Two teenage boys hanged in Iran , page 3

I don't agree with the death penalty, no matter who is doing it but let's look at some American facts here.

Here's an article that was written in 1998 in regards to America's court system. Have fun.

In the last twenty years, more than 150 children have been sentenced to death in the United States.

Out of the few countries whose laws provide for execution for crimes that people commit as children, the United States has carried out more of these executions than any of the others.

All states have provisions for prosecuting children as young as 14 in courts of law as adults. Many states are steadily lowering the age that children can be tried as adults. In some states this could be the case for children as young as 10 years old.

mmmhmmm, and who believes that a ten year old should be tried as an adult? Oh yeah, OBVIOUSLY Americans used to.

In 2005, the Supreme Court in Roper v. Simmons struck down the death penalty for juveniles. 22 defendants had been executed for crimes committed as juveniles since 1976.

According to a survey of the former and present presidents of the country's top academic criminological societies, 84% of these experts rejected the notion that the death penalty acts as a deterrent to murder.

The 2006 FBI Uniform Crime Report showed that the South had the highest murder rate. The South accounts for over 80% of executions. The Northeast, which has less than 1% of all executions, again had the lowest murder rate.

The United States also has a history of using the death penalty even when the person is "mentally disabled" (retardation).

Finally Supreme Court issued a landmark ruling ending the execution of those with mental retardation. In Atkins v. Virginia, the Court held that it is a violation of the Eighth Amendment ban on cruel unusual punishment to execute death row inmates with mental retardation. The decision reflects the national consensus which has formed on this issue.

"outside source for info" www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...

reply to post by stumason

---

Let me point out my meaning, just for the sake of clarity, since you seem to have a problem comprehending what i said and choose rather to believe what you think i said.

I did not describe any country, nor did i comment on Iran's treatment of women.

What i said was i can't get upset about the execution of two boys that commited murder in a country that condones honor killings. IMO if a country allows honor killings to continue and go unpunished then that country condones them. That is the extent of what i said about that country, there was no description of Iran in my post at all.

I don't understand why you qouted something i said and then went on to comment about something you perceived me to have said, yet made no reply to what you quoted.

As far as what you quoted me saying about international law, i stand behind what i said. I have no respect for an international law that makes it illegal to give the death penalty to minors that are guilty of murder while countless innocent minors are murdered by their own family members for something so simple as the way they choose to dress, etc.

reply to post by stumason

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Edited to delete double post.

[edit on 29/8/08 by chise61]

I'm sorry, I just have to repost this part, as an American it makes me sick.

Out of the few countries whose laws provide for execution for crimes that people commit as children, the United States has carried out more of these executions than any of the others.

I am only thankful that this has finally been changed and that children can no longer be sentenced to death. Though sadly they can still be tried as adults and sentenced to an adult prison.

a 2007 report www.eji.org...

In the United States, dozens of 13- and 14-year-old children have been sentenced to life imprisonment with no possibility of parole after being prosecuted as adults. While the United States Supreme Court recently declared in Roper v. Simmons that death by execution is unconstitutional for juveniles, young children continue to be sentenced to imprisonment until death with very little scrutiny or review.

You think these children are going to be able to protect themselves in an adult prison? Just remember though, NO ALCOHOL until you are 21, no smoking until you are 17/18 depending on the state.

[edit on 29-8-2008 by amazed]

reply to post by amazed

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Can you please tell me what your posts have to do with this thread ?

The thread is about Two teenage boys that were hung in Iran, how Iran violated international, as well as their own law. The thread has nothing to do with america's (or any other country's for that matter) history of executing minors.

Please stop trying to derail this thread.

[edit on 29/8/08 by chise61]

Originally posted by chise61
reply to post by amazed

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Can you please tell me what your posts have to do with this thread ?

The thread is about Two teenage boys that were hung in Iran, how Iran violated international, as well as their own law. The thread has nothing to do with america's (or any other country's for that matter) history of executing minors.

Please stop trying to derail this thread.

[edit on 29/8/08 by chise61]

What it has to do with this thread is the death penalty and this involving children. Not trying to derail this thread, just adding some information. We can scream and hollar about other countries who have the death penalty, but we also need to stop and look at our own issues with the death penalty before we start pointing the finger. Yes, I know not everyone here is American.

My point was we seem to scream and hollar at other countries but sometimes we need to stop and look at what is going on in our own backyard as well.

reply to post by amazed

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Understandable, however the OP is talking about the illegality of the execution by international laws and the fact that Iran even went against their own laws, it isn't really about debating the death penalty. There are no Americans posting as of yet screaming about what Iran did. I'm merely trying to point out that it doesn't take much lately to turn a thread into an American bashing thread so can we please try to avoid that in this thread?

Originally posted by chise61
reply to post by amazed

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Understandable, however the OP is talking about the illegality of the execution by international laws and the fact that Iran even went against their own laws, it isn't really about debating the death penalty. There are no Americans posting as of yet screaming about what Iran did. I'm merely trying to point out that it doesn't take much lately to turn a thread into an American bashing thread so can we please try to avoid that in this thread?

Personally in no way can I think about/discuss/judge another countries issues without the experience I have in my own country/life.

I feel that I would be hypocritical to point out another countries faults while completely ignoring the fact that my own country happens to be dealing with the same issues. IE: breaking international laws and our own laws right here in the country that I live in, America.

