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Anti Masons please read this!

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posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 09:21 PM
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agree totally apart from the I part .
Someone said this before but I'm sorry it doesn't apply to me , im anti war , anti goverment anti racism anti clasism.
I dont need the goverment to give me an "artificial womb"
Since a very early age I have always realised that the world is not quite right .
911 woke me up and now I know what life is about and why were here .
to be honest all this "you are a reflection of your enemy " " youll be surprised when you realise who your enemy is " - it all sounds like the kind of propaganda the nwo would promote .
yes we are behind everything but we only do it for your benefit or you and the sheep caused this,or you needed and asked for our help .
They want a scenario where we turn on each other where life is so dire that humans become cannibals and depopulate the earth for them .




posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by TheGhostViking
Al Gore really has nohing to do with it. apart from profiting out of a ecodisaster .

Every year, the average temperature of the earth is increasing, and this can be shown to be directly related to pollution.
And who do you think causes the worst pollution ?
you and me?
or multinational cooperations that burn toxic substances ,that pollute water supplies, whose oil spills poison the wildlife ???


Actually, it'd be you and me by virtue of the consumer-driven lifestyle that we've collectively decided we must have. Keeping up with the Joneses carries a far higher long-term cost than we've allowed ourselves to realise. As long as the mantra is newer, faster, better, cheaper NOW, the pressure to find shortcuts will skew the process towards who can get away with the riskiest behaviour for the longest before getting caught out by whatever form of environmental catastrophe.


Originally posted by TheGhostViking
There is nothing negative about you being green but understand this it makes minimal difference a piss in the ocean.


When the steam engine was invented, do you think anyone imagined that London would have killer fogs from all the coal being burned for various reasons? Changing an ingrained habit isn't an instantaneous 180 degree pivot. It didn't happen overnight and the solution won't happen overnight either. It remains to be seen whether we've avoided the precipice or if we're Wile E. Coyote.


Originally posted by TheGhostViking
Nothing will be rectified until the mega rich companies that rape the earth . decide to STOP prioritising PROFIT over the WELFARE OF OUR planet ! ..


As long as they're allowed to pay the piper, they'll call the tune.


Originally posted by TheGhostViking
buy a 10000000 energy efficient lightbulbs, still piss in the wind
for the all the good you try to do, these companies do a million more times damage .
No chance .
oh yeah you realise that when America has fulfilled its carbon emission quota its just waves the magic dollar and they get to s h t all over the earth even more .
CASH RULES NOT MORALS sorry !


Worldwide equality of living standards at the level of the developed world isn't a sustainable model. Now that China and India are pushing to improve the general welfare and living conditions of their populations, the desire to live the 'American Dream' will turn into an unattainable worldwide ecological nightmare. We either as a group reduce our demands and expectations by choice or we'll have to do it to survive.



posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by TheGhostViking
Al Gore really has nohing to do with it. apart from profiting out of a ecodisaster .

Every year, the average temperature of the earth is increasing, and this can be shown to be directly related to pollution.
And who do you think causes the worst pollution ?
you and me?
or multinational cooperations that burn toxic substances ,that pollute water supplies, whose oil spills poison the wildlife ???


Actually, it'd be you and me by virtue of the consumer-driven lifestyle that we've collectively decided we must have. Keeping up with the Joneses carries a far higher long-term cost than we've allowed ourselves to realise. As long as the mantra is newer, faster, better, cheaper NOW, the pressure to find shortcuts will skew the process towards who can get away with the riskiest behaviour for the longest before getting caught out by whatever form of environmental catastrophe.


Originally posted by TheGhostViking
There is nothing negative about you being green but understand this it makes minimal difference a piss in the ocean.


When the steam engine was invented, do you think anyone imagined that London would have killer fogs from all the coal being burned for various reasons? Changing an ingrained habit isn't an instantaneous 180 degree pivot. It didn't happen overnight and the solution won't happen overnight either. It remains to be seen whether we've avoided the precipice or if we're Wile E. Coyote.


