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U.S. warship docks in Black Sea port with Georgia aid

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posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by manson_322
reply to post by projectvxn
 


my apologies for going overboard , i despise US genocides , imperialism,meddling and hypocrsiy

i don't hate american people , check my posts here :

www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 24-8-2008 by manson_322]


I am so highly offended by your post. You suggest sending biological agents to kill wife, 3 children ages 5, 3 , and 1, and myself. Maybe you don't like the us policies fine. You prefer that we be destroyed in a nuclear exchange, or arm veneuzla with biological cruise missiles. Sir, there is no excuse for what you have typed here. You are the enemy of all people. You don't consider any lives at all. You only care about your opinion.

[edit on 25-8-2008 by greysave]




posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 02:19 PM
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Relating to the Black Sea:

Breaking:

Russia cruiser to test weapons in crowded Black Sea


MOSCOW, Aug 25 (Reuters) - Russia's flagship cruiser re-entered the Black Sea on Monday for weapons tests hours after the Russian military complained about the presence of U.S. and other NATO naval ships near the Georgian coast.



"The fact that there are nine Western warships in the Black Sea cannot but be a cause for concern. They include two U.S. warships, one each from Spain and Poland, and four from Turkey," Anatoly Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of the Russian military's General Staff said.

On Sunday, the U.S. guided missile destroyer USS McFaul arrived with aid including camp beds, bedding, tents and mobile kitchen units, the U.S Defense Department spokesman Bryan. Whitman said.

Separately, the U.S. Coast Guard cutter Dallas has been dispatched with aid, while a third vessel, the Navy command ship USS Mount Whitney, is being loaded in Italy with humanitarian supplies for Georgia, he said.

The NATO ships in the Black Sea are carrying more than 100 'Tomahawk' cruise missiles, with more than 50 onboard the USS McFaul alone that could hit ground targets, reported RIA news agency, quoting unnamed sources in Russian military intelligence.

(AlertNet)



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by greysave
 


I really got to back up Manson on this one, the Russians beat the Germans hands down. We were a side show. Them Russians lost 100 men to every 1 of ours. 25 million USSR deaths to our 250,000. They beat the Hun, we went in when the winner was clear. The war was not a World War, it was a German Russian War. We cleaned up with the Japs.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by manson_322

Originally posted by Pootie
OR, in the case of DDG-74, I believe that the ESSM system can handle a few incoming super-sonic, sea skimming missiles if ti is not overwhelmed by 8 simultaneous incoming threats.

www.raytheon.com...

www.globalsecurity.org...

[edit on 25-8-2008 by Pootie]


it is designed to handle Sunburn supersonic sea skimmers , not Alfa or Yakhonts


I really like how you bothered to provide any basis for this claim. Do you work for Raytheon or the US military? I am quite curious as to where you obtained this vital information.

further, I have referenced two seperate systems deployed in the area: SeaRAM and ESSM.

[edit on 25-8-2008 by Pootie]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by manson_322
and if russian supplied bioweapon(smallpox,superplague) tech and missiles are stationed in Cuba and Venezuala , they would ensure that US populace will dead in less than 72 hours .....


What delivery vehicles will be used to deliver these weapons that will not be detected upon launch and intercepted? Let me guess, dirt strip Su-xx with supersonic cruise misslies will get just inside the delivery envelope undetected and let thier payload of two missiles each fly on a suicide mission.


[edit on 25-8-2008 by Pootie]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by chips
Relating to the Black Sea:

Breaking:

Russia cruiser to test weapons in crowded Black Sea


MOSCOW, Aug 25 (Reuters) - Russia's flagship cruiser re-entered the Black Sea on Monday for weapons tests hours after the Russian military complained about the presence of U.S. and other NATO naval ships near the Georgian coast.



"The fact that there are nine Western warships in the Black Sea cannot but be a cause for concern. They include two U.S. warships, one each from Spain and Poland, and four from Turkey," Anatoly Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of the Russian military's General Staff said.

On Sunday, the U.S. guided missile destroyer USS McFaul arrived with aid including camp beds, bedding, tents and mobile kitchen units, the U.S Defense Department spokesman Bryan. Whitman said.

Separately, the U.S. Coast Guard cutter Dallas has been dispatched with aid, while a third vessel, the Navy command ship USS Mount Whitney, is being loaded in Italy with humanitarian supplies for Georgia, he said.

The NATO ships in the Black Sea are carrying more than 100 'Tomahawk' cruise missiles, with more than 50 onboard the USS McFaul alone that could hit ground targets, reported RIA news agency, quoting unnamed sources in Russian military intelligence.

