Two teenage boys hanged in Iran , page 1

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Topic started on 28-8-2008 @ 09:30 PM by VIKINGANT

Two teenage boys hanged in Iran

story.birminghamstar.com

Iran has executed two youths who were convicted of murder when they were fifteen years of age.

Both have been hanged in the past week.

Behnam Zaree, who turned 18 this year, was convicted after the death of another teenager in a street fight 3 years ago.

(visit the link for the full news article)

reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 09:31 PM by VIKINGANT

I am not taking a pro or anti Iran stance on this story but the fact that these two boys were hanged for a crime committed when they were 15.
Not only was it an illegal hanging

The execution of juvenile offenders is prohibited under international law, as stated in Article 6 (5) of the ICCPR and the Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC), of which Iran is a state party to and so has undertaken not to execute anyone for crimes committed when they were under 18.

But they way they went about it was all wrong as well.

His lawyer was not informed that his execution was to be carried out, though under Iranian law a 48 hour notification period is required.

Reza Hejazi's family were notified that he had been transferred to a cell for those to be executed within 24 hours, and they informed his lawyer, Mohammad Mostafaei. The lawyer reached Esfahan prison at 4.30am, and attempted to find out when the execution was to be carried out. Prison guards informed him that executions normally took place between 7 and 8am. After attempting for several hours to secure a stay of execution, at around 10am Mohammad Mostafaei was told by the officer supervising executions that Reza Hejazi’s execution had been halted. He set off back to his office in the capital, Tehran, a five-hour journey away. While he was travelling, he was informed that Reza Hejazi was hanged at 11am.

And what did the Iranian Government have to say about it?

Within hours of the execution, members of Iran's parliament expressed outrage, not for the deaths of the two teenagers, but at journalists who reported the ages of those who were put to death.

According to Iran Focus News, one member of parliament was dismayed that the focus was on the age of the boys. "Instead of paying tribute to the action of the judiciary, the media are mentioning the age of the hanged criminals and creating a commotion that harms the interests of the state," he said.

I think thier age should be the focus in this case.
OK. The boys were now 18 but the crimes were committed before they were 18 so should not have been executed.
I repeat....

The execution of juvenile offenders is prohibited under international law..../...not to execute anyone for crimes committed when they were under 18

story.birminghamstar.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 10:09 PM by Bringer

Buncha B.S. They know right from wrong. what about the father and mother brother and sisters of the person killed. Noone cares for them, no they want the killers to go free slap em on the wrist F that.

reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 11:00 PM by fox_3000au

I believe that when there is undeniable proof that the convicted has commited the offence of murder, they should be executed. Regardless of age (commence flamming...now.) Though this is my point of view only.

What I am about too say has nothing too do with age, but it is an example none the less of what I am trying too say.

When Martin Bryant slaughted those people in the Port Arthur massacre and he was caught on camera, roaming the grounds hunting for targets and with the amount of witnesses to testify that he had commited the murders and didn't Bryant himself admit too the murders also (?) shouldn't he have received the death penalty? Though we don't have the death penalty here in Australia, we really should. Now that is a case in which there is no speculation or false truths as to whether he commited the crimes and he should be dead like all his victims, not locked up in jail. (come too think of it he would be having his tax payer funded lunch as I'm posting this now) even if Martin was a fifteen year old boy, my opinion still stands.

Now... back on topic.... I am aware that what has happened over in Iran is against international law and yes, the law is the law. It will be interesting too see how the rest of the world responds too this, though I'm fairly certain that none of them will care, I would never scream outrage as too what has happened too them... good ridence

Now before all of you that is against the death penalty jump on my back, and start too tell me about how many innocents were executed because the legal system failed, I said UNDENIABLE PROOF.

Cheers, Fox.

reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 11:03 PM by princeofpeace

This is nothing new. Iran does this type of stuff all the time to their citizens.

reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 11:04 PM by stumason

reply to post by fox_3000au

I agree with you 100%.

