Christianity is Imploding!

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posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 08:34 PM
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Christianity is breaking down from within. I was always taught that religion and especially Christianity would be attacked by the outside world and would suffer great persecution by non-believers and that this would bring down religion or at least make it very difficult for it to remain out in the open. Those believing would have to “stand strong in the faith.”

Since I have been standing on the outside for a number of years I have seen that this is not what is actually happening. I thought I would put into words what I see happening and you all can contribute what you like.

1. Immorality is taking many members out, so it becomes difficult to maintain the guidelines that many Christian beliefs stand by. This would of course include; pedophilia, homosexuality that is considered debased by Christians, and the very high divorce rate. Addictions also play a big part. Again, it is hard to maintain a righteous standing if one cannot overcome their addictions, and this world is rampant with it. Many though, stay in religion and create a self-righteous façade, and to protect it; do a lot of performance or service work to draw attention away from their; sins under the carpet – behind a closed door behavior.

2. Societal views and influence. It is no longer “cool” in many of the eyes of society to be religious so it casts doubt on the believer.

3. There are countless different Christian views that play a big part in dividing the Christian masses and the adage; “We have the Truth and you are misguided!” I read a lot of books by many scholars and theologians. One particular Christian apologetic by the name of: Hank Hanegraaff wrote, “Christianity in Crisis.” I liked aspects of his discussion on why Christianity is indeed in crisis. He broke down all the reasons he believed this is so, and he blames other Faith theology for it.

“This cancer has been triggered by a steady diet of “fast –food Christianity” – a Christianity long on looks but short on substance.” He also says, “Under the banner “Jesus is Lord,” multitudes are being duped by a gospel of greed and are embracing doctrines straight from the metaphysical cults…Eternal truths from the Word of God are being perverted into bad mythology- and all the while Christianity is hurtling at breakneck speed into a crisis of unparalleled proportions.”

I found there to be some truth in what he said, but as is often the case – he attacked other theologians pointing out the splinter in their eyes but not the rafter in his own! Unfortunately, in reading his book there is the self-righteous and superiority attitude that the religious, and especially its leaders have, and one that won’t allow doubt.

4. Many are leaving religion because of the hypocrisy that one views while as a member. That was certainly my case. The so-called love that Christianity promotes is a counterfeit one. I have to mention; that we can certainly see that here on ATS. How often do we see a thread that starts out as one questioning religion, or controversies with religion, and it turns into a “bait & lure” routine? The OP can be bait to capture interest, while you are lured into the trap of discussing Christianity and its beliefs, and when it makes all the non-believers angry, the Christians scream – “Persecution!” It creates victim situations.

5. Many leave Christianity and other religions for that matter, to search for more accurate truth. Many like me are searching and wanting to learn new information. IMO the apocalypse has been going on for a long time. Apocalypse = a revealing, another words: new light or new information coming out. I have noticed and read many books that have been out the last couple of decades and many that are newer, that reveal contrary information to that of Christianity. Many of these writers are Biblical scholars, and some of them have had to re-adjust their beliefs in light of new discoveries.

Biblical scholar; Bart Ehrman wrote “Misquoting Jesus – The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why.” He started out an evangelical Christian but gained enough insight and information to cause him to question everything he had been taught. Being able to read ancient Greek, Hebrew and Latin and also given access to the ancient writings, gave him more than enough to grapple with.

It was quite astounding for him to learn that there were no original manuscripts of the NT! Everything in existence is a copy of a copy of a copy, countless times over, “What we have are copies made later – much later. In most instances, they are copies made many centuries later. And these copies all differ from one another, in many thousands of places…there are more differences among our manuscripts than there are words in the New Testament.” Imagine that! This caused quite a conundrum for him.

Even more so when he discovered that the doctrine he was raised with, the trinity, was added much later to the manuscripts by the theologians living in the 16th century and was a teaching not found in the earliest Greek copies of the NT. A faulty edition would be the foundation of the KJV. He acknowledges that most scholars know this information, but choose to overlook it, or have given up on it. He lists far more in his book, and I recommend all to read it who are interested and those who are not fearful of a challenge!