(AlertNet)


Great post, please keep us updated on this.

I've always wondered how weapons testing works in situations like this. It always sounds to me like they're announcing it so the test are not taken as a failed attack attempt.

I would consider myself to be pretty open minded to peoples views on stuff like this, however some of the posters here come off as if they was sitting on the lap of Bin Laden while wording their post.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by Pootie

Originally posted by manson_322

Originally posted by Pootie
OR, in the case of DDG-74, I believe that the ESSM system can handle a few incoming super-sonic, sea skimming missiles if ti is not overwhelmed by 8 simultaneous incoming threats.

www.raytheon.com...

www.globalsecurity.org...

[edit on 25-8-2008 by Pootie]


it is designed to handle Sunburn supersonic sea skimmers , not Alfa or Yakhonts


I really like how you bothered to provide any basis for this claim. Do you work for Raytheon or the US military? I am quite curious as to where you obtained this vital information.

further, I have referenced two seperate systems deployed in the area: SeaRAM and ESSM.

[edit on 25-8-2008 by Pootie]





I really like how you bothered to provide any basis for this claim. Do you work for Raytheon or the US military? I am quite curious as to where you obtained this vital information.


Because ESSM was developed to counter Moskit supersonic sea skimmer , ESSM was tested against Kh-31(NATO name:MA-31) supersonic anti-radar missiles , which USA purchased from Russia
Kh-31 has flight profile similiar to Sunburn , though its lacks manuverability compared to sunburn , the IR sig,RCS is greater in comparsion too ...




obtained it from Bharat Rakshak and sino defence,

according to Airpower Australia , the Alfa(NAto name:sizzler) , becomes detectable when it accerlates to Mach 3 ,



This is a very low-flying, fast missile,'' said retired Rear Admiral Eric McVadon, a former U.S. naval attache in Beijing. ``It won't be visible until it's quite close. By the time you detect it to the time it hits you is very short. You'd want to know your capabilities to handle this sort of missile.''

The Navy's ship-borne Aegis system, deployed on cruisers and destroyers starting in the early 1980s, is designed to protect aircraft-carrier battle groups from missile attacks. But current and former officials say the Navy has no assurance Aegis, built by Lockheed Martin Corp., is capable of detecting, tracking and intercepting the Sizzler.
www.bloomberg.com...


US has no missile that can replicate Sizzler flight profile ,behaviour and manuverabilty in tests

the only closest it has is the Kh-31 and the MQM-31 which potentially replicate Sunburn's behaviour in Tests


Originally posted by Pootie

Originally posted by manson_322
and if russian supplied bioweapon(smallpox,superplague) tech and missiles are stationed in Cuba and Venezuala , they would ensure that US populace will dead in less than 72 hours .....


What delivery vehicles will be used to deliver these weapons that will not be detected upon launch and intercepted? Let me guess, dirt strip Su-xx with supersonic cruise misslies will get just inside the delivery envelope undetected and let thier payload of two missiles each fly on a suicide mission.


[edit on 25-8-2008 by Pootie]


no ,longe range Cruise missiles like Kh-55 or much stealthier Kh-101(or Kh-102 its nuclear version) launched by trucks i.eGLCM(ground launched cruise missiles )
or intermediate or short range Ballistic missiles like Iskander



[edit on 25-8-2008 by manson_322]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by manson_322
 


You do realize that our ships do not rely on their own radar exclusively for threat detection and engagement? Airborn assetts "see" these missiles well over the horizon, feed the data down and allow for intercept... correct? A single airborne F-22 can "see" all of these launches as they happen and transmit tracking data. start with: APG-77 and ALR-94 From above RCS changes and becomes much larger but that is kind of moot since you will probably see it leave the launch site and track it from there.

Short of that I am sure there is a Global Hawk circling high above babysitting in the absence of an F-22, E-6B, etc.

You also seem to believe these missiles cannot be decoyed, jammed or their launch systems become victim of a pre-emptive strike. all assumptions and probably bad ones.

Yuo overestimate the only weapon Russia holds and totally underestimate ESSM and SeaRAM. From your Bloomberg article, you may not understand how the American military works... them asking for more money does not mean they are not developing countermeasures... Don;t take things so literally as if it were actually the case you would not be reading it.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by manson_322
no ,longe range Cruise missiles like Kh-55 or much stealthier Kh-101(or Kh-102 its nuclear version) launched by trucks i.eGLCM(ground launched cruise missiles )
or intermediate or short range Ballistic missiles like Iskander
[edit on 25-8-2008 by manson_322]


Within 15 minutes of a launch detection Cuba would cease to exist. A ballistic launch from SA would be suicide as we would have to assume it was nuclear and launch some of our birds.

what do you think we have over here? Slingshots?