As for "breaking international law", well us in the West can hardly be innocent of that charge either, really.

Having said that, I would have thought these chaps could have got off with a manslaughter charge, seeing as the death occured as the result of a street fight and wasn't pre-meditated, but each country has it's own laws regarding that so who am I to judge?

reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 11:12 PM by dave420

reply to post by fox_3000au

It's very difficult to launch an appeal with the death penalty. Also, legal systems in the western world (especially ones derrived from the British system) never assume to be 100% correct. That is why they err on the side of caution. Taking a life is not something that can be undone, either through incorrect verdicts of guilty, or through mis-trials.

And, come to think of it, if it's so abhorent for one person to take another's life, why is it OK for the state to do it? Do two wrongs make a right? Is prison about vengeance, or rehabilitation? Wouldn't it be better to turn the murderers into productive members of society, able to repay their debt? Or are we back in medieval days where heads are put on spikes to be a warning to others? And if the death penalty is a deterrent, why are murders still committed in countries that have it? Surely if it's a deterrent, it's only used once, and never again?

Or is this the bible?

reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 11:16 PM by stumason

I might add here, before the typical anti-Iran US crowd jump all over this, that the USA only banned juvenile executions in 2005. prior to that, there were literally dozens of 16 and 17 year olds on death row awaiting execution.

Since 1976, the USA executed 22 juveniles.

reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 11:18 PM by justamomma

OP, are you wanting us to care? This is their country, their teens, and their problem!

If they murdered, then their arses deserved to be hanged. If this were America, I'd say the same thing unless it was done out of self defense.

Since it is NOT our country, I don't see why we should be concerned. I know, I know... they were humans. But they are humans who ARE under different laws. Why do we, in America, feel that we should make every other country conform to our humanistic ideals? BLEH!

reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 11:30 PM by VIKINGANT

Originally posted by justamomma
But they are humans who ARE under different laws. Why do we, in America, feel that we should make every other country conform to our humanistic ideals? BLEH!

They do have thier laws that are different to ours, but the authorities still BROKE the law.
Just because a country has its own set of rules, International laws still apply.
I remind you...

The execution of juvenile offenders is prohibited under international law, as stated in Article 6 (5) of the ICCPR and the Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC), of which Iran is a state party to and so has undertaken not to execute anyone for crimes committed when they were under 18.

Not only that, but also as previously stated, they broke thier own countries laws....

His lawyer was not informed that his execution was to be carried out, though under Iranian law a 48 hour notification period is required.

So what good are the laws? These boys (Thats what they are...BOYS) should have been protected by international and local laws.
If they were adults when the crimes were committed and the law said they are to be executed I would say so be it.

As stumason pointed out the US only recently banned juvenile executions. If an American 18 YO that committed a crime at 15 was executed now would there not be an uproar??

[edit on 28/8/2008 by VIKINGANT]

reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 11:32 PM by Blueracer

I cannot condemn what they did in Iran. Maybe if we did that here, things would be a lot better.

reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 11:55 PM by justamomma

reply to post by VIKINGANT

That's great that you care, I guess. I suppose I am more concerned with the rights that are being violated here. Let that country deal with their problems. I guess being a part of this country, I am getting tired of us feeling like we should be concerned about other cultures and how they deal with things.

I will say that I was unaware of international laws like this and so in that sense, this thread has benefitted me bc now I have something new to look into... although I am opposed to such things as international laws.

Cultures should be able to deal with things in their own ways. If the international laws weren't there, there would be nothing to complain about. The little *snippers* shouldn't have done something that the laws of their country opposed, IMHO. Screw international laws. They are just there to make us all conform into a teeny tiny controlled little box. BLEH!

I still agree that they should have been hanged. 15 years old is old enough to know better.