Originally posted by TheGhostViking
Nothing will be rectified until the mega rich companies that rape the earth . decide to STOP prioritising PROFIT over the WELFARE OF OUR planet ! ..


As long as they're allowed to pay the piper, they'll call the tune.


Originally posted by TheGhostViking
buy a 10000000 energy efficient lightbulbs, still piss in the wind
for the all the good you try to do, these companies do a million more times damage .
No chance .
oh yeah you realise that when America has fulfilled its carbon emission quota its just waves the magic dollar and they get to s h t all over the earth even more .
CASH RULES NOT MORALS sorry !


Worldwide equality of living standards at the level of the developed world isn't a sustainable model. Now that China and India are pushing to improve the general welfare and living conditions of their populations, the desire to live the 'American Dream' will turn into an unattainable worldwide ecological nightmare. We either as a group reduce our demands and expectations by choice or we'll have to do it to survive.



posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
We either as a group reduce our demands and expectations by choice or we'll have to do it to survive.



True indeed.


reply to post by TheGhostViking
 


What is written by Samael Aun Weor in the link quoted in my last post, is not meant by him that we should let people walk all over us. Nor does it necessarily mean that we should not take action and speak out against the greedy corporations and whatnot.

What he is saying, is that the negative elements (egos or "I's")–that cause corrupt clergymen, politicians, cops, CEO's, etc., to do what they do–more or less exist within our own subconsciousness. Meaning that if we remove those elements (egos or "I's") from our own subconsciousness, then we are no longer effected by them internally or externally (yes, it is taught that we can actually physically remove ourselves from pollution, war, etc. if we wish, by eliminating our egos).

And removing our egos is not meant as some sort of vague idea. What is meant, is an actual process of moment to moment self-observation, sexual-transmutation, and rigorous scientific meditation, in order to literally remove our egos, so that we can see all of the dimensions of nature which are beyond the physical. We are (supposed to be) Divine Beings. If we are not capable of knowing (for example) how many atoms are in one of our hairs without using physical technology, then we obviously do not know ourselves, because our consciousness is trapped in our egos.

The exoteric religions try to make us believe that we have to wait until we physically die in order to know what is beyond the grave. The esoteric religions, Gnosis, teaches us that we can lucidly experience what is beyond the physical, here and now, with complete clarity. If we don't even know ourselves, then we are not part of the solution, we are part of the problem.



edit on 28-1-2011 by Tamahu because: edited text



posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by TheGhostViking
Nothing will be rectified until the mega rich companies that rape the earth . decide to STOP prioritising PROFIT over the WELFARE OF OUR planet ! ..
buy a 10000000 energy efficient lightbulbs, still piss in the wind
for the all the good you try to do, these companies do a million more times damage .
No chance .


Which goes back to what I said about capitalism.



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 06:24 AM
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Hi guys thanks to all 3 of you for responding !

Id like to say you have opened my eyes .
I didnt believe it were possible that we could share similar opinions .
Ithink most of ATS want whats best for this planet .

Guys what is your opinion of these 3 things ?
Alll seeing eye and pyramid on the dollar bill ?
What do you think of the worlds resources and wealth laying in the hands of a small few ?
Whats your take on the Bohemian Grove ?
THNX IN ADVANCE _



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 07:29 AM
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NOTE: I'm not trying to sound hostile

reply to post by TheGhostViking
 

All Masonic buildings are purchased and maintained by the Masons - usually in the form of a Board of Directors. Usually multiple Lodges and appendant bodies join together for the funds. The bottom floor of my Masonic Temple is rented out and that money is used to maintain the building.

If your church needs a new roof, why are you not helping fund raise? Put down they keyboard and pick up the nail and hammer.

People of standing? I'm a Sergeant in the Army National Guard (I don't make that much for what I do) and often live paycheck to paycheck. I'm not a prominent figure in my local or State government. Freemasonry accepts men from all walks of life and are kept on the rolls as long as they can pay their annual dues. Quite often my Lodge gives people a one or two year pass, and often the Past Masters come together if we know a Brother needs financial help paying his dues.

