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U.S. warship docks in Black Sea port with Georgia aid

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posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 03:24 PM
reply to post by marg6043

Wars are won on the otherside through willpower, that right there determines the fates of all sides included, the overall projection shoots out in all directions, each nation taking a lick.

But all Nations involved will feel the mental and emotional energy of their projectees.

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 03:35 PM
reply to post by menguard

And that is one reason why so far US will wag war to countries that will have not power militarily as ours like Iraq and Afghanistan but countries with nuclear power are out of the question unless a real modern Armageddon is the desirable outcome.

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 03:55 PM
To me this is just the media having fun with the emotional energy stirred up for the subconscious mind to be replayed in there dreams so they will lock it into place.

That's why wars are fought in the tabloids you want to have your nation backing you. I never knew a war where the word didn't get out first to promote it, then second to initiate it.

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 04:30 PM

Originally posted by magicmushroom
The Neocons who are controlling the US know that Russia/China/India are the next in line to be top dog.

Well, we have heard your opinion, now lets here your argument which would validate your ill-equipped claim. (Lets debate that further.)

China, as well as India have a significantly brighter future, however, they will not surpass the US by 2030, and probably will not surpass the US before the technological singularity, which would make the argument moot (This argument pertains particularity more to China than it does Russia and India, as those two are quite irrelevant, and will be for quite some time.)

Since the fall of the USSR, Russia has been rearming and rebuilding its forces and defences

They have tried, however, it pales in both size and scope comparison to the actual programs the US is and has been undergoing, such as FCS (Future Combat Systems) along with ongoing programs related to A.I. (something the US is far ahead in), “NBIC”, the “Global Information Grid”, nanotechnology, biotechnology, autonomous drones, “naval sea-bases and assets”, space weapons, weather modification, rail guns, lasers, etc.

Do not deny the undeniable.

Google Video Link

Let us also not forget that it was Russia who collapsed in the late 80s, early 90s. During the years of budget restraints, and cuts in Russia, the US continued pouring hundreds of billions of dollars into defense related programs, and has so for the past several decades.

thanks to the growth in its economy.

Russia is still far from being "well off". Also I find it hard to believe that a nation that equals $1.2 Trillion GDP is somehow superior, and a threat to a nation that equals a GNP of over $14 trillion.

Again, do not confuse your own envious wishes with reality.

China's economy is going throught the roof

It depends on how you choose to look at it. China has benefited from having its economy appear to grow even faster than it actually is due to in large part, an appreciation of the Yuan. This one-time benefit will not occur every year.

As prosperity is reached and maintained throughout mainland China, the growth rates will slow dramatically. There is no chance of the Chinese economy growing at double-digit rates in the 2020s. And for arguments sake, note that, If that were at all possible today, then Taiwan and South Korea would still be growing at that rate.

and they are spending massive amounts on their military. The US on the other hand has an economy in tatters and its military is already stretched in many places.

So, what say you when the Russian economy was in tatters throughout the 90s, whilst the US kept spending hundreds-of-billions of dollars?

That is not a relevant argument, but a poor argument on your part (as usual). The envious wishes of anti-americans like you, are being confused with reality itself.

Russia is ahead on the US on rocket technology

And your illegitimate argument for this?

and other weapons systems.


The US, NATO and the West have no known countermeasures to some of Russia's weapons systems.

Do not pretend to know anything of which you are ignorant of.

So much ignorance in one post (as usual, you never cease to amaze). Again, your blind gullibility to anti-US propaganda shows just how biased you as a person are. Your opinion thus, is unintelligent.

[edit on 24-8-2008 by West Coast]

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 04:42 PM
reply to post by chips

that `random` thing was aimed at the first post in this page not yours

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 04:47 PM
reply to post by Harlequin

Oh ha, apologies, good sir.

No problem.

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 05:44 PM
reply to post by West Coast

China and Russia operate in the Black. America is the worlds biggest Debtor Nation and is running 3/4 of a Trillion in the Red every year. So all that money that we've dumped into the military/industrial complex has brought us to the brink of bankruptcy. Russia could simply sell its Freddie Mac shares and refuse to sell its oil in Dollars and strike a serious blow to our economy.

As you said all those hundreds of Billions have given us lots of technical conventional capabilities. But that is EXACTLY what makes the situation so dangerous. Russia has stated many times that it will use its nuclear stockpile if necessary. Arrogant disregard of those warnings is foolish on every level. If we had operated like that during the Cold War we would not be having this conversation.

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 05:50 PM
reply to post by MikeboydUS

Despite what some are saying on here, I think this is a very smart move. Russia will only back down when you bully them. JFK proved this, as did Reagan. The more US military in the area the quicker Russia will slither back into it's dark hole.

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 05:54 PM
reply to post by manson_322

Please God don't ever let you find your way into a position of authority! You relish an Armageddon scenario? Do you pull the wings off flies for entertainment

Chill dude
To much coffee is bad for you

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 05:56 PM
reply to post by TXMACHINEGUNDLR

I don't know? Putin is a new unknown. He is clearly pulling the strings.

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 05:58 PM

Originally posted by chips
Well, to be fair, how do you think the Russians are going to respond to a U.S. missile 'defence' shield being placed very close to their border?

'Beyond diplomacy' is the answer.

If history is an indicator, they will keep talking tough and do nothing. That of course is an if.

