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Why won’t god heal amputees?

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posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 03:48 AM
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1 cor 13:[8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
[9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

when the bible was completed, these miracles were no longer needed. one could deduce the true faith by reading searching the scriptures.


So basically what you're saying is that people wouldn't believe the things they were being told by the individuals who actually lived through the events - so God gave them magic powers they could use as evidence to convince unbelievers that they were telling the truth...

BUT - when they wrote down their story (the same story people wouldn't believe when they heard it directly) God decided to take away the magic powers!

Is a story more believable when you read it from an anonymous source than when you hear it directly from the person who experienced it? That makes no sense.

Did you know MANY other Christian denominations disagree with you. There are millions of Christians who don't believe the "gifts" were ever done away with. Many think it's impossible to be a "true Christian" unless you've experienced the Holy Ghost directly through one of these spiritual gifts. For example, Pentecostals don't think you're "really" saved unless you've spoken in tongues or had some other "spiritual gift" (In my opinion, healing and prophesying are too easy to disprove... which is why most people just speak in tongues.)




posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 05:25 AM
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Originally posted by drevill
One day a farmer was walking home and heard screams.cries for help.

he shot off and found a boy struggling to free himslef from a bog and rescued him. later that day the boys father went to the farmers house to give him a reward as he was a nobleman.

The farmer refused the money saying he didn't want paying for helping. during the conversation the farmers son came to the door also.

the noble man asked if this was the father son and the farmer confirmed it was. The noble man offered as a reward to pay for education to the same level as his own son.

the farmers son went on to graduate from st marys hospital medical school.

years later the noble mans son was stricken with pneumonia but was saved by penicillin.

the farmers son was Alexander Fleming and the nobleman's son was Winston Churchill.

miracle in my eyes.


jesus also explained situations like this when he said what you reap is was you sow.

the example is very heart warming and its nice that things worked out that way, but its not a miracle, at least not the kind of miracles we are talking about.

dont get me wrong, im not saying god doesnt intervene, and that he doesnt guide certain things, but i think people today have taken a more selfish view to it.

the ¨gifts¨ themselves were done away with. the scripture is very clear about that. and its not to say that jesus will not heal again, afterall he promised he would on a grand scale. i dont know if the ¨later rains¨i applicable in this case, its a good theory but i dont know enough about it to say anything worth saying.

and i do believe god intervenes, but its different. obviously god would be directing the preaching of the gospel, afterall it is more important.

like jesus said, give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and he will never go hungry.

why would god step in perpetaully healing people and raising people if they are just going to get sick and die again?

what jesus and the apostles did was a forshadow of whats to come when everyone benefits from it.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
Did you know MANY other Christian denominations disagree with you.



fortunately for me, serving god is about following the bible, not popular opinion




There are millions of Christians who don't believe the "gifts" were ever done away with. Many think it's impossible to be a "true Christian" unless you've experienced the Holy Ghost directly through one of these spiritual gifts. For example, Pentecostals don't think you're "really" saved unless you've spoken in tongues or had some other "spiritual gift" (In my opinion, healing and prophesying are too easy to disprove... which is why most people just speak in tongues.)


ive been to a pentacostal church twice, never have i seen anyone suddenly speak another (real) language.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 





Did you know MANY other Christian denominations disagree with you. There are millions of Christians who don't believe the "gifts" were ever done away with.


Those arguments are an appeal to popularity and appeal to numbers. Both logical fallacies.

"Argumentum ad numerum (argument or appeal to numbers). This fallacy is the attempt to prove something by showing how many people think that it's true. But no matter how many people believe something, that doesn't necessarily make it true or right. Example: "At least 70% of all Americans support restrictions on access to abortions." Well, maybe 70% of Americans are wrong!

This fallacy is very similar to argumentum ad populum, the appeal to the people or to popularity. When a distinction is made between the two, ad populum is construed narrowly to designate an appeal to the opinions of people in the immediate vicinity, perhaps in hope of getting others (such as judges) to jump on the bandwagon, whereas ad numerum is used to designate appeals based purely on the number of people who hold a particular belief. The distinction is a fine one, and in general the terms can be used interchangeably in debate rounds. (I've found that ad populum has better rhetorical effect.) "


www.csun.edu...



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


good point

i believe there are rare circumstances he intervenes purely for the individual. however i think everything is done for the glory of God.

david



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


i would say thats a pretty fair statement. the way the laying of hands and such in SOME churches is completely unbiblical. is every church who does it wolves in sheeps clothing? probably not.

g-d can intervene in personal cases, maybe not on the level you see on say, youtube.

im still not convinced that the bible says the gifts are done away with, but you made a fair statement and i see nothing that needs to be refuted.

peace



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


logical fallicies, nah, its more of differing opinions on the same scripture.

to say that another person or in this case many peoples interpretation of scripture is wrong, and yours is right, is wrong all of itself.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by pureevil81
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


logical fallicies, nah, its more of differing opinions on the same scripture.

to say that another person or in this case many peoples interpretation of scripture is wrong, and yours is right, is wrong all of itself.