Another requirement is that the man have a belief in a higher power. We don't define what faith you should follow, but just that you do have a belief. You must a good, moral man - Freemasonry doesn't make bad men good.

Didn't your teacher tell you not to name call?

Last time I checked I was free to go to any website I chose.

Manly P. Hall was a Mason, but not when he wrote his books. He wrote his books decades before ever joining.

Freemasonry is not a hindrance at all. Our only enemies are ignorance, fanaticism, and tyranny.

Freemasonry also charges that we are good citizens and not break the law.

reply to post by TheGhostViking
 

1) I'm here to debunk the lies and spread as much truth as I can about the Freemasons.
2) No I'm here as a Mason
3) I'm well aware that there will be those who are suspicious of us.

reply to post by CholmondleyWarner
 

What supposed Masonic group paid for the airport? What part of those murals depicts anything Masonic?
edit on 29-1-2011 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 08:34 AM
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Didn't your teacher tell you not to name call?
NO My teacher told me to be aware and not take EVERTHING at face value to QUESTION people .

I dont think you should be surprised to see that I question the masons . If you choose to hide your work behind closed doors for hundreds of years then maybe people will worry about your intentions no ?

If your church needs a new roof, why are you not helping fund raise? Put down they keyboard and pick up the nail and hammer.
Because I dont need a religion to tell me im a good person i dont put my faith in a god that noone can prove exsists . seems a tad pathetic really .
I merely used it as an example .
ps the post you reply to has already been replied to numerous times AND i have apologised for my tone , so can we move foward and not rehash old posts ?



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 08:41 AM
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Alll seeing eye and pyramid on the dollar bill ?

It's a very old symbol, and not a Masonic one It was adopted by the United States as the seal in 1782.
By that time the Eye of Providence was regarded as the eye of God, the Christian one.
Following it's adoption by the State government, Freemasonry followed by adopting it in 1797.
Of the final committee that worked on, none that I know of were Masons.
The initial committee did have Masons in it, including Benjamin Franklin. Their initial motto was "Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God."


What do you think of the worlds resources and wealth laying in the hands of a small few ?

It's always been the way, probably always will be going forward as well. No matter what culture you look at, the primary wealth holders are a minority of the people.


Whats your take on the Bohemian Grove ?


A secret club for famous people, that's apparently about as hard to sneak into as it is to just walk in the front door, as was proved by a investigative reporter by the name of Jon Ronson, he has a article about it called "The Clearing In The Forest."
Can't find it online, but he put the entire thing up on another forum.



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by TheGhostViking
Hi guys thanks to all 3 of you for responding !

Id like to say you have opened my eyes .
I didnt believe it were possible that we could share similar opinions .
Ithink most of ATS want whats best for this planet .


Freemasonry ≠ The Borg. Like any other group of disparate individuals, there are many differing opinions. Witness the opinions vis a vis global warming. I patiently allow the Masons who don't agree with my opinion to be wrong.



Originally posted by TheGhostViking
Guys what is your opinion of these 3 things ?
Alll seeing eye and pyramid on the dollar bill ?
What do you think of the worlds resources and wealth laying in the hands of a small few ?
Whats your take on the Bohemian Grove ?
THNX IN ADVANCE _


1. That's been discussed to death here and others have offered up much more lucid explanations than I can proffer. However as an icon in reference to the Almighty, the all-seeing eye was a fairly common in the 18th century and its use on the U.S. dollar bill isn't especially surprising. A bit hubristic at the time but the rest of the world has become used to U.S. hubris.


2. It sucks. I think the general public in North America and Britain have fully embraced the Thatcher/Reagan anti-union rhetoric without considering the inevitable direction and outcome of policies directed by that blighted mindset. Walmart as an example is not the answer to stagnant/reduced wages; it's a big and growing part of the problem. On principle, I won't shop there because they're the epitome of 'death by a thousand cuts'. Off-shoring production jobs to low-wage countries is not a sustainable business model.

There has to be some semblance of balance between those who have lots and those who don't. However unless the collective will exists to relatively peaceably redress that imbalance emerges soon, I fully expect tensions to continue to rise precipitously in the coming decades in a manner similar to the late 19th/early 20th century.