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 12:06 AM by LiquidMirage

reply to post by VIKINGANT

Illegal Hanging???? The laws of a nation supersede your "international laws" pal. I'm really getting tired of uppity snobs sticking there 2 cents where it does not belong. These two criminals deserved the death penalty. International laws...shove them!

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 12:11 AM by VIKINGANT

reply to post by justamomma

International laws aside, they also broke thier own laws in not notifying the lawyer.
What is it about these boys that the Iranian authorities needed them dead so quickly. What happened to following procedure? Even after the execution being halted giving the lawyer an opportunity to arrange a stay, they went ahead with it anyway...
If Iran are not pulled into line, how many other countries will show blatant disregard for local and International laws.....It basically sets a precedent.

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 12:13 AM by VIKINGANT

reply to post by LiquidMirage

As I just said to justamomma their own national laws were disregarded as well.
They were determined to see these boys dead one way or another.

It is funny that somebody seemingly pro US military has no regard for International law....but thats another matter.

[edit on 29/8/2008 by VIKINGANT]

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 12:23 AM by justamomma

Originally posted by VIKINGANTWhat is it about these boys that the Iranian authorities needed them dead so quickly. What happened to following procedure?

What happened to countries letting other countries deal with their own citizens in whatever way they see fit? Why does everyone feel the need to take on the world these days? Do they not have family and such that can look into it? AT the VERY least they have fellow citizens who can take care of the situation should they so choose, no?

Are there no injustices taking place in your country at the current moment that you could be concerning yourself with? I mean, surely if you care so much about these two kids, why not care about ALL the injustices going on.. especially the ones that are taking place in your homeland. Why pick something random that is going on in another country?

Just curious

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 12:35 AM by VIKINGANT

reply to post by justamomma

Whatever happened to the 'global community'?
If this happened in the states everyone would be up in arms. Along with everyone here on ATS. If it happened here in Australia, it would be reported and commented on just the same.
There is plenty going on here as in the US that people ARE jumping up and down about.
Why are there so many threads at the moment about Russia and Georgia? Why was Serbia such a big issue not so long ago? Didn't the US use Saddams treatment of his citizens as an excuse to invade Iraq and have him executed? They should have been left to sort themselves out as well, but the US felt they needed to jump in. These examples are obviously bigger issues, but issues that should remain with the countries involved without international reaction based on your logic.

[edit on 29/8/2008 by VIKINGANT]

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 12:52 AM by justamomma

reply to post by VIKINGANT

America is involved to a degree in the Russia/Georgia conflict, not to mention it could affect the world. I am guessing that is why most are keeping their noses poked into it... I know it is why I am interested.

The situation btw Georgia and Russia is hardly compared to these two kiddos who committed murdered in another country.

And as I stated before, had they been American kids (especially being 15), I wouldn't argue with a judge who decided they should be put to death.

But again, the stand off btw the countries DOES affect the world.. what happened to these two kids, as harsh as it may seem but realistically, just doesn't have the same impact on ppl's personal life. Guess they should have kept their heads low and not committed acts of murder... maybe they'd still be alive.

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 02:06 AM by chise61

While i agree that Iran should have followed their own laws regarding execution in their country that's about the extent of my concern. If they were supposed to give 48 hours notice then that's what they should have done.

As far as the boys only being 15 years old when they killed someone IMO they were more than old enough to know what they were doing was wrong. I know that i knew it was wrong to kill long before i was 15.

As far as international law i think it's crap. I don't think any country, or international organization has the right to tell any country what kind of laws it can have. I know as an American i don't want the international community involved in our legal process.

I'm not trying to sound callous here, but i simply can't be outraged by two boys that commited murder being executed in a country that condones young girls and women being routinely murdered by family members for refusing an arranged marriage, refusing to dress a certain way, speaking to men that are not family members, or dating someone outside of their religious sect, etc.

International laws ? Yeah they have an international law that says you can commit murder under the age of 18 and never be executed for it, but where the hell is the international law that says you can't murder a girl because she refuses to dress a certain way, or marry against her will