way, just have faith in that thought.(smile)

reply to post by Simplynoone


Sometimes it takes people a whole lifetime to find God. So that gives us the right to judge them because it took them that long?

It wasnt just Wolf saying things like that Fiat ..

I am only judging their words ..not them ..
What comes out of their mouth is comeing from their heart isnt it >?

Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Luk 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.



[edit on 8-9-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone



It wasnt just Wolf saying things like that Fiat....


Yes, and? Remember what I said about judging others Simplynoone, it`s not anyones place to judge them, only they can do that themselves. I believe they are only looking for a fresh approach from those that still believe in the teachings, not the old approach to the teachings, but a new approach.

To judge their words, is to judge them, because it is their words that they give.



[edit on 8-9-2008 by FiatLux]

Ok yall look I am sorry ....
I am a mother hen ..
They are not my kids ..but I sure hate for anyone to learn things the hard way ..I wish no one has to learn things the way that I had to learn them..
life was really really tough for me and the only reason why it was is because alot of it I brought on myself ....I could blame lots of people for it all but in the end it was all me ...it was all me ....I could have done things the easy way and learned from others mistakes ..or do it my way ....I chose the latter ..it made life very difficult ...and it didnt have to be that way at all ...
I hope yall will just forgive me for careing so much ...because that is the only reason I am even bothering with this ...

I believe I have had about all of this I can take ...it really is heart wrenching for me to listen to some of this stuff ..because I have a really soft heart and I feel some of yalls pain while reading your posts and the anger that is behind the posts ...... ..I am leaving this thread again .(yeah I know I already said that once) ...


Wolf and Truth ..I wish you both well and may God show you who he really is and how much for you he really does care .... ....

Ok, this thread is moving faster than I have the time to keep up and I'm too worn out to keep taking on two or three people at a time in all these threads as of late. Just a quick response to two quick things:

Originally posted by TruthParadox
[The Bible reaks of 'man-made'

I strongly disagree. No point in explaining why, I suppose. Simply put, a superficial reading of the Bible might not reveal that much except for the Gospel story and a few other interesting deep things of God but when you study it- and I mean truly study it- (and actually open your mind to grasp it), the divine inspiration of the Bible becomes slap-in-your-face apparent. I'm in the process of doing a study on it and all I can say is that it is awe-inspiring.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
I'm sick of people pointing to fulfilled profiecies to claim truth, yet they convientently over look unfulfilled ones.

First of all, talk about totally missing the point. 'Prophecy' wasn't the main issue at hand regarding the New Testament Covenant in relation to the Old Testament laws. Regardless, I am also tired of people repeating the canard of 'unfulfilled prophecy.' Lots of the alleged unfulfilled prophecies were already addressed and refuted in THIS thread. But I know, I know. You will simply accuse it of being 'desperate apologetics.'



Therefore, I will leave you both with this:

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation.

Although the two of you claim to be ex-Christians, due to some of the things mentioned throughout this thread and others, I am left no other choice but to believe the above quote is appropriate. It will be up to both of you to do the investigation when you're ready. Paradox for the unexplainable evidence of divine inspiration and Good Wolf for prophecy.

reply to post by Simplynoone


Ok yall look I am sorry ....
I am a mother hen ..

There is no need to be sorry for loving others as you do Simplynoone, love flows from you, and no one can hold that against you. I sure don`t, because it`s a nice thing to see. When one takes on a large task, and works their way through it, it not only strengthens them on the outside, but for the better part on the inside.



[edit on 8-9-2008 by FiatLux]

Originally posted by Simplynoone

Fiat ..you dont think calling God a cold blooded killer and insane ...is calling names ?

No more than calling an insane cold blooded killer an insane cold blooded killer. We are judged by our actions. You are offended not because of what I said about God, but because I'm judging him by his actions. Also, note that I don't believe in God, so I'm not really insulting anyone. I'm stating what his actions were. His actions are there in black and white for anyone to read.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
I just dont understand how yall think you couldnt be wrong about this .
I know you have been wrong before ...why do you not at least leave room that you could be wrong about this too ?

Do you think you could be wrong about this? I know that I'm not wrong, because there are things that don't make sense. In the extremely small chance that God does exist, he wouldn't torture me for following my logic which he supposedly gave me. Am I evil for seeking the truth? Am I evil for listening to logic?

[edit on 8-9-2008 by TruthParadox]

Originally posted by AshleyD
Therefore, I will leave you both with this:

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation.

I could say the same to you. I've been on both sides. I once fought 10 times harder in favor of Christianity then I am now against it. I always thought, how could people be atheist? Just pray to God and you know he is there. As I got older, and thought about the whole picture, I thought about all the people in Hell. There must have been billions in there by now. Each time I thought about it, I couldn't shake the thought that these people were suffering in real time, some had been there for thousands of years. It was too much to ignore. I started questioning why these people had to spend eternity in there. I'm sure after 100 years in a place like that, someones perspective would change and they would be willing to do anything to get out of such a place. Why all eternity? Why torture? I prayed to God every night while searching for the answers on my own every day. I recieved no answer from God. I looked back on my life, and I had never recieved an answer from God. Only feelings. Feelings of extreme love and warmth. Feelings of a 'knowing' that he is there. I couldn't turn my back on God. I had followed him for 18 years without question. He had to be real. So I kept praying. And praying. And praying. I would say to God "If there is a reason why all these people have to suffer for eternity, then tell me. Give me a sign. Anything. Why not just destroy them so they don't have to suffer? Why not just lock them up without the torture?". No answer. Not even a reassurence. Weeks & months pass by. It was not a rash decision. I started looking into human psychology. I realized that all the feelings I felt could more easily be attributed to psychology. When you make something true in your head, then it feels as though it is. Remember that monster under your bed? I remember praying to God one last time and saying that If I was wrong and didn't know it, then to give me some kind of sign. I told him that if he even cared for me one iota, he would give me some kind of acknowledgment.
He didn't. Once I opened the possiblity of God not existing, then all the questions that I had concerning God but had ignored my whole life began to flood out. I couldn't ignore it. Hell was not the only question I had that could not be answered. Why would God create questions that cannot be answered when he would have to know that he would be damning those like me who use logic as a prime 'motor' for belief?

I don't think many Christians I talk to understand, that if I even thought that there was 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance that God existed, then I would not be arguing against it. If there was even the smallest chance that he existed, then I would not want to damn anyone to Hell. The thought alone is terrible. It was not a rash decision. Believe me when I say that I wish God existed. I wish heaven existed. I wish we had a definable purpose. But the truth is that he doesn't exist.