3. BFD. At worst, it's ostentatiousness is in poor taste. I certainly don't see it through the Alex Jones conspirafilter.



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by TheGhostViking
If you choose to hide your work behind closed doors for hundreds of years then maybe people will worry about your intentions no ?


But the work hasn't been hidden for anyone with a few pence since about (IIRC) 1727 when the first book was printed that had Masonic ritual spelled out. The Internet has only further facilitated the dissemination.

Anti-Masonic thinking has been an exercise in self-blindness for pushing three centuries.


edit on 29-1-2011 by Fitzgibbon because: Fixing a formatting issue. It just didn't look purdy!




posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 09:12 AM
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Runespider thnx for the reply .
i know of Joe Ronson , The British reporter , il look for the documentary you mentioned .
Glad we agree about the distribution of wealth .
Goin back to the dollar bill , I see the seal as a proof that TPTB are ruling us . They put it on the money and are saying that they want a New World Order .
What gets me angry about Bohemian Grove is the fact that Rich and powerful men go there to worship a freakin OWL and they burn mock effigies . This is not imo the sign of sane people ! !! Thoughts ?
What about the callboy scandal that ripped through the whitehouse ? Again imo , it shows that these politicians are lying to the public , I mean some of these guys were in straight marriages .

The war on drugs is a sham how can it not be when the us government has a history of smuggling drugs into the USA ? They lock up weed smokers for a plant that has NEVER killed anyone yet alcohol and cigarettes are legal?
Dont even get me started on the big pharmaceutical scam either , they want us to be zombies ,on medication whose side effects are so horrific that they out do any benefits .



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Sir, I know of some masons, my 3 cousins were involved in the masons. My oldest cousin his younger brother of 2 years, and then our other cousin from our uncle joined who is 2 years younger then the second cousin. My oldest cousin was 28, his brother was 26 and the other cousin was 24 at the time they joined. The oldest cousin joined first, and after 6 months recruited his brother, 6 months later they recruited our uncle's son as well. At family parties they would huddled up by themselves and talk about "private" things, whenever one of us would approach them, they would just say, "Were discussing lodge things" but they would NEVER say what they did there... The older cousin would go to "Bible Study" 3 sometimes 4 times a week for 2 hours at a time. But when he had his 1st born son at 30 he quickly dropped from them, and when we asked why because he seemed so intrested in it, he said "I just didnt agree with what they were trying to teach/preach to me, I just didnt agree with what they were trying to tell me so I left." My mother, their aunt, told all three of them, if this group is SOOOOO Secreative you cant even tell your family what they are teaching or telling you, you cant discuss who is a mason or who isnt, if you cant tell your family what you do in your rituals, no good can come from them. and that makes sense my friend, any secret group cant be a good group?! Right?Not saying that they are rapist, thieves or liars, just saying that anything that is secret is secret usually for the wrong reasons, or why hide? You know?My second cousin did say that it was against the rules for someone to wear the mason jewlery if they were not truely a mason?? Cuz its false representation?? I dont know, I dont like it for how it made my cousins act around our family they completely changed. So why did you join OP?? What are you learning? Or can you not discuss it either?



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by TheGhostViking
Goin back to the dollar bill , I see the seal as a proof that TPTB are ruling us . They put it on the money and are saying that they want a New World Order .
No, they're saying that the creation of America already IS a new world order. It was a democracy when prior to that those men had been ruled by kings. The eye is the eye of God, overseeing our work; the 1776 is the year of our nation's independence from England; the 13 steps are the 13 colonies that the nation was founded upon.

And there's absolutely no evidence the Bavarian Illuminati ever used an eye in an unfinished pyramid as a symbol. That's a myth perpetrated by William Guy Carr in his 1956 book "Pawns in the Game". There's no historical evidence that backs up his claim, but thousands of conspiracy theorists since then have unquestioningly taken it as gospel that what he wrote was true.



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
Manly P. Hall was a Mason, but not when he wrote his books. He wrote his books decades before ever joining.



Just to point out..., Manly P. Hall wrote quite a few books after joining a physical Masonic Lodge.