Edited to say - I do see the contradiction in my last two posts. I'm so confused

[edit on 8/24/2008 by Blaine91555]

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 06:00 PM

"The destroyer USS McFaul is one of two ships the Navy will use to transport the aid because the two had permission from Turkey to transit into the Black Sea before the conflict between Georgia and Russia began, according to U.S. Navy officials"

No conspiracy here, move about your daily business.

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 06:03 PM
reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar

They need customers I think. We are at an impasse. We stop Chinese imports for instance and China, who's GDP is less than $3,000 a year per capita as it is, is toast. Lots of faulty logic being implied to paint these countries as wealthy. It's not what they manufacture or pump from the ground, it is buying power that defined wealth. The US or the EU could bring them to their financial knees.

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 06:13 PM
reply to post by Blaine91555

They have manufacturing capability and a growing middle class. That's all America needed during its Industrial Revolution. Now that the american consumer is toast, commodities will be the name of the game. That's why we are entrenched in wars and rumours of wars in the middle east and caspian basin.

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 06:27 PM
reply to post by magicmushroom

Our economy is not in tatters and militarily we are far from stretched.

We are still by far the largest economy on the planet, have the 2nd largest military, the largest modern military, and by far have the largest defense budget. We are simply without equal. The only force on the planet that would put up a good fight with us would be the EU. Russia and China's militaries are made up of mostly 40 year old armored vehicles and weapon systems. Sure Russia has a few hundred modern tanks and jets, but we have thousands of modern aircraft and armored vehicles.

But none of that really matters.

The reason it doesnt matter is that this will not desolve into Total War. NATO is not going to invade Russia over Georgia and Russia is not going to start a nuclear war over Georgia. We may fight in the Caucasus, we may fight in the Black Sea, we may fight in Konigsberg, and we may fight in the Balkans and Ukraine before this is over with, but none of that would be justification to have nuclear war. You have to realize that the generals and leaders of both NATO and Russia are not insane madmen just waiting to push the nuclear button.

People have been watching too many hollywood movies and reading books about WW3 that are simply not realistic. Russian generals and leaders are human. They have families, wives, children, grandchildren. They go to church and pray. They watch sports and celebrate holidays. They drink, party and dance. They are real people. They are not genocidal maniacs who want to exterminate the human race. They are rational people.

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 06:38 PM

Russian generals and leaders are human. They have families, wives, children, grandchildren. They go to church and pray. They watch sports and celebrate holidays. They drink, party and dance. They are real people. They are not genocidal maniacs who want to exterminate the human race. They are rational people.

Yes, but you could say the same thing about George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, John Bolton and Richard Perle.

And this part:

They are rational people.

...Well, deep down, who knows? Who really knows what any of them are thinking - on either side?

All we can hope is that you're right. But, as we've seen throughout world history (especially in the 20th century), our 'leaders' can be the most irrational people of all.

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 06:41 PM
reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar

I agree with you, for the last ten years our nation depend on foreign debt buyers to finance even our wars.

Pity, the same way that many years ago I said in ATS that China warfare would not be by military might but by its checkbook has come to reality.

We are owned by many nations in world.

The days of US Independence are far gone.

BTW Russia ranks number nine on our list of Foreign owned debt.

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 06:50 PM
reply to post by MikeboydUS

That is the attitude that makes things so dangerous. At least during the Cold War we had enough sense to Fear what could happen if someone misread the other sides intentions. This new found disregard of nuclear capability is dangerous beyond words.

As far as the economy goes, I don't know which economy your watching, but the US is in serious trouble. However, it's a topic for another thread and there are many that address it. It suffices to say that we will not be fighting all these wars and operating all this military hardware when we're broke. Same situation the USSR faced.

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 06:52 PM
WESTCOAST, you own navy comanders have said publicly that they the American Navy have no known countermeasures to Russia made misslies such as the Sunburn and Sizzler.

And as usual you believe all too easily the disinfo from your corrupt media machine. Russia may not have the economy of the US but its not borrowing 2 Billion $ a day just to survive is it. And other countries are dropping the dollar like a hot brick arent they.

I know you like to call me and others who dont brown nose, Anti American but you cannot get away from the facts can you.

The US military does have many capabilities but that dose not mean they cannot be beaten does it. In its most recent adventures it has had to face the armed forces from 3 World nations and 3rd rate forces at that so one cannot base the excellence or capabilities on those models can you.

The simple fact of the matter is that if the US tried to take Russia on it would fail, despite all the exoctic weaponry that you cream your pants at. Russia has those same capabilities as well and the US economy could not sustain such a war, it would not come down to US forces not being good enough it would be a case of no money.

Your own people are sick of war, sick of their corrupt Goverment and sick of the way the country is going. Yet I wonder why people with minds such as yours continue to think its all OK.

Whilst the US military buget is increasing by massive amounts the armed forces are actually getting smaller. Something like 54% of the Federal budget is spent on the Military at the expense of all other parts of the budget.

This is exactly what Russia did, trying to maintain a massive armed forces at a massive cost that finally caved in. The same is now happening in the US. Far more tax payers money is being spent on illegal wars than the Corrupt Goverment has stated and they continue to lie and decieve the American people.

posted on Aug, 24 2008 @ 07:01 PM
reply to post by chips

Our leaders here have flaws, but they are far from being genocidal maniacs. If they were genocidal maniacs the Iraq insurgency would of ended in 2004 after exterminating millions of Iraqis in concentration camps. 911 would of been responded with nuclear weapons and Bin Laden's skull would be sitting on the POTUS's desk on the oval office.

Hitler, Stalin, and Mao those were genocidal maniacs. Bush and Cheney are more like Polk and McKinley

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