[edit on 25-8-2008 by Pootie]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
reply to post by greysave
 


I really got to back up Manson on this one, the Russians beat the Germans hands down. We were a side show. Them Russians lost 100 men to every 1 of ours. 25 million USSR deaths to our 250,000. They beat the Hun, we went in when the winner was clear. The war was not a World War, it was a German Russian War. We cleaned up with the Japs.


What does this have to do with what I posted????



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by manson_322
 


Ill say it again, the Russians are not genocidal maniacs. They are not stupid or psychotic. They are not going to hit the US with smallpox or superplague, especially over the mess in the Caucasus. The Russians do not want to exterminate anyone, they are not Nazis. Putin is not Hitler.

You are talking about apocalyptic scenarios that simply arnt going happen unless Russia was invaded en mass by NATO and the World was at Total War.

If anything happens, what we will see is a 2nd Crimean War not World War 3 and definitely not the extinction of the human race over some small country the size of the US state of South Carolina.



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by manson_322



[edit on 25-8-2008 by manson_322]


What about my kids? Respond to that Manson. They deserve to die toe? Don't run away be a man. Defend your position. You propose attacking America with biological weapons because you don't like our policies. So we all should die here in the states. Don't you realize comments like that will strengthen the US resolve and prove to us Americans that we are on the right side of this. I don't see anyone threatening to Nuke Russia or release biological weapons. If anything Russia can't seem to deal with the fact that its Nuclear deterrent may one day be not effective. Its a fact, All weapon systems eventually have a counter. We don't make those threats because here we respect life. I refuse to accept your comments. There is nothing that you can say to make them correct. You don't respect life, and your way of life is no more moral or just. If anything I can say that you are an immoral evil person suggesting killing all of us in America. Who are you to wish for death of an entire country. You sir are a nobody thats who.

[edit on 25-8-2008 by greysave]



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 03:28 PM
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Manson the executioner has judged us all. The all seeing and all knowing manson has said all American's should be whipped from existence. Obviously his way of life is far superior to ours, and we should bow down. I'll tell my 3 kids to prepare for death because Manson says all Americans should die.

Oh by the way Manson, please don't come with more blah blah what America has done....What you suggest is no more just then anything the US is doing, actually it is far worst. You are an evil man who is going to hell.

Back on topic, Does anyone know what type of weapon systems it will test? Didn't that cruiser catch on fire from a missile shot from a Georgian patrol boat? Not saying that Ageis is perfect, but it was actually designed to counter saturation attack. What does the Russian navy have to counter a saturation harpoon attack?



posted on Aug, 25 2008 @ 06:50 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by greysave


What about my kids? Respond to that Manson. They deserve to die toe? Don't run away be a man. Defend your position. You propose attacking America with biological weapons because you don't like our policies. So we all should die here in the states. Don't you realize comments like that will strengthen the US resolve and prove to us Americans that we are on the right side of this.


heh for all we know, that may be exactly what is supposed to be doing. The reason I say that is after the long task of boxing Magic Mushram into a corner fifty times over, he managed to get me to actually begin seeing Bush in a more positive light and wanting to crush the UK next and be the very "jack boot" imperialist Nazis he so arduously begged for.




I wanted to live up to the reputation he was giving us in the same breath he was attempting to "get us to be more tolerant" . So I wondered are people like manson really using reverse psychology on all of us to get us to actually desire wanting to beat the crap out of these other countries they hail from who are supposedly our allies?

Then I thought Naaaah,, lets do it anyway lol



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 01:44 AM
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reply to post by XIDIXIDIX
 


are those really quotes from him? rofl


[edit on 26-8-2008 by dracodie]



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by dracodie
reply to post by XIDIXIDIX
 


are those really quotes from him? rofl


[edit on 26-8-2008 by dracodie]


Yeah, yeah that's his words his posted mutterings and these are tame compared to the things he was saying at the end of that thread



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 02:49 AM
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reply to post by Pootie
 


you are making just a hypothetical scenario

now you are talking CBG tactics , CBG are likely to face the hypersonic Kh-22MA(this one is hypersonic ,not supersonic like earlier 60's era Kh-22) , rather than supersonic sea skimmers Moskits, and in salvos it will be extremely deadly