Add to this: the new understanding of the last couple of decades as to who the actual authors of the Gospels are (or at least 3 of them)! Some of the books in the NT are not written by said authors, and this includes Paul. So many discrepancies are to be found, now, with the Bible.

A last point from him; “I came to think that my earlier views of inspiration were not only irrelevant, they were probably wrong. For the only reason (I came to think) for God to inspire the Bible would be so that his people would have his actual words; but if he really wanted people to have his actual words, surely he would have miraculously preserved those words, just as he had miraculously inspired them in the first place. Given the circumstance that he didn’t preserve the words, the conclusion seemed inescapable to me that he hadn’t gone to the trouble of inspiring them.”

He and I differ on this! I believe that God inspired the Bible but not for the orthodox reasons that we are taught – and that is: to allow the misquoting of words and the dysfunction of its translations to be a tool that would separate the spiritual from the religious and would eventually cause Christianity to implode!

Let’s please keep this discussion civil and understand that we may not agree. I have been a fundamentalist in my past and can appreciate how hard it is to swallow what I researched and wrote. I am not interested in the religious view as I am very familiar with the reasoning and tactics (about 40 years worth). Actually I am interested in those who have similar findings so that it may broaden my perspectives even further. Many of you are very bright and open, and so I appreciate what you may have to say. Thanks for your attention!




posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 08:44 PM
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I disagree. The dogmatic church is imploding, the teachings of Jesus are becoming more clear.

Jesus lives in the consciousness IMO, and the physical return will be the anti-christ.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 08:51 PM
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You are witnessing the apostasy, the "great falling away" talked about. Are you surprised? You shouldn't have been. That is, if your church had actually preached from the bible.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


Very interesting post! Thank you very much for all your input, and the quoted texts from other authors, very interesting and insightful.

As a Christian, I witness many of the problems you have outlined. The church has become diluted, where we accept everything for fear of prosecution. Yes, the church is about accepting of those with sin, because we are all sinners, but once we give our life to Christ, our love for him will make us want to turn from our sin and repent. Yes, we may continue to sin because we are human in a sinful world, but that is what his grace is for, SINCERE repentance.

The church being full of hypocrisy is another good point. We say how much we love, and turn around and judge. It is a problem that needs to be dealt with if we want to be the real church of Christ, but unfortunately, many Christians get a "holier than thou" mentality, and think that they are without sin, thus can cast the first stone. WRONG. Essentially, Jesus was the only one who could cast the first stone, but instead, he told her "I neither will condemn you. Go, and sin no more."

But that brings me to my next point. This is where I have to disagree with you, civilly of course.

I made a post like this not to long ago.Christianity is about faith in God, and Jesus, his son who was sent to die for us, sinful humans as means for us to be with God and develop a relationship (not religion) with him. I believe that he gave us his word, through the inspiration of men writing the texts down, making what we now know as the "Bible". People often think that because we are all sinners, and imperfect, and since the bible was written by man, it must of been imperfect. Now, I am no Bible scholar, but I believe that the bible was written exactly how God wanted it. Someone who claims that the bible is false, twisted and wrong, yet claims to believe in God is heresy IMO. That is a complete lack of faith in God to begin with. God inspired the bible to be written, and it says that we need to trust in the Bible and what it says if we want to live like a Christian. The God that created us has all the power of the world in his hands, and could have complete control over any situation if he deems it suitable, and the English bible is no exception. Thousands of English reading people use to bible as one of their most powerful growing resources in Christ, I don't think a God so great would let it go flawed, and so many people that are devoted to him, would let them perish because the bible was wrong. It isn't.

But that is just my opinion. God is too great for him to let our second best learning tool aside from our relationship with him, to be altered during translation and by various other means, to completely set us along the wrong course, thinking that our relationship with him is real, when really it isn't.

Anyways, thank you again for the post. Great thread. I hope this turns out to be a good discussion we can all learn from!



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


No, Christianity is not imploding, although I wish it would. It has stood strong for 2,000 years through various persecutions, scandals, even debunkings. So do not expect it to implode.

What is more likely is that it will continue to break into factions which each group will put forth new interpretations of the bible.