I kinda feel like that would be similar to me kicking my dog while saying to my neighbor "hay why are you kicking your dog you bad bad person you". IE: Complaining about Iran breaking International Laws and their own Laws while we are doing the exact same thing.

AND I believe I was nowhere near the first person to bring America and our own system into this conversation. I just added a bit more "meat" to it.

reply to post by VIKINGANT

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This is not about the age of those boys, it is about timing. Get ready for more outrageous news about Iran in the weeks leading up to the first US airstrike sometime before the year is over.

Outrageous crap like that is happening in every country every week all over the world. Mother puts baby in microwave, people dying in darfur, you take your pick.

I am sure that a fireman saved a cat from a tree sometime this month in Iran and we will never hear about it in the "offbeat" news section.

The timing of the news is meant to stimulate hate towards Iran (deserved or not) because an attack is imminent.

-rrr

Originally posted by rickyrrr
reply to post by VIKINGANT

---

This is not about the age of those boys, it is about timing. Get ready for more outrageous news about Iran in the weeks leading up to the first US airstrike sometime before the year is over.

Outrageous crap like that is happening in every country every week all over the world. Mother puts baby in microwave, people dying in darfur, you take your pick.

I am sure that a fireman saved a cat from a tree sometime this month in Iran and we will never hear about it in the "offbeat" news section.

The timing of the news is meant to stimulate hate towards Iran (deserved or not) because an attack is imminent.

-rrr

quoted for truth friend.
starred

Originally posted by rickyrrr
reply to post by VIKINGANT

---

This is not about the age of those boys, it is about timing. Get ready for more outrageous news about Iran in the weeks leading up to the first US airstrike sometime before the year is over.

Outrageous crap like that is happening in every country every week all over the world. Mother puts baby in microwave, people dying in darfur, you take your pick.

I am sure that a fireman saved a cat from a tree sometime this month in Iran and we will never hear about it in the "offbeat" news section.

The timing of the news is meant to stimulate hate towards Iran (deserved or not) because an attack is imminent.

-rrr

You know something. I would have posted this no matter where in the world it happened because what happened and how it happened is just wrong, but you might be on to something. This kind of thing does go on everywhere, but this just happened to have been reported out of Iran, and now of all times....Certainly something to ponder.

reply to post by amazed

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That might ring true if you had discussed anything about another country's wrong doings, or more specifically the op, however all you discussed in your posts was America's wrong doings. Again the thread is about something that happened in Iran, not America.

I know you were not the first to bring up America, i saw the bait, i was asking you not to add more meat. You know please don't feed the trolls.

reply to post by chise61

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Relax. They are putting perspective on the situation.

The intent wasn't to attack America, if it looks like that, then the American legal system kind of set themselves up for it.

It's perspective. Nothing more.

And the reason they chose America as an example, is because the US is the self declared world police, they are supposed to set an example.

Plus... there aren't an abundance of other nations out there to use as an example of executing children.

Originally posted by VIKINGANT


I am not taking a pro or anti Iran stance on this story but the fact that these two boys were hanged for a crime committed when they were 15.
Not only was it an illegal hanging

The execution of juvenile offenders is prohibited under international law, as stated in Article 6 (5) of the ICCPR and the Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC), of which Iran is a state party to and so has undertaken not to execute anyone for crimes committed when they were under 18.

But they way they went about it was all wrong as well.

His lawyer was not informed that his execution was to be carried out, though under Iranian law a 48 hour notification period is required.

Reza Hejazi's family were notified that he had been transferred to a cell for those to be executed within 24 hours, and they informed his lawyer, Mohammad Mostafaei. The lawyer reached Esfahan prison at 4.30am, and attempted to find out when the execution was to be carried out. Prison guards informed him that executions normally took place between 7 and 8am. After attempting for several hours to secure a stay of execution, at around 10am Mohammad Mostafaei was told by the officer supervising executions that Reza Hejazi’s execution had been halted. He set off back to his office in the capital, Tehran, a five-hour journey away. While he was travelling, he was informed that Reza Hejazi was hanged at 11am.

And what did the Iranian Government have to say about it?

Within hours of the execution, members of Iran's parliament expressed outrage, not for the deaths of the two teenagers, but at journalists who reported the ages of those who were put to death.

According to Iran Focus News, one member of parliament was dismayed that the focus was on the age of the boys. "Instead of paying tribute to the action of the judiciary, the media are mentioning the age of the hanged criminals and creating a commotion that harms the interests of the state," he said.

I think thier age should be the focus in this case.
OK. The boys were now 18 but the crimes were committed before they were 18 so should not have been executed.
I repeat....

The execution of juvenile offenders is prohibited under international law..../...not to execute anyone for crimes committed when they were under 18

story.birminghamstar.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

It figures that you bleeding heart liberals would see this as "wrong"!

The fact of the matter is that we have 15 yr olds in America killing people and nothing gets done about them. I call them "Terrorists". They are called "Gang Bangers". Frankly, if we started treating them like the "Terrorists" that they truly are, and gave them the appropriate treatment like these 2 15 yr olds in Iran, we would not have so many crimes committed in America these days. However, you bleeding heart liberals would always try to be stepping in to stop it.

We "DO NOT" have the right to tell Iran or China or anyone else how to punish their criminals.

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