Two teenage boys hanged in Iran , page 2

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reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 02:45 AM by HanAlec19

Originally posted by Bringer
Buncha B.S. They know right from wrong. what about the father and mother brother and sisters of the person killed. Noone cares for them, no they want the killers to go free slap em on the wrist F that.

It was a street fight, how do you know exactly what happened? How do you know the kid who was killed did not start the fight in the first place? or maybe they both went at each other? if that was the case fight is a fight, just like a war is a war, when you participate in it you agree to the risks. Don't join the army if you don't wanna get a shot. Personally I won't say anything because I don't know how it went down, it just not that simple.

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 02:59 AM by Supe04

I agree, the us do nothing about whats going on in there own back yard but feel a need to have a say on everyone else's. maybe if instead of going and enforcing there own law on other countries they fix there problems at home first.

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 04:08 AM by 44soulslayer

reply to post by VIKINGANT

The very premise of "international law" is a farce. How can there be a law without enforcement of it? And who could enforce international law without a world police?

This is a domestic affair for Iran to decide.

If you want to draw attention to unacceptable executions, why not highlight the hanging of homosexuals in Iran instead?

Murderers deserve their just punishment. Age is no mitigation to this. I can understand leniency if a child steals at age 13, graffitis a wall, etc... those are juvenile crimes that could be corrected through rehabilitation. Murder is a universal crime that any humane person innately knows is wrong.

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 04:25 AM by Harlequin

One thing you must admire Iran for is the swiftness of the justice system - wether it is right or wrong they don`t hang around , and the death penalty is applied for a wide range of crimes - the same crimes in the west the offender gets a cushy life for 10 years to be let out and do again;

murder is murder - they killed someone - doesn`t matter if it was intentional or accidental , in iranian law there is no difference - you kill someone the penalty is death, none of this 96th degreee manslaughter rubbish.

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 05:14 AM by Freeborn

I must say I am quite suprised at the lack of compassion shown here.

I am by no means a PC do gooder and I recognise that Iranian law takes precedent over international law. I also appreciate that it is not for us to pass moral judgement on another societies culture, (oh wouldn't life be so much better if EVERYONE lived by this at ALL times, alas.....? but thats for another thread methinks).
I also think it's probably the wrong place to discuss the rights and wrongs of capital punishment, again the topic of another thread I would have thought.

But let's put this into perspective; this was 2 teenagers who were in a streetfight when someone got killed.
FFS, when I was that age I was in a streetfight nearly every day.
Did anyone die, no, but they could have done quite easily.
Am I proud of it?
No, not particularly.
Am I unusual?
Not at all.
Have I grown up to be a reasonably well balanced, law abiding citizen positively contributing to society?
Most would say yes.

I firmly believe that we place far too much emphasis on understanding and rehabilitating criminals and too little time on compassion and consideration for the victims and punishment for the criminal.

Did these kids deserve punishing.
Too damn right did they.

But I ask you, too be executed?
A tadge excesive I think.
If it had been a premeditated act then I would not necessarily argue against it, but this was a tragic accident that occured during a streetfight between teenagers.

I think the other point the OP made was that Iranian law itself was not followed and that all subsequent protests were deemed detrimental to The State.
A very dangerous precedent.

[edit on 29/8/08 by Freeborn]

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 05:16 AM by Dulcimer

I wish we had justice like that here. What is there to complain about, that they were young? Old enough to kill it seems...

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 05:42 AM by Liamoville

Good on Iran! If they started doing it here then we might have less stabbings and shootings going on amongst kids.

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 05:50 AM by Justice11

Originally posted by stumason
I might add here, before the typical anti-Iran US crowd jump all over this, that the USA only banned juvenile executions in 2005. prior to that, there were literally dozens of 16 and 17 year olds on death row awaiting execution.

Since 1976, the USA executed 22 juveniles.

No anti-nothing anymore.I dont think the West has any wish to fight for any nation really.I sense apathy from people.A war here.Executions there.The West always to blame.Well if Obama wins that wont be a problem anymore.
We are taught these ideals yet no will to stand for them.Its disappointing.

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 05:54 AM by VIKINGANT

Originally posted by Freeborn
I think the other point the OP made was that Iranian law itself was not followed and that all subsequent protests were deemed detrimental to The State.
A very dangerous precedent.

Thank you! I cannot see why this concept was so hard for people to grasp...

Originally posted by Harlequin
murder is murder - they killed someone - doesn`t matter if it was intentional or accidental , in iranian law there is no difference - you kill someone the penalty is death, none of this 96th degreee manslaughter rubbish.

OK. So let me give you a hypothetical (As opposed to a Hype Pathetical)
Lets say you are driving a car in Iran and through no fault of yours somebody ends up in front of your car and is killed.
You are the driver of the car and are aware of the damage it can cause, and since "murder is murder" would you be the first to put your hand up and request the death penalty?

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 07:01 AM by Unnoan

when in Rome...

wasn't there a HUGE outcry when that American kid got lashed in another country awhile back?

just because children/adolescents are coddled in American society does not mean that mentality is transferred everywhere else. Egocentrism at its finest. Kids in America are given way too much in terms of rights, and unfortunately they are smarter and know when to invoke those rights. I welcome the day when something so insane jumps off to really thrust this into the limelight.

back to point - Its Iran. It was Iranian teens. It was Iranian law. Even if they mis-stepped a bit on procedure, it was still going to happen. I am sure their are some law students/lawyers around here who could tell you some cases where procedure screwed someone and never came to light.

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 07:15 AM by Dronetek

Originally posted by justamomma
OP, are you wanting us to care? This is their country, their teens, and their problem!