You can find almost all of them here:



Philosophical Research Society: Title List



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by TheGhostViking
The war on drugs is a sham how can it not be when the us government has a history of smuggling drugs into the USA ? They lock up weed smokers for a plant that has NEVER killed anyone yet alcohol and cigarettes are legal?


Can't say I particularly disagree with you there. T'would seem to me that the States is dooming itself to repeat history by virtue of aping Prohibition. The myopia is nothing less than astonishing.


Originally posted by TheGhostViking
Dont even get me started on the big pharmaceutical scam either , they want us to be zombies ,on medication whose side effects are so horrific that they out do any benefits .


Therein you have unfettered capitalism at its finest; create your own problem to fit the 'solution' you have. If you have the population at large whipped into a frenzy of fear, you can get them collectively to do whatever you want and buy whatever it is that you're selling.

Of course if you step back and analyse what it is they're selling and whether it's actually a problem, I would suggest that nine times out of ten, they're peddling solutions for non-problems or at least marginal problems. But until society (and in particular it would seem U.S. society) grows up and recognises big pharma as the carpetbaggers and snake oil salesmen they are, you're doomed to be blighted with 60-second television commercial spots where 40 seconds is required to outline all the reasons you shouldn't take a particular new drug.

That should tell you something right there



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by TheGhostViking
 




What gets me angry about Bohemian Grove is the fact that Rich and powerful men go there to worship a freakin OWL and they burn mock effigies . This is not imo the sign of sane people ! !!


Well, s'why I asked that you read the article.
They don't worship the owl, the effigy is meant to represent the cares they have in the world, so that while they are in the grove they are not burdened by the cares of the world.
You can look at it conspiratorially, or you can look at it as these are powerful men who (are at least supposed to) carry heavy burdens, and the grove is a place to relax.

Honestly, we had a few weird ceremonies in Boy Scouts that taken without the meaning behind them, would seem bizarre.
For example, when we got to Eagle scouts, they burned a a massive bonfire on the opposite side of the lake in the shape of... well, honestly that was several years ago, I think it was an arrow.

We recited the Scout's Creed, and then we all received the badge.


EDIT:
I got permission from Jon Ronson to paste the text here, he posted the entirety on the forum here. It's fairly long though, and I know the mods frown on it.

edit on 29-1-2011 by RuneSpider because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 10:52 AM
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nine times out of ten, they're peddling solutions for non-problems or at least marginal problems.
HA ha yes !!! Totally agree .

My parents got divorced when I was 7 . My mother took me to Spain and I Ilived with her til I was a teenager . All this time I saw my father very irregularly as he was in England and it broke my heart . From 13 years onwards I Ilived with my Father and again saw my mother very maybe once in 5 years ?
When i was about 15 I did something stupid at school and was suspended for 2 days I believe .
My father was furious and soon after took me to a child physchologist as he thought I needed some kind of help .
I spoke to the physchologist for about 20 minutes . This was the FIRST time I had spoken to an adult about how unhappy I had been since the divorce , I broke down and cried but I felt good was coming out of talking . Almost immediately the physchologist stopped the conversation and said she was going to refer me to someone else . The guy she reffered me to did NOT once try to talk to ME !! He only addressed my stepmother and wanted to know the details of my bad behaviour , thats ALL he spoke of .!!! It concluded with the guy prescribing me ritalin !!

I took the ritalin for a while but to be honest I felt no benefit at all , 1 day i fainted in class and from that day on I without the knowledge of my guardians stopped taking ritalin . As I have stated I felt no benefit and any positive change in me was due to ME maturing to Me learning from my mistakes . !!!!

In summary I am furious with my father and stepmother and the health care system for imo failing me .
It seems like they dont seem to care about the real problems or factors behind a childs behaviour and are all to quick to want to SHUT THEM UP AND GET THEM DRUGGED UP. !!!!
ps forgive my anger but I have not told my account to many people .



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 10:52 AM
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posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by StarrGazer25
reply to post by network dude
 


At family parties they would huddled up by themselves and talk about "private" things, whenever one of us would approach them, they would just say, "Were discussing lodge things" but they would NEVER say what they did there...


