Obama's anti christian speech

I am a Christian. I don't see anything wrong with what he says. There are many Religions in our country. He must speak for them all.

The bible as we know it was written by men and then edited to suit an agenda by politicians in rome. It is a magnificient accounting of biblical times, but as wrought with bias as any historical record kept by man.

Extremism exists in all religions...this thread is proof of that.

Acceptance and love of our fellow men (and women). This goes for different faiths as well. Abandon that premise of christainity and you can have the crusades or the inquisition.

This is the second time I have qouted West Wing this week (see the link) .....Bartlett on the bible. It might be noted for the sake of context that the Character of President Bartlett was a divinity student who opted to go into public service rather than the priesthood, but still devoutly Christian.

www.youtube.com...&hl=en&fs=1

[edit on 25-8-2008 by maybereal11]

Hm. My opinion is somewhat different. If separation of church and state is the issue at hand, then he must speak for none of them.

Hey - Abraham is a Patriarch to both Jews and Arabs. The Islamic religion holds him in high regard. He is considered the epitome of the true Muslim and the annual Hajj is a retracing of his, Hagar's and Ishmael's journey. Islam, which they of course consider the one true religion, is called the "Path of Abraham".

Give it a break on the anti-semitic claims. If his "affront of Abraham" insults the Jews, it insults the Muslims...you can't claim it was just aimed at the Jews.


[edit on 8-25-2008 by Valhall]

I'd like to see what Christians would be saying about this video if the Muslims made up 80% of this country and they wanted to make their doctrines and beliefs into laws. And it was John McCain in this video quoting the Qu'ran.

reply to post by AshleyD

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I don't think Obama is attacking christianity. It's religion in general. One look at human history should tell you why people feel apprehension towards religion. The very folks we know as "the terrorists" happen to be very deeply religious. It just so happens that 80% of americans are christian so christianity often takes the brunt of the blow.

well this is what wiki has to say on that:



en.wikipedia.org...

it's being subtlely pointed out by using isaac as the example, not ishmael. sometimes, it's what they don't say, rather than what they do say, that makes the point.

reply to post by Scramjet76

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Thanks for your post. Well, looking through history we can also see the atrocities and murders committed under secular/atheistic governments as well (tens of millions). So that cancels out that. The problems always have one common denominator: People.

Anyways, instead of getting into the always morbid debate of who killed more people, did more damage, and why, I would say the fact that remains is this: Separation of church and state. And it sounds as if you and I fully agree on that, even if for slightly different reasons. I'm against it because I would refuse to submit to another religion's deity if the tables ever turned and you sound like you are a against it due to the general reasons of anyone having to submit to a religion they are not a part of. Fair enough.

[edit on 8/26/2008 by AshleyD]

they've created a strawman (the democrats and republicans) in the guise of
the all powerful judeo-christianity, when this nation hasn't been judeo-christianity for a very long time and even when it was predominantly judeo-christian, it was still run by people who were deists. lol

oh the spectre of those islamic terrorists and christian fundies is a very useful tool for manipulating the masses.

reply to post by amitheone

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How is an observation of what is so.. and observably true.. offensive? Much less anti-christiant?

Well that's definitely a strawman's argument on the Isaac versus Ishmael point because Obama's statements were directed toward the actions of ABRAHAM, not Isaac or Ishmael. But you WANT TO CHARGE HIM WITH ANTI-SEMITISM so you'll perform mental masturbation in public to get it done.

You people are truly pathetic. But carry on, there's entertainment value in this.

Personally i believe that in any (multi-cultural or not) society that religion and race should not be a tool for politicians to manipulate peoples emotions to get them to agree with specific opinions and polices. we all know how much race and religion play a role in the American presidential race and it really shouldn't; by always raising the question of race or religion the country is in danger of provoking sectarianism attitudes, which he fairly, honestly and truthfully points out.

in my opinion he talks about Christianity in this context because Christianity has been used as a tool of attack and defence, i recall seeing a reporter interviewing some government official after 9/11 , the reporter asked weather there was any suspicion of a controlled demolition and the official said it was 'blasphemy' to ask a question like that, just one example of misuse of peoples faith in Christianity.

he mentions isaac, specifically. and i don't have a specific problem with obama. i have a problem with racism of ANY KIND, including your statement of YOU PEOPLE... just what people would that be? people with blonde hair? people with freckles? people who have an opinion that differs from yours? what, did i grow a third arm suddenly?



[edit on 25-8-2008 by undo]

anybody who thinks about it for longer than a few seconds, will realize this has never been an issue of religion or race. it's always been an issue of money and power. and i doubt seriously, that'll ever change.

as a result, the speeches of these official leaders, are typically laced with carefully placed concepts to draw the intended response from the target audience - those voters they hope to inspire to support them financially, in their campaigns.

if you still believe our votes actually count and that it has nothing to do with money, i have some nice mountain property to sell you in the everglades.

[edit on 25-8-2008 by undo]

reply to post by Lukewiththecomputer

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Thank you so much. I agree with some of what you say and disagree with other parts but am still very grateful you took the time to reply.



No need for rudeness and hostility. Passion and confidence in what you know or believe is an admirable trait but you just insulted a very nice and intelligent woman who is a great contributer to this site. You've also been condescending to other members in this thread. Yes, I know who you are but I don't care at the moment. Enough is enough. You are being downright nasty to other members who don't share your opinion on the topic.

[edit on 8/26/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by Lukewiththecomputer

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very logical and very true.
it's not the religious folk, the white or black folk, it's
agendas, plans within plans, and the means of achieving those ends
via careful use of the language

Completely Agree.

This is why you have so many stars... :-)

You just got one more

reply to post by mental modulator

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You are a believer. You are a full fledged statist and you are forcing me to pay taxes because you believe it is the right thing to do. I say 'you' as in the democratic majority so it isn't directed toward you alone.



It should be, but we are forced to do things against our own judgment and well being on a daily basis. You said you were a tax paying American, that's fine. What if I want to be a non-tax paying American? What if I do not want or need government to hold me up? What if the real religion is unadulterated obedience to government?

Obama is not a Christian, he is a Statist. He wants us to believe in the system. He wants us to believe in 'change' without drastic measures of changing anything. Actually, he wants us to believe in 'change' without any semblance of change.

For Obama to say that we should rule by common laws (he pluralized it) and logic means nothing. He is blowing smoke up our butts, and has no intention of following through.

reply to post by DINSTAAR

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and they all do that. there are little incremental changes, along the way, and the occassional ground shaker (legalized abortion), but overall, the change is so gradual, we hardly notice it at all. and usually those changes are safely tucked inside other more popular bills so they slide in without much fanfare or bruhaha.

ah well, life on planet earth. it's interesting at least.

[edit on 25-8-2008 by undo]