Soviet tactics envisaged not only saturation fire with large numbers of Kh-22 and KSR-5 ASCMs converging on their targets simultaneously, but also intensive jamming support provided by specialised Badger variants, equipped in the manner of the US Navy EA-6B Prowler and US Air Force EF-111A Raven with high power tactical jamming suites, based on the "Azaliya" and later "Buket" systems. Obsolete turbojet powered K-10S / AS-2 Kipper ASCMs were converted into ECM drones, and equipped with Azaliya jammers, to create additional mayhem. At least one Badger variant was a specialised chaff bomber, with a bomb bay loaded with chaff and automated cutting machinery.
www.ausairpower.net...

Specifications (Kh-22MA)


* Length: 11.3 m (37 ft)
* Wingspan: 3.35 m (11 ft)
* Diameter: 0.9 m (2.95 ft)
* Launch weight: 5,900 kg (13,000 lb)
* Speed: Mach 4.5
* Range: 440 km (270 mi)
* Guidance: Inertial and active radar
* Warhead: 1,000 kg (2,204 lb) high explosive or 350-1000 kT nuclear


uccess of this strategy was doubted at the beginning of 70-ties when US Navy Fleet ordered F-14 Naval Fighters. Such fighter was directly developed to fight against Soviet anti-ship missiles launched from bombers. The F-14 patrolling in a great distance from the aircraft carrier forced missile carriers to enter it's "Phoenix" Long Range Missiles reach zone. The USA began to use E-2C "Hawkeye" Long Range Radiolocation Aircrafts based on the same aircraft carriers to notify the TU-22R Reconnaissance Aircrafts and to direct the F-14 Fighters on them. This should prevent notifying of the aircraft carrier itself and stop the strike before it had to begin. If the strike notwithstanding on all measures had been made the F-14 should intercept missile carriers and the missiles itself. The "Phoenix" missile was developed to intercept targets in 18 000 m range. This made able to intercept the Kh-22 in it's initial or final trajectory stage. Unfortunately Kh-22 main trajectory went out of the "Phoenix" reach limits.
tig.ludost.net...


Kh-22 could not be intercepted by Phoenix(hypersonic) long range standoff BVR missile

and as Admiral Rickover said , US carriers will survive only two days in a battle against Russia


About thirty years ago, my first boss, Senator Robert Taft Jr. of Ohio, asked Admiral Hyman Rickover how long he thought the U.S. aircraft carriers would last in the war with the Soviet navy, which was largely a submarine navy. Rickover’s answer, on the record in a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee, was, “About two days.” The Committee, needless to say, went on to approve buying more carriers.
www.d-n-i.net...


the biggest threat to the russian forces comes from american nuclear submarines , while the biggest threat the american nuclear subs will have is Russian Kilo class SSK sub ......

but in USa has major numerical advantage in dealing with Russian SSK(the most silent subs of Russian Navy) , so USA can use wolfpack strategy to take out Kilo subs operational in Barents/artic or black sea, but USa will also suffer massive losses due to Kilo SSK in the Barents and the Northern artic




Within 15 minutes of a launch detection Cuba would cease to exist. A ballistic launch from SA would be suicide as we would have to assume it was nuclear and launch some of our birds. what do you think we have over here? Slingshots?


so will most of the US populace cease to live in less than 72 hours , if Cuba/Venezuala retaliates to US invasion/nuclear strike with bioweapons




[edit on 26-8-2008 by manson_322]



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 03:19 AM
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Originally posted by greysave

Originally posted by manson_322



[edit on 25-8-2008 by manson_322]


What about my kids? Respond to that Manson. They deserve to die toe? Don't run away be a man. Defend your position. You propose attacking America with biological weapons because you don't like our policies. So we all should die here in the states. Don't you realize comments like that will strengthen the US resolve and prove to us Americans that we are on the right side of this. I don't see anyone threatening to Nuke Russia or release biological weapons. If anything Russia can't seem to deal with the fact that its Nuclear deterrent may one day be not effective. Its a fact, All weapon systems eventually have a counter. We don't make those threats because here we respect life. I refuse to accept your comments. There is nothing that you can say to make them correct. You don't respect life, and your way of life is no more moral or just. If anything I can say that you are an immoral evil person suggesting killing all of us in America. Who are you to wish for death of an entire country. You sir are a nobody thats who.