The 'huddling up' at family functions was just plain old fashioned ignorance on their part. As for not discussing lodge, all I can say is that was a lack of experience as there's precious little that goes on in lodge that can't be discussed with non-Masons.


Originally posted by StarrGazer25
The older cousin would go to "Bible Study" 3 sometimes 4 times a week for 2 hours at a time.


"Bible Study" doesn't have anything to do with Masonry which is a non-secular moral fraternity. I could speculate on what "Bible Study" was but it'd be just that; mere speculation. I've heard of going out with the boys to have a few barley pops referred to as "choir practise".


Originally posted by StarrGazer25
But when he had his 1st born son at 30 he quickly dropped from them, and when we asked why because he seemed so intrested in it, he said "I just didnt agree with what they were trying to teach/preach to me, I just didnt agree with what they were trying to tell me so I left."


I think he was being told to man-up and didn't like being told. Hence his departure. Just my read on things though. Anybody who's out 3 or 4 times a week for two hours at a go at his age definitely has something out of whack in his priority tree.


Originally posted by StarrGazer25
My mother, their aunt, told all three of them, if this group is SOOOOO Secreative you cant even tell your family what they are teaching or telling you, you cant discuss who is a mason or who isnt, if you cant tell your family what you do in your rituals, no good can come from them. and that makes sense my friend,


Your cousins could have told her the essence of what goes on in Lodge if not the specifics and not have been compromising their obligations. Your mother could also have done some research herself although given your description of things, I suspect she would've been more inclined to believe the tripe one finds on Freemasonrywatch than actual fact.


Originally posted by StarrGazer25
any secret group cant be a good group?! Right?


Bit of an all-encompassing statement, wouldn't you say? Kind of like saying 'anything I don't know everything about the inner workings of is by my definition bad'. A non-starter limiting mindset IMHO. As a Mason, I don't know the inner workings of the Knights of Columbus. So should I immediately assume treason, treachery and whatever other wild and wonderful nastiness I can dream up? Heaven knows, enough people in the world follow that approach. Or should I draw on what I surmise based on my own experience and my underlying belief in the essential potential goodness of man?

God knows, it's ever so easy to hate. Childishly easy in fact. It would restore my faith in mankind if more people would come to conclusions based on rational thoughts rather than unfounded visceral emotion.


Originally posted by StarrGazer25
Not saying that they are rapist, thieves or liars, just saying that anything that is secret is secret usually for the wrong reasons, or why hide? You know?


And you've come to this worldview exactly how?


Originally posted by StarrGazer25
My second cousin did say that it was against the rules for someone to wear the mason jewlery if they were not truely a mason?? Cuz its false representation??


If I'm not a Mason, why on Earth should I give a flying fig about a Masonic rule? The only person who might be fooled by a non-Mason wearing Masonic jewellery is another non-Mason.


Originally posted by StarrGazer25
I dont know, I dont like it for how it made my cousins act around our family they completely changed. So why did you join OP?? What are you learning? Or can you not discuss it either?


I'm sorry your cousins turned selfish (from the sound of your description). Certainly it isn't Masonic teaching that caused that but more likely a misunderstanding on their part. Is it also possible that there was something underlying in their personalities that you weren't aware of and that came to the fore because of them joining Masonry?

In my case, I joined Masonry as a way to improve myself as a man and to direct efforts to give back to society in general. Membership in the fraternity had skipped a generation in my family and I was going through old family photographs when I came across one from my grandfather's funeral (happened well before I was born). My Dad, his sister and his mother were out of the country when my grandfather died from influenza and his Lodge took care of all the necessary arrangements for his funeral. That spoke volumes to me of the sort of integrity that I cared to be part of and I joined. Nothing in my 10 years as a Mason has given me even a moment's pause to reconsider my initial decision.

As for what I'm learning, quite simply it is how to be a better man of more utility to myself, my family and society in general. Nothing unique nor exclusive to Masonry in this; just the path to accomplishment I choose take.

HTH
Fitz



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