Funny how that stance is popular when talking about countries other than the US. Yet, none of you same people have a problem telling Americans what to do, whats wrong with their country or who they should vote for.

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 07:45 AM by wytworm

reply to post by Harlequin

Then you must also agree that the Prison officials that broke their own laws in killing an Iranian citizen should in turn be hanged as a result. After all murder is murder right?

I suggest that a bunch of the repliers on this thread would be far more comfortable in China where the penalty of death for everything is applied much more liberally and would clearly make them more comfortable than scary western countries that apply rules, critical thinking and logic...

[edit on 29-8-2008 by wytworm]

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 07:50 AM by Harlequin

reply to post by wytworm

They were acting out the lawful orders given to them by the judge - the person resonsible for the comunication `error` will be punished as per the law.

and LOL

apply rules, critical thinking and logic...

the same `scary west` that lets paedofiles in there very own comfy cell , with all luxeries paid for by the taxman , then released to do it all over again. or the serial rapists who do the same.

OK. So let me give you a hypothetical (As opposed to a Hype Pathetical)
Lets say you are driving a car in Iran and through no fault of yours somebody ends up in front of your car and is killed.

As a driver of a vehicle you are responsible of being in control of a lethel weapon - if you kill someone in any country whilst driving you are held accountable for your actions.

[edit on 29/8/08 by Harlequin]

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 08:03 AM by Freeborn

reply to post by Harlequin

If someone attacks you and in defending yorself you kill the person, should you then be sentenced to death yourself, after all 'killing is killing' and 'murder is murder'.

How many fights did you have when 15years old?

I for one had more than I care to remember, it was either fight or be tortured, I assure you.

I am aware that it is / was not the same for the majority of people, but who didn't have at least a few fights?
Bet there isn't many.

I agree we are too lenient with criminals.

I agree that it is Iranian law and up to them.
Does that mean that we should desensitize ourselves to events in other countries?

Yes, due process has not been followed at times here in our respective countries.
Does that mean we should just dismiss and accept it when it occurs in other countries?

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 08:18 AM by stumason

Originally posted by chise61
International laws ? Yeah they have an international law that says you can commit murder under the age of 18 and never be executed for it, but where the hell is the international law that says you can't murder a girl because she refuses to dress a certain way, or marry against her will:

Just pointing out for the sake of clarity that it seems you're describing Saudi, not Iran.

Iran is actually very progressive when it comes to women's rights, for the ME anyway. They have women in top jobs, both scientific and government, their women can drive, vote and go out without a male etc. Even the Islamic dress code is fairly lax, especially in urban Iran.

The situation may different out in the sticks, but then the same could be said of some western countries!

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 08:18 AM by Nineteen

The boys had a street fight and one of those involved was killed, however was this the intention the boys had or was it an unfortunate accident. Perhaps the victim had an eggshell skull and was unknowingly at high risk of dying should he knock his head. Was the death the result of misadventure or a deliberate act?

Personally I think mankind has no right to intentionally kill another, other than perhaps in the case of defending their country should it be invaded. So-called justice systems which impose the death penalty are completely flouting Divine Law..."Thou shalt NOT kill". Universal Law ensures that wrong doing is paid back in full measure. Those judges and executioners of this world must end their days in abject misery given their ignorance of the real laws of this universe

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 08:38 AM by justamomma

Originally posted by DronetekFunny how that stance is popular when talking about countries other than the US. Yet, none of you same people have a problem telling Americans what to do, whats wrong with their country or who they should vote for.

Damn straight I have no problem in pointing out the obvious when it comes to issues that affect me and my family.. you ARE correct. This does not affect me and my family. This is a personal matter btw the system in Iran and their citizens.

I wouldn't want citizens of Iran thinking they had some kind of say so in how things are ran in this country and so I offer the same courtesy. Their country, their problem.

Don't like it? Go become a citizen of their country and do something about it.

[edit on 29-8-2008 by justamomma]

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 08:45 AM by theblunttruth

Originally posted by VIKINGANT
reply to post by justamomma

Whatever happened to the 'global community'?
If this happened in the states everyone would be up in arms. Along with everyone here on ATS. If it happened here in Australia, it would be reported and commented on just the same.
There is plenty going on here as in the US that people ARE jumping up and down about.
Why are there so many threads at the moment about Russia and Georgia? Why was Serbia such a big issue not so long ago? Didn't the US use Saddams treatment of his citizens as an excuse to invade Iraq and have him executed? They should have been left to sort themselves out as well, but the US felt they needed to jump in. These examples are obviously bigger issues, but issues that should remain with the countries involved without international reaction based on your logic.

[edit on 29/8/2008 by VIKINGANT]

Exactly, a star for that. If it was in the US it would provoke outrage by the anti-US folk. I personally am pro- death penalty for murder, but its the hypocrisy that irks me, this is coming from a country who use Guantanamo Bay for propaganda purposes.

People this is a bad example of human rights abuses in Iran, what about the 40,000+ people executed during the revolution due to their political affiliation the thousands of women who had acid thrown in their faces for not wearing the hejab, the political prisoners in Evin jail....The list goes on. This instance though i actually agree with Iranian law.

reply posted on 29-8-2008 @ 01:07 PM by wytworm

reply to post by Harlequin

They were acting out the lawful orders given to them by the judge - the person resonsible for the comunication `error` will be punished as per the law.

Please cite your source for this? You seem to have insiders knowledge of the incident, the laws in Iran, their application, and the future! What are your credentials?

As a driver of a vehicle you are responsible of being in control of a lethel weapon - if you kill someone in any country whilst driving you are held accountable for your actions.

Where are you from? On earth, cars are considered to be modes of transport and are licensed/registered as such. There is a whole separate process for lethal weapons. Did you register your hands as lethal weapons with the FBI?