Religions are like cancer. They breed somewhere and start to grow and continue to grow and will continue to grow until something stops it. Whatever it is that stops them, I wish I knew. Maybe alien landings will stop them lol. Maybe even that won't stop religions from continuing.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 09:28 PM
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Dude... the bible ends in the apocalypse, wouldn't Christians be used to things going to crap by now?

Just look for the divinity within yourself. The biggest con of most organised religions is the belief imprint that people are subjects to god, when in reality they are part of him. Her. It. God is the underlying energy matrix that supports consciousness and indeed physics, imho.

I do however agree that society is becoming demoralised, and people need to learn to reconnect with each other, and live that basic rule of moral coexistence: do unto others as you would have done unto you. There is a certain selfishness in modern society that won't work for it.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


Didn't really read your post but just responding on the title.

Christianity is dead(or on it's way out) just because, in general, no one follows "their savior Jesus'" teachings.

I guess because Jesus died for their sins they no longer have to be sinless. Just read the bible, for the must part, puts you into a dilema in following Jesus Christ, ie CHRISTIANITY! Do you follow the madness. They are "followers of christ" yet 99.999% do not follow him.

To anyone that actually can think on their own, present die hard christians are the most bizarre and confused people on this planet at present time.

It's just too ridiculous to even talk to so called "Christians" anymore. It's even more ridiculous to even discuss the topic. Most people are fearful cowards that are only capable of following. "Christians" are too ignorant to understand the duality of any type of christ-like figure. Cowardly people that would rather lean towards a fear inducing book(the bible), than inspiration from a completely fearless individual that was/is neither afraid to die or fearful from ANYTHING this world's superpowers has it in for them. Their SAVIOR they call him, but they are such cowards that they will basically say "I'm glad that guy died for MY SINS, now I can do whatever the hell I please".

Christians, generally speaking, are the biggest hypocrites this planet has ever seen.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by JimBeam

Didn't really read your post but just responding on the title.


And this is exactly why so many people blindly follow the church and its leaders...



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 09:56 PM
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Mainstream ‘Christianity’ as an institution is not imploding, indeed it’s exploding. Just look at the development of the mega-churches over the last couple of decades. The problem is that these churches do not teach true Christianity at all, but new age self help BS with Christian labels attached. Rather like how the church of Rome attached Christian labels to pagan beliefs. Fear not though, the remnant is ever with us, just don’t expect the masses to follow the truth, but rather their itching ears.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 09:57 PM
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Sorry it's here to stay. God controls all Governments Including the U.S.A, If we keep God in mind in everyday life. He will lead us to truth, And save us from the collapes of the U.S.A. Those who do not seek his wisdom and understanding will stay blind. The blind are the people like the A.C.L.U Join them if you think God if a lie. See where they take you (Child predators Should have all the rights you do) pillage and plunder. If you can come up with a better answer then Gods law, spill your guts. But If you read and tried to understand Gods point of view, you would see We all need him. If we gave our lives for the good of mankind like the bible actually leads us to... this world would be a beautiful peaceful helping place.
Thats just part of chrisianity, I know of no other religious group that instructs its followers to do that. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
flee from evil (your own evil heart inside you) forgive them they know not what they do ( because they don't understand the light). He is the only God who can reveal himself to you If you seek absolute truth ask God to reveal himself. And be listening to that still small voice, He is in the deepest part of your heart telling you what is right and wrong....But the blind will not understand or see it. If you want it you have to first belive (faith) is a quantum state we may never understand that is why we are saved by faith thru grace... If God appeard as a being now and did miracles, you wouldn't need faith you would know he is their. so how could you be saved? you would need no faith. thats why you are saved thru faith by grace. God is awsome look into the sky at night or into the sub atomic level. everything is perfect. there has to and is an allmighty.
He made a miracle by allowing you to be here alive and read this, but you reject the fack that a supreme being has made all this, would you rather him made you a rock, because its posable you may be that in heaven if you don't look for the meaning of live and take it as the most serious aspect in your life. of coarse he is here, just beyond visable light and spacetime. I mean think about it Im just one human among maybe a trillion over our existance, me being ignorant to all things before god would help in all ways possable to help any life i could make myself, how much more would he at the minimum show us how to be to keep our humanity going in the right direction If there is no God I would want it to all collapse in on itself.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 10:05 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


Sorry I didn't read before I first posted. But now I've read it.