[edit on 25-8-2008 by greysave]




when did i say , that i want your children dead

when did i yell 'Death to America'


why i believe that Russia should provide bioweapons to Cuba/Venezuala is in response to NATO expansion , and ABM deployments in Poland , also , USA and saudis was the one who funded Chechen terrorists like Shamil Basayev to kill russians .... and not only that , USA also give asylum to Akmadhov , another major chechen terrorist ..., and worst , overtly backing Georgia in genocide on russian citizens in South Ossetia





Shamil Basayev and Al Khattab, the main Chechnya rebel leaders, were trained and indoctrinated in CIA and sustained by Pakistan’s ISI, according to Michel Chossudovsky. "Despite Washington’s perfunctory condemnation of Islamic terrorism, the indirect beneficiaries of the Chechen war are the Anglo-American oil conglomerates which are vying for control over oil resources and pipeline corridors out of the Caspian Sea basin." As fits the CIA’s list of job requirements, Basayev "has also been involved in a number of rackets including narcotics, illegal tapping and sabotage of Russia’s oil pipelines, kidnapping, prostitution, trade in counterfeit dollars and the smuggling of nuclear materials."
www.globalresearch.ca...



The country that wants Akhmadov extradited into their custody to stand trial for multiple murder charges is the Russian Federation, which has repeatedly requested that Akhmadov not be allowed to stay in Washington. Russia has been demanding Akhmadov's extradition since 2003. "He's a terrorist, there is no doubt about it," commented Aleksander Lukashevich, senior political counselor at the Russian Embassy in Washington. "We have proof . . . Our foreign minister has made Russia's position on extradition quite clear." "Harboring terrorists, their henchmen and sponsors undermines the unity and mutual trust of parties to the antiterrorist front," Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov stated in an address to the U.N. General Assembly in 2004. Russian President Vladimir Putin commented during a visit to India in December 2004: "We cannot have double standards while fighting terrorism, and it cannot be used as a geopolitical game." Akhmadov's presence in Washington is thus already a major irritant in US-Russia relations. Seen in this context, Akhmadov emerges as pawn in the Brzezinski clan strategy to set the United States and Russia on a confrontation course, a strategy they plan to impose on Obama, who is their clueless puppet in international affairs. Voters may remember the Chechen terrorists for their greatest atrocity, the September 2004 attack on a school in Beslan, North Ossetia, located in the ethnically diverse trans-Caucasus region of southern Russia. At that time, Chechen terrorists took hundreds of hostages in an elementary school. Before the terror attack was finished, more than 300 persons, mainly school children and women, had been massacred. The responsibility for this atrocity was claimed in a formal statement by the terrorist leader Shamil Basayev, a reputed CIA agent later killed by Russian troops. This infamous Basayev, one of the fiercest terrorists of our own or any other time, is generally acknowledged to have been the direct superior officer, mentor, and friend of Ilyas Akhmadov, the protege of Zbigniew Brzezinski now living at US taxpayer expense. Akhmadov himself admits his close relationship to Basayev, whom he first met in 1992. In 1994, when the Chechen secessionist rebellion began, Akhmadov was quick to join an infantry unit commanded by Basayev operating near the Chechen capital of Grozny. Akhmadov's other great terrorist sponsor was the Chechen rebel "president" Maskhadov, who named Akhmadov to the job of foreign minister which he still claims to hold, despite his claims to disagree with the terrorist policies of the government he continues to represent. Maskhadov was killed by Russian forces. Akhmadov, who demands Sam Adams on draft, not in bottles when he is thirsty, told Zbigniew's nephew Matthew that he no longer approves of what Basayev and Maskhadov did, but his complicity is beyond doubt. (See Matthew Brzezinski, "How a Chechen terror suspect wound up living on taxpayers' dollars near the National Zoo," Washington Post, March 20, 2005.)
www.rense.com...



posted on Aug, 26 2008 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by ufoorbhunter
reply to post by greysave
 


I really got to back up Manson on this one, the Russians beat the Germans hands down. We were a side show. Them Russians lost 100 men to every 1 of ours. 25 million USSR deaths to our 250,000. They beat the Hun, we went in when the winner was clear. The war was not a World War, it was a German Russian War. We cleaned up with the Japs.


Those "Japs" would have cleaned up with the Russians like they did 40 or so years previous to WW2 if it wasn't for the U.S. being dragged (or dragging itself) into the war.

The Russians fought on one major front that happened to be on their home soil for most of the time.

The Germans were fighting in Western Europe, Italy, Africa, and the east with Russia.

The Russians didn't win "hands down", they were lucky that Japan and Germany were incredibly stupid for a mistiming of their attacks.



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