He used 2 logical fallacies in his argument. Just because the majority holds position "X", doesn't mean that position "X" is true.

The guy can present his argument without using fallacies I'm sure, well, let's just say "I hope".



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by pureevil81
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


logical fallicies, nah, its more of differing opinions on the same scripture.

to say that another person or in this case many peoples interpretation of scripture is wrong, and yours is right, is wrong all of itself.


He used 2 logical fallacies in his argument. Just because the majority holds position "X", doesn't mean that position "X" is true.

The guy can present his argument without using fallacies I'm sure, well, let's just say "I hope".

true, just because said amount of people believe one way, then others another way, doesnt make either true, so wouldnt it be easy to use scripture to come to an agreement ?

you just dont see that happening, and on either side of it its said that the other side is going against scripture.

in my mind at least i have came to a conclusion, something to remember is it has nothing to do with salvation, it has to do with individual pillars of faith yes. but not salvation.

thank you all, i will be watching this thread to see what points may be made from here on out, but i dont have much else to add, as this is the point where the discussion becomes stagnant.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 03:47 PM
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But those people think that if a believer doesn't have gifts then that is "proof" that they aren't saved.

Salvation is a free gift by the grace of God through faith in Christ's shed blood alone. Good works lead to rewards, but a man that "worketh not" still enters heaven with a "singed raiment".



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by pureevil81
 
Did you watch the 2 part videos I linked for preTrib?

There are some very good points made by Perry Stone. if not, would you watch and let me know what you think?

PreTrib didn't watch them I don't think.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by andre18
 



Andre - we all need to get real here for a minute. All this back and forth is getting us nowhere.

Either people are for the anointing or they are against it. Christ is the Messiah, the anointed one. Someone anointed is capable of receiving spiritual gifts. Someone that doesn't believe it's possible to receive spiritual gifts are anti-christ - they are against the anointing. There is no in between - you are either for it/him or against it/him.

You are getting many opinions here and all I would ask you do is to keep an open mind. You have people saying gifts aren't around and you have people testifying that they are.

Do you think it's possible Jesus could anoint someone in this day and age? Are you for the anointing or against it? What do you think is possible? I think with God all things are possible.


[edit on 1-9-2008 by Myrtales Instinct]



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



PreTrib didn't watch them I don't think.


I'm looking for some time, NOTurTypical. I have not forgotten your request.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


Miriam, you said:

like jesus said, give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and he will never go hungry.


Jesus didn't say this. It is not in the Bible.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by PreTribGuy
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



PreTrib didn't watch them I don't think.


I'm looking for some time, NOTurTypical. I have not forgotten your request.


Cool, cool. Also Perry is the best prophecy teacher I have ever watched, when you finish with those videos I'll give you some links to his discussions about the end.

He's the best I have ever seen. Thanks PTG.



posted on Sep, 1 2008 @ 09:14 PM
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PreTribGuy:

As far as the debate in this thread, I found this just now:


www.biblebelievers.com...



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by PreTribGuy
reply to post by miriam0566
 


Miriam, you said:

like jesus said, give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and he will never go hungry.


Jesus didn't say this. It is not in the Bible.


your right actually... why did i think he did?



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by pureevil81
 



Originally posted by pureevil81
im still not convinced that the bible says the gifts are done away with


Indeed you are right, for even Jesus himself said:


John 14:12
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.


Jesus was approached by his disciples as they were NOT able to heal a boy, and Jesus was able to make him well. They did not understand why they were not able to heal him.

And Jesus response was this:


Matthew 17: 19-20

20 And he says to them, Because of your little faith: for truly I say to you, If you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, Be moved from this place to that; and it will be moved; and nothing will be impossible to you.


Peace


[edit on 2-9-2008 by HIFIGUY]



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 03:34 PM
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I think to answer your post is that no one has big enough faith. Remember this The disicples and Jesus knew who GOd was the disciples was shown though Jesus that Jesus was God son. They knew that Jesus has all power in heaven. Jesus did the healing cuz his was the altiment faith. The disciple did it cuz they knew that Jesus gave them that power.

not a single personl now in days KNOWS that Jesus and God are alive. We follow God by faith pure blood faith. But our faith is not strong enough to know faith. I believe someone with all faith in him can do those mericles you say. Remember Jesus also cure blindess and restored arms too.



posted on Sep, 2 2008 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 



fortunately for me, serving god is about following the bible, not popular opinion


Did you know MANY other Christian denominations follow the bible? – the bible is open to interpretation, deal with it.


ive been to a pentacostal church twice, never have i seen anyone suddenly speak another (real) language.


My point is they don’t believe the gifts were done away with, it’s their belief over yours.




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