I pretty much knew where you were going with this which is why I replied first. I agree 100% with you even though I was never religious to begin with. I base my opinion on personal experiences in life and interactions with people from many different backgrounds.

One book I read that opened my eyes was Why Christianity Must Change or Die by John Shelby Spong. Don't know if you read that but I that it was really good.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by WatchNLearn

And this is exactly why so many people blindly follow the church and its leaders...


I Already knew where he was going to go with the title which is why I gave my little rant first.

All paths eventually lead to the same place.

Christianity, just like must religion, is simply a tool used to control people of those in power. Most thinking people in the westerized world ultimately come to understand this.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by JimBeam
 


As I said some will be among the blind. Gods ways are not from this world...without god we are evil... And in noway have you gotten what God wants to show the children of light. (remember he has the power to pick whom he wants, And Righteously so even if we dont understand it whether you debate him or not, His truth will be forever. He will not allow it to fall... If anything he will fix it in due time. But its people who fight him, by being cowards and not bowing down ( It does say cowards will be agong the first to be trown into hell. hell meaning as though you never existed...( not tortured )



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by aftershocklegend
 



I agree with many of your later points asl, but if you really believe that God controls all governments, then you might want to read Dan: 10 again. It's called free will and dominion over the earth; God gave it to us, and we've given that power to Satan.

As to child predators having the same rights as you or I, do you not believe that false accusation exists? What if you were falsely accused? Would you not demand and expect your rights? Well, never mind. They're gone now anyway.



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 10:35 PM
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I will offer my perspective as one who is highly spiritual but entirely a-religious.

What I see around me is a parting. On the one side, there are the dogmatists, the religious ones who claim things like "My God is better than your god" (or something similar, like, "You will go to hell if you don't believe as I do").

But spirituality is bursting out, and some embrace it with a Christian perspective, allowing others to have differing approaches without judging or condemning them. Because of this, the dogmatists see it as Christianity crumbling.

Personally, I believe that Spirituality is far more in line with the message Jesus was trying to convey and that dogma was of little importance. The reason I believe this is so is because Spirituality is the waters of love flowing from inside outward, whereas... The past views and interpretations that have created dogma consider that the God-love begins outside of oneself and flow inward.

But if you read the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus suggests that we look inward to find the wellspring of Love/God/Heaven...

As for God... I am of the opinion that those who are dogmatists are like unto the blind men; God would be that elephant. And each, touching God with the dogma they have learned, see God in different ways.

Me... I see Consciousness as God. God, the Ultimate Experiencer. I am God, and so are you. All matter is merely different levels of conscious complexity.

But I guess my Spiritual views are rather off topic. [smile]

[edit on 8/24/2008 by Amaterasu]



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 

"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being assembled to meet him ... Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion [in the original greek: apostasy - 'great falling away'] comes first, and the lawless [one] is revealed, the son of perdition..." 2Thess 2:1,3 Check this out www.truechristian.org...



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by resistor
 


well romans 13:1 shows it in black and white, and Throughout the whole old testament (to convict us of wrong thinkings and doings) you can see clearly God sends wisdom to those who seek him and blinds imoral nations to be overthrown.
as for the falsly accused they may be oppressed here but no matter where you are you still have the opertunity to show people gods way... maybe there reward is greater in heaven?



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by aftershocklegend
reply to post by JimBeam
 


As I said some will be among the blind. Gods ways are not from this world...without god we are evil...


Is this so? I have no God, per se... Yet I do not believe myself to be evil... I honor all Consciousness, can count on my fingers the times I have lied, I care deeply, offer help when I can do so, uplift where I might...

Might you be a dogmatist?



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 


Humm... I don't think God needs me to expiriance any of this God would do fine without me... if i was of god I wouldn't say that



posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by aftershocklegend
reply to post by Amaterasu
 


Humm... I don't think God needs me to expiriance any of this God would do fine without me... if i was of god I wouldn't say that


Ok. [smile] If God is Consciousness experiencing all possibilities, God would be you saying such a thing. Though each of us is limited in what we see and understand, all Consciousness progresses to all perspectives.

Your perspective is valid from your perspective; my perspective is valid from mine. [smile]





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